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    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    As to the practical impact of that consideration on this thread and The Wrap, I think they can coexist. By way of example:

    The Wrap
    on Thursday


    Talked North Korea with Rusha...
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    *Odd* as in exactly what I have come to expect. IF NK was so easy to fix, it would have happened years ago.
    The only hope I had on the point was that NK might use the regime change to shift gears. So far...

    And PJ...
    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Trump makes it look easy.
    Makes what, exactly, look easy? I'd be happy to see NK actually begin to change how they do business, but have they really?

    Elsewhere, Rex was ruminating...
    Quote Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post
    So, Trump submitted his financial disclosures about paying for Stormy Daniels...and immediately got referred to the Justice Department by the Office of Government Ethics for any possible investigation.

    I know, shocking, right?
    That this administration still has an Office of Government Ethics?

    Who heads it? (someone is going to Clinton drop here) The ghost of LBJ?


    Started a thread where people can reflect on their TOL experience, which led to...
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    9. Has your exposure to the views found here contributed to your having a more/less favorable impression of atheists?

    In question #8 you said "religion," and in question #9 you said "atheists," so you're setting an evaluation of a belief system side by side with an evaluation of individuals. If I were to answer to "atheists," I'd say the ones I've encountered on TOL are intelligent and civil. But to maintain continuity with your previous question, I'll say I have a neutral impression of atheism.
    I think religion is much more of a piece than atheism, especially to atheists. That's what accounts for the distinction. I recall when I travelled in those circles for years it was frequently a bit like a turn on Faulkner's southern racist, who hated the race but frequently loved the individual. That struck me as the general tone among people like me at the time who simply found the idea of God a misplaced bit of wishful thinking.

    On the other hand, I was curious about how people who came here with a particular religious perspective responded to seeing other perspectives rooted in other faiths and methodological approaches in relation to their larger view. I wondered if the intimacy would widen their lens. So I thought it would be better to speak to both in different frames of reference. Thanks for responding thoughtfully.

    And...
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    3. If you could change one thing about the way things are here what would it be?

    Equal enforcement of the rules.

    6. What was your primary reason for deciding to stick around here for a while?

    Intelligent debate regardless of disagreement and forum friends.

    10. Are you more or less emphatic in your beliefs of in any particular belief you came to TOL with as a direct result of your time here?


    Yes ... both. I have a deeper understanding and empathy of those dealing with religious,racial and gender issues/bias. I have less tolerance for the persecutors.

    While the Marxist thread made me consider that...
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    A funny thing about people who believe property is theft. They keep trying to take it from other people.

    Tomorrow? Night baseball.
    Last edited by Town Heretic; May 17th, 2018 at 07:36 PM. Reason: tense shift
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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  3. #3152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    So my mother had a birthday today and we had lunch together. It's always good to get the family around the table. The older you get the more value little things take on and so much of what ate away at time that once felt inexhaustible falls away and into unimportance as the limits of that time approach.

    I was a sports nut for most of my life. Of late I find myself watching the playoffs in baseball, and the finals in the NBA, but almost nothing of the regular season...and not nearly as much of the regular season NFL as I did even a couple of years ago. What surprises me is how it doesn't bother me. How easy it is to let go of it.

    There's a lesson in that, I suspect. I'm going to be applying more of it in my present, which is where I've been living of late. And I suspect that's a good thing.
    Yep, sports and politics take a back seat now for me. Life is too short. My Mom's birthday was May 16. Pretty close.

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  5. #3153
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    The Wrap
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    Quip had pop culture covered with...
    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    I heard the opening line from Arctic Monkeys' I Bet You Look Good on the Dance Floor...but then I heard Laurel.


    Before Rex surprised me with...
    Quote Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post
    So, Trump submitted his financial disclosures about paying for Stormy Daniels...and immediately got referred to the Justice Department by the Office of Government Ethics for any possible investigation.

    I know, shocking, right?
    That this administration still has an Office of Government Ethics?

    Who heads it? (someone is going to Clinton drop here) The ghost of LBJ?


    Noted a less surprising conclusion for must to jump to...
    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Once again my trap is sprung right on cue. Notice how quickly and voluminously Barbie has his replies formulated.

    What might we deduce from this?
    Any number of things. One reasonable deduction would be that he's aware of the tactic you've employed because it's routinely used by people on your side of the issue and for that reason he's addressed and considered it prior to the post, is prepared to respond. It's the most likely conclusion and one many of us have experienced ourselves on other issues. I mean, if an anti-theist trots in on the usual show pony I have half a dozen things waiting for him on the point.


    Eider kicked in on my TOL question thread...beginning with his take on adding a new rule and why he stayed...
    Quote Originally Posted by eider View Post
    No....... that's like asking me if I would like to add a new rule to the peregrine's hunting technique.


    To learn more......
    Now that's about as good a reason as I can think of for most things.

    I didn't know that Christianity could produce some of the folks I read here.
    It doesn't.

    While fool suggested...
    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    Limit new threads to one per day per user.
    That's a good one.

    No microwaving fish in the break room.
    It was the one time...ONE TIME.

    Caught up with the one sentence movie reviews...
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post

    Sherlock Gnomes
    : elementary.

    Peter Rabbit: hare raising.

    Paddington 2: couldn't bear it.

    A Wrinkle in Time: but barely a ripple at the box office.

    12 Strong: minutes, all in the credits.

    CM took up the gun argument...
    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    While I do favor some additional gun access changes, I do not support restricting access to semi-auto rifles.
    Then I'd suggest not much will change and the mounting death toll will eventually alter your position or overwhelm it with the majority of the populace. The numbers are already moving in that direction.

    I am also not naive enough to believe that more restrictive laws will solve the problem.
    It's not naive. It's empirically true, which is why the numbers line up as I've set out repeatedly. Universal, tough gun laws have real, measurable impact on public safety and gun violence.

    It is a problem with hearts, not tools.
    It's both and always has been, but the latter is more accessible and cheap and the former hasn't grown up enough to make that latter a non-issue.

    Ending with...
    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    Laws are only as effective as peoples willingness to follow them.
    If you can't buy an assault weapon it doesn't matter that you don't like the law and don't want to follow it.

    California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country yet they have had a terrorist shooting.
    And some people who are on the pill will become pregnant.

    New York, Chicago and D.C. all have very restrictive gun laws and equally high gun violence rates.
    New York has the third lowest rate of gun deaths among the 50 states. Illinois is 8th in terms of gun laws, according to the Giffords Center, and 16th lowest in terms of gun violence and death per 100k of its citizens, despite having the outlier of Chicago, awash in violence and poverty for some time now, which impacts the figures.

    In any case, our Canadian and European don 't see the same level of gun violence. Canada's laws are not as restrictive as Europe's but the violence rates are less. But they have other problems.
    Looking at the data compilation from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (link) at 2016 and deaths per 100k:

    US, 3.85 Canada, .28 Australia, .20 Denmark .14
    United Kingdom, .07 Germany .12 France, .34
    Italy, .38 Ireland, .17 Spain, .14 Sweden, .19

    Inside the U.S.? Alabama, with some of the weakest gun laws in the nation, averaged 6.76 deaths by firearm per 100k...New York, by comparison, had 2.89 deaths per 100k. And all of them are woefully over the European averages. Our safest state? Hawaii, coming in at 1.58 per 100k. It also has some of the stronger gun laws in the nation.

    ...Everytime I ask people for a list of laws that would have prevented a shooting I get a list of laws that ALREADY exist in most cases.
    Then you're asking the wrong people.


    While Must was getting all Musty in the reminder thread...
    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    It's so easy for you people to blindly fear hate whatever you're told to, that it's scary.
    Spoiler



    I almost feel sorry for you.
    Other things he almost feels: questionable looking melons at the supermarket and that tingle that would have told him his shampoo is working.

    I can hear the crying in your posts. Try to heal.
    So he can't quite feel, and he's hearing things.

    Tomorrow? Angry Marxists and who knows what else?
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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  7. #3154
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    The Wrap
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    The Marxist thread was heating up when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    A funny thing about people who believe property is theft. They keep trying to take it from other people.


    Waxed nostalgic with red...I mean AB...
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Despite there being an obvious bias in play, there was still plenty of room for passionate debate that other forums would shut down at the merest hint of disagreement. It had a good mix of people and many that are sorely missed nowadays.
    Though in fairness there are still a number of sore people in the mix...so that's something.

    A bit or repartee with anna left me to conclude that...
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    We're a regular Laurel and Hardy, aren't we...I mean if they were dramatists.

    Esset tried to revive her Golden Age of ad hom, but...
    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    Your favorite actor is?
    You, of course.


    While over in the gun control thread...
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy
    Town, please. Let me educate you. No one dies before their time
    So far, so little. Next time you get a nasty cut don't forget to ignore it.

    gun, knife illegal hexican, negro with a sledge hammer..death is universal bud. Get used to it.
    And wrapping it up with a non sequitur was a bold choice too.

    Continued with gen on the topic of reasonable restraint...
    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    ...For the ordinary citizens that would be eligible for the Militia, most of the ones living today believe in rights and reject duties...Nobody that rejects the duties that come from being a citizen of the United States should have the rights that come with that citizenship.
    You have a duty to obey the law. You have the right to live as you please within it.

    ...Any number of founding thoughts have required our attention and alteration over the course of time, from slavery to the place of women within the legal framework. The original reasoning and the changing nature of the carnage modern weapons bring with them should have any reasonable person reconsidering the line of what is and isn't within the nation's interest when it comes to gun laws.

    Heard an advertisement today for a candidate for office. One of the things said by the spokesman caught my particular attention. He said, "X is pro-life and pro-NRA!"

    I no longer believe those two statements are compatible.

    Talked systematic concerns with JR...
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    ...If we were to judge the quality of all justice systems by the amount of crime that exists in the nation the system belongs to, we have possibly the absolute worst system possible.
    If we judged the greatness of painting by how much paint was used we'd have very different museums too.

    Making it harder to sin just means that the criminals will try harder to sin.
    By that reason we should erase the law altogether and men, free of its inducement, will live more saintly lives. Come now.

    The answer IS NOT "how do we make it so that people can't commit crime," it's "how do we make it so that people WON'T commit crime."
    Rather, the law restrains those who can be restrained by conscience and convention, makes commission more unlikely for those who fail in that but have sufficient self-interest to promote lawful dealings given the nature of consequence, and can through imposition, as with laws forbidding certain guns, make particular criminal acts greatly less likely. And that's demonstrable, not hypothetical.

    Why have so many laws? How is anyone supposed to follow so many laws without having plenty of lawyers with you at all times?
    Easily, which is why the overwhelming majority of Americans, many with not much formal education and none in the law, manage it every day of the week.

    Let's set up a hypothetical world in which I'm a normal citizen who turns criminal and I want to take over a plane with a gun..Which of your many laws prevented me getting on the plane with the gun and ammunition and making demands with it?
    The one that prohibits you from legally possessing the gun you used, that bars its entry into commerce and ready availability.

    It doesn't matter how many laws you make, people will go around them to commit crimes.
    Some doubtless will. But again, this isn't about perfection, it's about making certain acts/crimes less likely to happen, reducing the death toll. We can do that. We can do a lot better than we're doing.

    If judges were the ones doing the questioning and judging, court cases would take MINUTES, not years.
    And a great deal of injustice, human error, and bias would pass for justice. The more you concentrate power the more you invite its abuse. True of kings and true of judges. It's a bad idea, which is one reason we have juries and appellate courts and why almost no one is trying to get a monarchy in play anywhere in the world where republics have come into being..

    Tomorrow? Nun control, silencers for the lambs, and the follies of youth...
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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  9. #3155
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Said anna, with a sideways glance...
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    In other words, I've learned to use the ignore function the way it's set up to be used.
    I like to think that I've improved the system.

    I also sometimes like to think Wednesday is a color.
    And you won't believe the Tom foolery and fallderall that unleashed. Check it out. Follow the yellow brick link. You'll see.


    In the gun thread, after I noted the moral complicity of the NRA in an ongoing tragedy...
    Quote Originally Posted by Yorzhik View Post
    Is this just hyperbole for someone you see as a troll? or do you really believe this?
    Both his trolling and the moral failure of the gun lobby are as real as Christmas. I don't have to believe in them, only observe them.

    JR got creative...
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    ...what law prevents (as in, makes it completely impossible) for a criminal to go around such laws?
    So you only pass laws you believe criminals can get behind?

    Here's a better question that answers the concern behind yours: why do you think that in countries where criminals are no more inclined to follow the law we have dramatically reduced gun violence and incidents of mass-shooting when tough, universal gun laws are put into play?

    And eventually started looking for any port in a shinola storm of horses and carts, beginning with my use of clip instead of magazine...no he really did that...
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    So you intentionally used the wrong word? I call that being dishonest.
    But then, you call what you're doing argument, so who knows what you mean by that?

    That's twice now that you've not paid attention to what I said. I specifically said "damage their hearing while defending themselves. That generally means that they're not out hunting...
    I chose to address the better argument, the one you should have but didn't make...At home I can understand the idea, because shooting indoors is going to be deafening with any sort of real firepower. But in that case I'd say you should keep muffling headgear handy. Let the bad guy go deaf or to his knees when you fire that shotgun, assuming your aim is on par with your argument. It couldn't hurt.

    And even so, so what? I think it would be a tactical advantage to use a silencer when hunting, so that you don't scare off all the animals when you fire a shot.
    So, to borrow from you, you don't know much about hunting...or don't realize how loud a silenced weapon still is. You're not gaining a hunting advantage with the animals. It's strictly about your ears and their proximity to the part of the gun that makes the racket, and that protection can be accomplished by other means that don't make police officers irked and impair their ability to do their jobs.

    As to why our cousins do so much better where criminals still don't love obeying the law:
    Because they have far more severe punishments than we do here in America.
    No they don't. They're more lenient on the whole. Google it if you don't believe me. It's part of why they have a lot less of their population in prison. Their approach to drugs alone, on average, saves them a lot of space and money.

    On scrapping our current system of law...
    You still might be wondering how does this address "gun control."
    No, because draconian fantasies don't address gun control. There will be no return of the kings. Concentrating power in fewer hands remains an invitation to injustice and eliminating appeals and prisons invites miscarriages of that cannot then be recompensed.

    Back to the OP then:

    The point remains that we can, using any number of models (that differ in both approach and impact) tested for decades by every other Western industrial democracy, significantly impact gun violence and mass shooting. The rationally indisputable truth is that even when we weak sister the attempt on a state level we do better than states without that level of control, which is why New York can lose around four citizens to gun violence while Alabama loses double digits (per 100k). None of that is coincidental. I've linked to the hard data and pools of it for a number of you, from state to international data that confirms everything I've told you.

    The rest is what we do or fail to do within the strictures of the law.

    gen offered another perspective...
    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Creating "gun free zones" without supplying armed guards is what turns schoolyards and concerts into killing grounds.
    No, allowing easy access to weapons that can kill dozens in moments is what does that. All you need is the eventual evil or diseased idiot with enough cash in his pocket and the carnage is on its way. I'm not an advocate of gun free zones. They're too small to matter and don't address the actual problem of access outside of those zones. Rather, use the models we have on hand and make a deliberate choice to dramatically reduce gun violence in our lifetimes.

    And I'll wrap the latest in a flurry of AB attempts to address the Laura controversy...
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Younger people are more prone to hearing higher frequencies that can also alter the sound.
    They're also prone to bad haircut choices. Exhibit A: everyone's senior yearbook.

    "Magic eye" pictures took me a while to get and relaxing was the key to see the actual picture instead of concentrating so much on it.
    I had the same problem with the Magic 8 ball.

    Sound is different. If a piece is in A major, say,
    Like that could happen. A major what?

    then no amount of anything is going to alter it's key unless manipulated...
    You know what else is easy to manipulate? The Trump fan base. Not sure about the key though.

    I know it isn't sharp.

    Tomorrow? Parrots that are strangely deceased, inadvertent illustrations, and who's afraid of the big bad Canadians?
    Last edited by Town Heretic; June 13th, 2018 at 03:58 PM.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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  11. #3156
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    Beginning with the rebuttal of an old nag...
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    An atheist friend of mine recently said, "The problem with you Christians is that you don't realize God is just a crutch."

    I answered, "The problem with atheists is that they don't realize they're crippled.

    And continuing with a horse of another color when intojoy wrote, in a now gilded cage (sorry, no links because it's closed)...

    Originally Posted by intojoy
    I kicked a bum out of Starbucks today.

    You're a bouncer at a Starbucks? That can't be a tough gig.


    He was sitting outside, peed straight thru his pants. I proceeded to get a hose hit him over the head and spray him down. He left without incident. A white bum in Hawaii. Whatís this country coming too?
    Illegal vigilante tactics? Or Mittyesque prose fests. It's a toss-up.


    Filed under...
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    We spend all day on Twitter.
    Twitter, where attention spans go to die.

    On the sudden disappearance of a good many posts...
    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    What happened to the rest of the thread?
    I think a dingo ate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    Perhaps it was removed?
    Dingbat is a completely different word, but thanks for the contribution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Maybe the tweets overburdened it?

    That would be, "Bingo!" But I like it.

    What if all of this is an attempt by Knight to introduce TOL to the Mandela effect?

    Tried to shake up the music thread...
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Another song that would fit on a "Bond" film...
    I actually did a take on the classic Bond theme, adding lyrics to it.

    Bond-ba-ba-Bond-Bond-Bond-ba-ba
    Bond-ba-ba-Bond-Bond-Bond-ba-ba
    Bond-ba-ba-Bond-Bond-Bond-ba-ba
    Jimmy! Ba-ba-Bond...

    I'm still waiting to hear back from the studio.

    And I would have too, if it weren't for a couple of meddling kids...
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    When did you call? 1967?
    What year did they stop making rotary phones?


    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    They might have out taken it to the "cleaners"...
    Shaken, not pressed.

    Then into asked...
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    If Iím racist, how is it that I can easily share aloha with black people?
    I'd think the goodbye use of that would be easy, but Faulkner answered your larger problem a long time ago. Assuming you do and can do that, I'd have to say you resemble his Southern racist, by showing so much obvious contempt for the race, while finding affection and regard for the individual.

    It's not a new problem.

    And...
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Well coming from my past I donít think many here on TOL couldíve achieved financially what I have had they gone thru the same trials...I literally went from skid row to become a self made millionaire.
    There you go. Feeling better? Now how does a guy with that sort of wealth have a home where two dudes can just walk up to the front door to talk about some goddess?

    Maybe thatís why I have a sense of humor that Anna doesnít have.
    Anna has a great sense of humor. Maybe your judgment is as suspect as your narrative.

    The story of the 2 goddess of heaven cult that came to my door for example. Whatís wrong with threatening them?
    Besides it being pointless, rude, and illegal? Shoot. Not a thing.

    I forgot about that moment but Iím happy to remember it thx to Annaís lack of humor/common sense. Iíll bring that up at the next get together with the guys.
    I'm sure you will. Maybe sprinkle a few zombies in the next one, just for flavor.

    While in one of the gun threads...
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    And that's correct---the murder rate in the United States dropped more on a percentage basis, after the Australian assault weapon ban + confiscation, than it did IN AUSTRALIA. So what does THAT tell you?
    That if you skew a consideration hard enough you can almost make data say anything you want...between 1997 and present date, since the imposition of laws taking the weapons most successful in mass shootings out of easy access and commercial circulation, there have been 0 mass shootings in Australia.

    Here are the death tolls in the U.S. from mass shootings since 2013 on the left, with a / plus the number of dead and then the same numbers in Australia each of those years. You can figure out the comparative rates if you like:

    2013: 339/ 467 dead. Australia: 0/0 dead.
    2014: 325/ 364 dead. Australia: 0/0 dead.
    2015: 371/ 469 dead. Australia: 0/0 dead.
    2016: 477/ 606 dead. Australia: 0/0 dead.
    2017: 427/ 590 dead. Australia: 0/0 dead.

    And over in the "divide Cali" thread...
    I'm leaning more toward consolidation of the states we have. I think that at minimum we have at least 5 states too many. Possibly as many as 10. I mean, just look at New England, won't you? Which, as it turns out, is the area's new tourism slogan.

    Started my part of an open conversation on religious liberty in relation to discrimination...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    So new guy on the block and I haven't had time to follow all this thread yet but I call myself a civil libertarian so civil rights is an important thing to me including religious liberty.
    Do you believe that a baker's religious liberty is threatened when he is forced to provide to the public that which he holds out to the public for sale? Because it has always struck me that any law permitting me to deny a customer service for a non-business reason is a de facto segregation law waiting for popular enforcement.

    Tomorrow? Styx and stones, when TED talks, and it's bedtime for Hitler...
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    What year did they stop making rotary phones?

    Do you still say "dial the number?" I do.
    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    I wish you as many assault weapons and ultra-high-capacity clips as you can safely secure when you're not carrying them, for you and your family and loved ones and neighbors, Town. Blessings.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Do you still say "dial the number?" I do.
    But it's only time to worry when you find yourself listening to make sure one one else is on the line.


    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I wish you as many assault weapons and ultra-high-capacity clips as you can safely secure when you're not carrying them, for you and your family and loved ones and neighbors, Town. Blessings.
    We have more guns per than anyone and we're the least safe democracy on the planet. So I'll wish you a world free of their taint and impact and refer you back to the thread in question if you want to continue the conversation on that with me. I always appreciate discourse on points that matter.

    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    But it's only time to worry when you find yourself listening to make sure one one else is on the line.
    Happy to say that was before my time.
    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    Wandering around on the internet produced...
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Just watched a TED program by an expert on lying that may or may not have taught me a great deal.

    Had a brief but productive exchange on gangs...
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I don't know, but I'm curious, what fraction of murders in the US are 'gang-related.' Certainly, a lot of murders occurring in cities infested with gang activity must be 'gang-related,' you would think . . . .
    The National Gang Center, citing FBI figures for the years 2007 to 2012 had gang related homicides as comprising around 13% of all homicides annually.

    And a little on rearing children...
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I don't grant my kids permission to scold adults for light errors. Not only that, I don't permit them to say anything at all about light errors, to anyone, not even to their peers---that's their peers' parents' job, not my kids.'
    Jack told me that he had a friend who used a word I don't even believe adults should find in their mouths. He said that he then told his teacher. I said to him, "If you want to be a better friend, tell your friend first and try to influence his behavior. I know how all of you (kids) are about telling on one another, but do you think that when you do that first you're giving your friend the chance to do better? And shouldn't that be your first concern? Do you think you're telling your friend that you care about them by going straight to authority?"

    Then the clock struck in into's odd pathology thread and...
    Quote Originally Posted by eleventhhour View Post
    I agree. Liberal Democrats are truly PATHOLOGICAL and DEMENTED PERVERTS.

    Well, if I didn't believe you believed that the caps would be a convincer.

    I personally believe that they should not have the rights to vote.

    And while I have you, how often do you set your clock back in a given year?

    Talked race and religion with Lon...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    How were you on the recent ruling regarding the man that does custom art on cakes?
    I'd say the notion that a cake is art is largely a contrivance and contrary to common sense, an attempt to serve an old whine in a new skin. What a thing is made and sold for should determine what that thing is and a cake is meant to be consumable goods first and foremost, to be eaten. Can it be endowed by its creator with artistic sensibility? To be sure. But if simply being able to put a creative something into a work that isn't aimed at being admired for its own nature without any other necessary element then what can't fall under that umbrella? What odious bigotry can't then find an ally by that dim light?

    When I noted sincere religious belief was underpinning some fairly racist practice:
    The Mormons believed blacks were under a curse. Darwin did too.
    Then they were both fools at different times, though the Mormons have abandoned that one...Darwin too, I'd imagine.

    To me, if you have to pass a law on what you 'should do' as a decent human being, the law doesn't make you a decent human being, just twists your arm.
    The law isn't aiming to make a bigot a decent human being. Its aim is to see that he can't empower that indecency, harm others with his shortcoming in the public square.

    And on the oft raised BET gambit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    There is no White Entertainment Network.
    Sure there is, and until relatively recently in this country it was all the other programming. That's what made Cosby such a powerful thing. Heck, in living memory the idea of an interracial kiss in a tv program provoked outrage. So if you don't want quotas or even government attempts to promote inroads and you find blacks trying to do it for themselves problematic, what the heck are you saying, pragmatically.

    Some things just happen without any desire for hurting anybody and, possibly, nobody 'should' feel hurt.
    Sure. Racial discrimination isn't one of those things. Neither is white's only tv, which is what we had for most of its existence.

    I don't particularly feel hurt whenever I'm not invited to a hockey game.
    I'm usually offended when I am invited.

    Anytime you MAKE someone do something... I just don't think I've accomplished anything at that point.
    You couldn't be more wrong. You've accomplished something significant. You've pulled the practical teeth of the racist. You've taken away the societal stamp of approval and put that stamp on equality instead. Ask Sonnie Hereford about how upset those Alabama racists were when he and a smattering of his friends shattered segregation in public schools here.

    Then this happened...
    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    AB is in the top 10 hypocrites on TOL. Somewhere near #7 or 8, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Yeah, I never seem to make the top three in anything...

    Hang in there, AB. Given enough time, who knows?

    Not musty, that's for sure.

    Tomorrow? What's left of the right, going sub rosa with ethnocentric nonsense, and fun fish facts for the halibut...
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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    Talked about borders and PC with JS...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You didn't notice all of the politically corrects who are crying crocodile tears because children were being separated from their parents at the border?
    Anyone who isn't upset over that has bigger issues than some term largely concocted to whitewash poor upbringing and worse manners.

    ...Matthew Wossner, a poli-sci professor at Penn State, had it right to my mind when he said the left is too quick to slather any policy in ideological opposition touching upon sensitive issues of race and gender with charges of sexism and racism, and that the right is too quick to label legitimate criticism as political correctness.

    Both errors have the same outcome, stifling public speech and meaningful debate.

    And education with CS...
    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Education is the responsibility of the parents, if they cannot carve out enough time in a week to educate their children, they have the wrong priorities. No money involved.
    Anyone who thinks an untrained parent can make a child competitively advanced in the ways fundamental education by professionals can doesn't understand either that educational process or the world those children will be entering. Every other first world nation does, and they advance their interests by educating the next wave of our competition.

    So I'm not appealing to an altruistic spirit, much as that spirit is served in principle, but to a fundamental self-interest.

    So, of course...
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Anyone who thinks a random stranger is a better bet to raise their child is either horribly deceived or worse.
    Anyone who confuses a highly trained professional with a random stranger is only slightly more confused than the person who confuses the work of a teacher with raising their child.

    A response to another poster had me pondering the sort of bait some use to fish around here...
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Lovely red herring you're dragging.
    Fun facts about that fish:

    Its season used to run with elections, but now you can catch them year round.

    It's frequently found in the less fresh waters around Washington and state capitals.

    The less educated you are the more likely you are to serve and buy it.

    Though frequently relied upon for sustenance by large groups of people, it is almost impossible to swallow individually.

    Goes well with copious amounts of alcohol.

    Smells worse when you think about it more, though in any event it is always more than a little bitter.

    While AB's speculation about a running joke...
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    How has he not bored himself to death with it by now?

    Maybe he had an aneurysm.

    That would explain a few thousand things...

    Does make you wonder how he remembers his password though.

    It's probably misspelled.

    And then there was...
    Quote Originally Posted by eleventhhour View Post
    Hello. We all know here are many, many individuals in most all political and religious organizations who are wonderful, honest and caring people. There are so many good Catholics and Liberals who are part of the organiazation, perhaps they were born into it or were brought in by a friend or loved one but do not understand or suscribe to the organizations PATHOLOGICAL and demented views.
    See, that started off half-way decent, but then you veered into the crazy lane and that's why we all have to pay higher premiums.

    Here's an alternative: a lot of people just fundamentally disagree with you (and everyone at some point) about some fairly important things. They don't have to be lazy thinkers or blind followers, only people who come to different conclusions than you.

    This is the greatest commonality and CORE bond that Liberal Democrats, Catholics, and Muslims unite in and have in common. A total perversion that seXually draws them together in a frenzy of lust, perversity, and depravity.
    aCW is still posting, so I can't say that's the craziest post of the year, but if Chrys comes back and takes a swing that one is easily in the hunt.

    Before things got serious...
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    I'd go for the sweet and salty.
    A great comedy duo back in the days of Vaudeville, but they never got to make the film debut that might have launched them because of the rating system.

    Tragic.

    Sweet went on to design Valentine's Day cards. Salty was arrested several times on morality charges in and around the Boston area before being elected to Congress.

    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    All I wanted was a snack...
    All I wanted was a pony...

    It's a hard world out there, anna.


    Tomorrow? Murdering the truth about racial relations, let's not sing like that birdy sang, and someone reads a poem, of all things...
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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    Someone brought up an interesting happening...
    Two senior Trump administration officials were heckled at restaurants. A third was denied service.
    Though in fairness, stupid isn't a protected class.

    Florida GOP Attorney General Pam Bondi required a police escort away from a movie about Mister Rogers after activists yelled at her in Tampa
    She was treated at a local hospital for third degree embarrassment and a serious dislocation of her funny bone.

    Passers-by gather to take photos in front of the Red Hen Restaurant on June 23, in Lexington, Virginia. White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Saturday that she was booted from the Virginia establishment because she works for President Donald Trump. | Daniel LIn/AP Photo
    Maybe a new employee misread the, "No shoes, no shirt, no service" sign.


    While anna's sharing led to another, if related, consideration...
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Surprise, surprise..

    U.S. Opposition to Breast-Feeding Resolution Stuns World Health Officials
    A resolution to encourage breast-feeding was expected to be approved quickly and easily by the hundreds of government delegates who gathered this spring in Geneva for the United Nations-affiliated World Health Assembly.
    Too many boobs in Washington.

    Addressed national origins with CS...
    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    ...there is a difference between a settler and an immigrant.
    If not to the people who might already be living in the place where "settlers" immigrate.

    A settler establishes a new community in a new land.
    Frequently someone else's. Then they form a government and establish property rights.

    Nice work, if you can get it.

    Before noting a reasonable point..
    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    America was not founded by native Americans.
    No, the land was inhabited by them. We didn't discover America. We came across a lot of land and slapped that word on it.

    Then we told the rest of the world it had been "discovered."

    If someone "discovered" your wallet and wrote a title on it I'm betting you wouldn't find that a compelling argument for their rights to it.

    They did not create our society.
    Or Belgian waffles.


    Talked guns with Idol...
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    ...I was right with you up til you invoked 'gun' as the problem.
    The problem of gun violence in this country is a problem of parts. One of those parts is the accessibility of guns capable of firing more than six rounds without a manual reloading, along with accessories that transform already absurdly lethal instruments into de facto machineguns. I don't have a problem with guns, only with certain types of guns and accessories that transform them. I love my shotguns and my breech loaded rifle. I'm fond of my 9mm, but I'm ready to give it up. I can accomplish any reasonable need without it.

    Then...
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    We've no idea what the future holds
    It takes a lot of imagination to entertain a hypothetical where a force beats our combined armed and nuclear forces and is upset by a lot of Bubba's with guns they bought at the Walmart. And it only takes a news report to see what the present holds and trends are regarding mass shootings and gun violence.

    The same reasons writ large why nations wouldn't agree to denuclearize, is why we the people oughtn't budge when gun haters like you
    I'm a gun owner, not hater. I've been clear on my position in support of the 2nd from the start, as well as my own participation in that right. Now back to the problem in your attempt to parallel. Nuclear weapons are necessary for Russia because they can be overwhelmed in a conventional war by China. There's no real parallel here. I suppose if criminals outnumbered the lawful citizenry and were all carrying semi automatic and automatic weapons it would be different, though to be a meaningful parallel the criminals would have to outnumber the rest of us with a close to 7 to 1 advantage instead of being outnumbered by 2 to 1 if we include all criminals of any sort, instead of the violent sort, in which case our advantage grows.

    And taxes with JR...
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    You're not addressing my argument.

    I said socialist programs inherently violate God's enduring command, "thou shall not steal."
    I directly addressed your belief. It isn't an argument. Theft is an operation of law, not some Amish guy shaking his fist at taxes that pay for a tank.

    In order to claim that socialism is not antithetical to Christianity, you need to explain how forcibly (in other words, you'll be punished if you don't comply) taking money from one person and giving it to another is not theft.
    Ask Caesar, or better yet, look at Christ's command to give him his due and then try to tell me that Jews were paying their taxes because they really, really wanted to.

    Continuing on the latter point...
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Here's the thing. You can't compel charity, or it's not charity.
    Then there's no such thing, because God compels it and always has.

    If someone comes up to you and they are poor, you should help them. But it should not be forced.
    It's a commandment by the most inherently coercive force in the universe. Or do you think the idea that what you fail to do for the poor you fail to do for God is a suggestion of sorts.

    And on the notion that public education is abandoning of parental responsibility

    Trying to suggest education is the province of the parent is in the sense you use it as mistaken as suggesting that because the health of a child is the parent's responsibility they should practice medicine on the child instead of seeing to it that the child has a doctor.

    Touched on the EC/representative democracy dissonance...
    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Power that is held exclusively in towns with one million plus population is tyranny.
    The problem with that is that the Senate and House will still exist. But the president should represent the people, not a de facto gerrymandering.


    Along with matters theological...
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I doubt that you find it odd to say that murder is a graver sin than is a white lie, Town.
    I'd say that as a pragmatic matter, it is worse to kill a man than to lie to him. The latter robs him of the truth, the former robs him of any hope to approach it. But given any sin is sufficient to warrant my separation from the perfect and good, it's a distinction that matters more to me than it could to God, whom I will not meet save by grace.

    I'm omitting a good deal, but consider it read and I appreciate your sharing your particular beliefs, whether or not we are of one mind.

    Tomorrow? Could be...
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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    Weighed in on matters political, starting with the nature of American culture...
    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Can someone define just what exactly that term is supposed to mean?
    ...more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    A melting pot...
    In every kitchen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxfire View Post
    In a word;

    "Diversity"!
    Which is where Trump U grads thought their diplomas came from.


    Took a minute for some One Sentence Movie Reviews...
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Ant Man and Wasp: proof that good things can come in small packages...with huge budgets.

    Incredibles 2: less incredible is still a lot of fun (and for the whole family, no less).

    Skyscraper/Rampage: the nation hasn't seen this much Johnson fatigue since Magic Mike.

    When...
    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    Calm down Nancy. Insulting others doesn't reflect well on you.
    So it's like you posting in general.

    Considered the importance of a good frame...
    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    So? The Pony Express reached more peeps than ToL.....back in the day.
    If you yelled out of a window in the 70s you reached more people.

    If you sent a letter to the editor and only the editor read it in the 80s you reached more people.

    If you thought about something in 90s you reached more people.

    Context. It's what's next.


    Kat added up the cost of congressional undersight with...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    We have to stop that, or call the president King!
    That's it in a saneshell.

    And left me considering the problem of going it alone, spiritually...
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    ...The problem with going it alone and ascribing our thinking to out of the box insight is that without an external check mistakes or a want of context can become a singular sort of orthodoxy and it's own contextual box, with no likely way out.

    On marital rape...
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    If there’s no physical abuse it’s not rape.
    If you force someone to have sex against their will that's physical abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Sometimes a wife calls it a rape just because. Even when it wasn’t. And to top it off if he enjoyed it all the worse.
    Sometimes the moon is aligned with the sun in a way that largely blocks the sun from view. But mostly it doesn't do that.

    Talked term limits with Stripe...
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Couldn't they come up with something better?

    After four years, I'd be just getting the hang of a new job, then I have to leave?

    Ridiculous.
    Right. That's why Grant was so terrific, because he had two full terms.

    And GW, of course...can't leave him out. Two glorious terms really transformed the office with that one.

    Obama, he had a lot of time in office. I know how highly regarded he is by the right.

    Tomorrow? Lambs, Lions, and the power of misplaced confidence men...
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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    Beginning with the DP...
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Without Christ being put to death for our sins (for the wages of sin is death), no man could ever be saved (Psalm 49:7-9, 15).
    And at the same time he illustrates the problem with the DP beyond that moment, as he was innocent.



    And Idol said...
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    You are such a Democrat.
    That will come as some surprise to most of the candidates I've voted for in my life.

    I oppose the death penalty on less philosophical grounds. We have and likely will continue to kill innocent men and women in the name of justice. That should be unacceptable. Unlike being falsely imprisoned, there's no restitution for someone deprived of every right. If we feel that strongly about the infringement we should protect against our own fallible capacity to err on the point.


    With a manatee break, of course...
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Watching a PBS World production with Jack and, of course I'm doing rifftrax for the fun of it...at one point the subject is manatees and the narrator is describing how in the winter it's crucial for the manatee to find really warm waters. At first he speaks to the majority heading for hot springs, then...

    Narrator: But some manatee are heading for a surprising hot-spot.

    Me: A small nightclub on the outskirts of Tampa.

    Jack: And they dance there.

    Me: It could happen.

    Before JR continued with...
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    ...God used that miscarriage of justice [Christ's trial and execution] to reconcile the entire world. Just because it was a miscarriage of justice does not mean the death penalty is bad.
    It's an illustration of the inherent problem of a penalty that cannot be met with recompense. If we falsely imprison a man at least we can make some restitution and release him. My first argument against the DP is in that problem. We do and know that we do what we have no right to [inadvertently put the innocent to death]. And given the irreversible nature of that failure it is unique.

    If there was something wrong with a death penalty for crimes that are worthy of death, then God's standard of justice would not include death for the penalty of sin. It's as simple as that. Am I wrong?
    You are. The law served a number of purposes. One of those was to illustrate our inability to meet the demands of justice, our need for intercession and mercy. God doesn't have to change anything about His nature to alter His relation with us (see: covenants).

    ...if a man does not fear death in this life, how will he ever fear eternal death and separation from his Creator in the hereafter?
    Every man fears death, unless he's insane, in which case nothing will move him. It isn't a want of fear of death that moves men to sin, which is why Solomon and David, for all their reasons to be grateful and obedient, for all their wisdom and blessing, sinned.


    Into was back to submitting fan fiction...
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    I fell five stories back in 2011 and on my way down I did not once think I was going to die. No fear at all, zero
    We have a lot of folks like that in the South. Sometimes they post videos that begin with, "Watch this!" Sometimes their families have to post them.


    CS tried to peddle a variation on the ol pointy headed edjumacated meme...
    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    How many college educated folks know how to think for themselves?
    They're more likely to do it than people who haven't had any training in critical thinking. And they're more likely to do it than less intelligent people. Both of those constitute the majority of people who aren't college graduates, comparatively.

    How many only think in the manner their profs and people in their bubble tell them is proper to think?
    People who think that way tend to either not have experienced a solid education, or to be the sort who sometimes make it into public universities and learning annexes and lower the average for the rest.


    And Idol was charging the one true church approach...
    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    For 1000 years there was one Church Town, it was the one that Jesus Himself founded, and more importantly, wrt historical validity, the one that all His Apostles worked to build.
    When I was a kid, the only fast food place in the county seat was a Hardee's.

    Are you of the opinion that that one Church is no longer extant?
    I'm of the opinion that things change. Now we have a McDonald's, Arby's, even a Ruby Tuesday's.

    So many places and they all serve food, even if they didn't serve it first.

    Is there another option?
    Sure. Wendy's...though as with most they're fond of possessives.


    By the way, though I don't have time for it here, his response inside the framework of fast food was really very good and you should take a look at it and my answer beginning here, if you have the time and like that sort of thing...and if you don't you're in a peculiar thread and post for you.


    CS illustrated a point...
    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    From my experience and from the anecdotes I've read, it seems to me college purposefully trains Young folks to avoid critical thinking at all costs.
    That's anecdotal thinking, something a good education would have warned you off of accepting. We use the anecdote to illustrate the rule, but never to fashion it.



    Then George got me all bumfuzzled with...
    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    Canada has never been great. It wants to think it is. But it won't be until it dumps the socialist mindset.
    Capitalism makes wealth. Socialists are now spending it faster than we can make it
    Darn socialist military.


    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    Canada spends appprox. 1% of GDP on NATO. - half of the guideline.
    USA spends 3.5% of GDP on Nato - 1.5% more than the 2% guideline.

    Pony up Canada!
    Shoot. I just saw "pony" and got sucked in.


    Tomorrow? Finding Laura Ingraham, sequels, and the futility of goodwill stipe hunting...
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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