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Thread: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

  1. #61
    TOL Subscriber heir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    the new covenant that Jesus made was faith works grace
    Mat 26:28 Mat 19:17
    The new covenant will be with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It is FUTURE. Hebrews 8:8 KJV.



    the new dispensation (new house rule) in the new covenant given to Paul
    Paul was not given "the new covenant".

    are you saying that Jesus new covenant had no grace?
    I'm saying there is no "Covenant of Grace". It's not in the Bible. I didn't become a fellowheir, and of the same Body and a partaker of God's promise in Christ by a covenant, but by the gospel!

    Ephesians 3:6 KJV That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    to the Jews

    Acts 3:16 ...by faith in his name...
    Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn back(keep the law), that your sins may be blotted out
    Peter preached a murder indictment to ALL the house of Israel. For the scripture saith:

    Acts 2:36-38 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Acts 2:41 KJV Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

    They (all the house of Israel-every one of them) were to repent (change their mind) about WHO Jesus Christ was and be identified (water baptized) for the REMISSION of sins, and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. NO MENTION "how that Christ died for our sins".

    Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn back(keep the law), that your sins may be blotted out
    Is that what the verse says? When would their sins be blotted out?

    Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
    So one needs to believe "in him" and don't work to be saved? What does it mean to believe "in him"?

    no disciple wanted to
    No disciple wanted to what? Those pesky little (per)version books don't say the apostle "of" the Gentiles, do they? They make Paul just another apostle; the apostle "to" the Gentiles.


    true
    Then why did Bob say Peter was still "applying the old rules to the Gentiles."



    no
    What do you mean, "no"? It was out of order that Peter was being sent to a Gentile. Why else would he hesitate and need to be told three times? Why would he tell Cornelius that it was an unlawful thing for him to keep company with one from another nation Acts 10:28 KJV? If Peter was supposed to be going to Gentiles at the time of acts 10 prior to the vision, why was it unlawful?

    where does the plot imply that ?
    on or about pg 47


    so
    So, it wasn't that Peter "momentarily forgot" or "misapplied the law" or was "applying the old rules to the Gentiles" as Bob says making Peter look like a bumbling idiot. I believe the scripture over Bob. Romans 3:4 KJV

    to show peter that there was new dispensation ,gentiles saved apart from the law.
    Peter had no knowledge of a new dispensation at that time and please show what Peter actually preached to Cornelius from the scriptures.

    who did the body of Christ begin with ?
    Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV). Paul is our pattern.

    what is your point?
    That Peter could not have preached grace to Cornelius, because Peter didn't "perceive the grace" until Acts 15.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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  3. #62
    Over 1500 post club way 2 go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    The question was: Were there Gentiles called Jews? Your answer was "proselyte". That's right and we see a Gentile here in Romans that Paul is zeroing in on. He's "called a jew".

    Romans 2:17 KJV Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

    There was only one way for a Gentile to be called a Jew and that would have been by circumcision (Romans 2:25 KJV).

    So we have Gentiles called Jews in Romans.






    Although Paul makes mention of Gentiles such as we in Romans 1:14 KJV, he had yet to let the cat out of the bag (2 Corinthians 12:1-6 KJV). He had not yet been sent far hence (Acts 22:21 KJV).


    There were some out of Israel that would believe (Romans 11:14 KJV). A remnant which God foreknew (Romans 11:5 KJV)
    .



    To provoke the Jews to jealousy, Paul was sent to "the Gentiles" (Romans 11:11 KJV). There is more than one Gentile that Paul was sent to (and more than one sending Acts 26:16-17 KJV, for that matter). That's why I posed this question to you:
    his calling was:
    Act 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.

    "Were there Gentiles who had hope and were in the promise and others who had no hope and were strangers from the covenants of promise in the Bible?"



    I'm still waiting for your reply.
    I don't understand the question


    That's not what the text says. You can believe it means what it says. Read it carefully. It does not say God "could end the time of the Gentiles at ANYtime". You got that idea from somewhere else.



    Romans 11:19-22 KJV Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    And about the graffing in; in The Plot Bob writes that we're "grafted into Christ", but it is clear from the word of God that these Romans were graffed in to the olive tree (Romans 11:24 KJV) and it doesn't take too long to figure out who the tree represents. It's Israel. And of course, that is what these Gentiles in Romans 11 had a standing in before they had ever heard Paul's my gospel that would establish them into the Body which was the purpose of Paul writing to them in the first place (Romans 1:17 KJV, Romans 1:10-12 KJV, Romans 1:15 KJV).

    We weren't grafted in to anything. Everyone who has ever been identified into the Body of Christ was/is baptized by one Spirit into one Body 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). It is a baptism (identification) into His death (Romans 6:3-4 KJV). It is a baptism into Christ (Galatians 3:27 KJV). That's baptized not grafted.

    so your saying that the roman church were proselyte gentiles
    converted to Peter's gospel of
    faith law grace
    and Paul was trying to make them his converts ?



    You posted Romans 11:22 KJV and then said,


    First of all, no one in the Bible lost their salvation.
    Israel had to endure to the end to be saved (Matthew 24:13 KJV)
    Jews were born saved
    and lost there salvation if they did not continue in faith and the law

    Those in the Body of Christ are saved and sealed the moment we trust the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV).
    I believe Romans 11:22 KJV means what it says, as it says it and to whom it says it. And this is just another reason to study with the KJB as opposed to the (per)versions. Thee and thou are singular in a King James Bible.|

    Paul is zeroing in on one person. It's likely the same "o man" who is "called a jew" from chapter 2.

    Romans 11:22 KJV Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    Remember, continuing in the goodness of God did not mean doing something. It means being established into the BoC by Paul's my gospel! These Romans had never heard it! They were called to be saints (Romans 1:17 KJV).
    we disagree
    Paul is writing about what happened to Israel being cut off and warning it could happen again




    What a complete waste of time; to write over 300 pages and refrain from declaring the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.
    how would those verses have helped explain the plot?



    I would agree that the "we" (Ephesians 1:12 KJV) is "Jews and gentiles", but it's more than that. Who then is the "ye" (Ephesians 1:13 KJV)? Are you saying that the two groups in the one Body is 1. Jews and 2. Gentiles?
    1.ye = the people he is writing to

    2. yes

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Yes, that's what the scripture shows.

    Paul was first sent to the Jews and also to the Greek (Romans 1:16 KJV). All Greeks are Gentiles, but not all Gentiles were Greeks. Paul was sent more than once. He was not sent to Gentiles such as we until much later (Acts 22:17-21 KJV).
    .
    his calling was:
    Act 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
    That was Paul's first sending.

    Acts 26:13-17 KJV At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

    And notice in the above passage that the risen ascended, glorified Lord Jesus Christ promises to appear again...

    This is Paul's second sending

    Acts 22:17-21 KJV And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance; 18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me. 19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee: 20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him. 21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
    I don't understand the question
    How about this: Were there Gentiles in the Bible who had hope and were there Gentiles in the Bible who in time past had no hope?

    so your saying that the roman church were proselyte gentiles
    converted to Peter's gospel of
    faith law grace
    and Paul was trying to make them his converts ?
    The Romans had a faith (Romans 1:1-4 KJV); who Jesus Christ was and that God proved it "with power" by raising Him from the dead. They could have certainly gotten that message from Peter on the day of Pentecost Acts 2:32 KJV, Acts 2:36 KJV. Paul praised them for their faith, but it was not the mutual faith of both them and Paul. IOW, they had not yet heard the gospel of Christ that would establish them into the Body of Christ.

    Paul was gathering in the remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew and the Romans were a part of it as were the Corinthians Galatians and Thessalonians. They were of the "we who first trusted in Christ" (Ephesians 1:12 KJV) which began with Paul (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV). The remnant consisted of believing Jews, proselytes "called Jews" and Gentiles called Greeks; IOW, "Jews and Greeks". They were "them which are called" (at that time) 1 Corinthians 1:24 KJV).

    Jews were born saved
    and lost there salvation if they did not continue in faith and the law
    uhhh. No they weren't. They had to repent about who Jesus Christ was and be identified by water baptism for the remission of sins and a whole host of other things including endure to the end to be saved.


    we disagree
    Paul is writing about what happened to Israel being cut off and warning it could happen again
    You disagreed with scripture. It means what it says. I can't make you see anything if you refuse to believe it.

    how would those verses have helped explain the plot?
    Well, it is the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) that someone trusts the Lord believing for salvation, but hey, no need make mention of it, eh?

    It could help explain that Christ dying for the some men's sins (Israel and those allied with them) was "according to the scriptures", but not made known until Paul revealed it Romans 16:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV). Don't you think it vital on both counts?

    1.ye = the people he is writing to
    Yes. These Ephesians to whom he wrote the letter; double dog Gentiles!

    2. yes
    It doesn't work.

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  6. #64
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    so your saying that the roman church were proselyte gentiles converted to Peter's gospel of faith law grace
    and Paul was trying to make them his converts ?
    Yes. I am working on it, but there is one post in my thread The Book of Romans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    First is his audience.
    7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
    13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles.

    They are gentiles in Rome. Gentiles mean those that are not Israel. But they were gentiles that were proselytized to Israel as he says here:
    17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God,

    So these gentiles are going to be familiar to the promises made to Israel. They came to God through Israel, exalting her and keeping of the law. What Paul wants to do is share his gospel with these gentiles. His gospel is not the same as Israelís good news. They have the same savior but a different ministry and mission. They in Rome knew they were to show their faith by their works. They did not have his good news.
    15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also.


    The audience is gentiles that were proselytes to Israel, they know of the law and they know they are required to keep it. They are called Jew as a result. And Paul is now ready to share his gospel with them.
    He says they are gentiles that are called Jews. They have a common faith, yet Paul is ready to share the gospel with them. How can that otherwise be?
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Yes. I am working on it, but there is one post in my thread The Book of Romans.



    He says they are gentiles that are called Jews. They have a common faith, yet Paul is ready to share the gospel with them. How can that otherwise be?
    That's what it says in a nutshell.

    thanks Nick M
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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  9. #66
    Over 1500 post club way 2 go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    The new covenant will be with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It is FUTURE. Hebrews 8:8 KJV.



    Paul was not given "the new covenant".

    I'm saying there is no "Covenant of Grace". It's not in the Bible. I didn't become a fellowheir, and of the same Body and a partaker of God's promise in Christ by a covenant, but by the gospel!

    Ephesians 3:6 KJV That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    Luk 22:20 ..."This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

    whats your point to saying there is no Covenant of Grace?

    I'm missing it




    Peter preached a murder indictment to ALL the house of Israel. For the scripture saith:

    Acts 2:36-38 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Acts 2:41 KJV Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

    They (all the house of Israel-every one of them) were to repent (change their mind) about WHO Jesus Christ was and be identified (water baptized) for the REMISSION of sins, and they would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. NO MENTION "how that Christ died for our sins".
    so ?


    Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn back(keep the law), that your sins may be blotted out
    the day they repent is the day the sins are blotted out.
    Is that what the verse says? When would their sins be blotted out?
    1.yes
    2.used to be the day they repented is the day the sins were blotted out.

    So one needs to believe "in him" and don't work to be saved? What does it mean to believe "in him"?
    is there a point to this Question?


    No disciple wanted to what?
    go to the gentiles

    Those pesky little (per)version books don't say the apostle "of" the Gentiles, do they? They make Paul just another apostle; the apostle "to" the Gentiles.
    Act 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.

    what is your point?


    Then why did Bob say Peter was still "applying the old rules to the Gentiles."
    because he was
    do you think Peter quit keeping the law ?
    Act 10:14

    What do you mean, "no"? It was out of order that Peter was being sent to a Gentile. Why else would he hesitate and need to be told three times? Why would he tell Cornelius that it was an unlawful thing for him to keep company with one from another nation Acts 10:28 KJV? If Peter was supposed to be going to Gentiles at the time of acts 10 prior to the vision, why was it unlawful?
    how is it out of order?

    Israel was cut off and Saul was called. Act 9:4

    Peter was not some bumbling idiot who "momentarily forgot" or "misapplied the law" when he preached (Acts 10:35 KJV) to Cornelius as The Plot implies.


    on or about pg 47
    ok read p46 47 48 no bumbling idiot


    So, it wasn't that Peter "momentarily forgot" or "misapplied the law" or was "applying the old rules to the Gentiles" as Bob says making Peter look like a bumbling idiot. I believe the scripture over Bob. Romans 3:4 KJV
    old rules ?
    peter kept the law

    Peter had no knowledge of a new dispensation at that time and please show what Peter actually preached to Cornelius from the scriptures.
    1. he knew if Israel didn't repent Jesus return would be delayed

    Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
    Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
    Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things

    2.works - Act 10:35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him .


    Paul was the first member of the Body of Christ (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV). Paul is our pattern.
    true

    That Peter could not have preached grace to Cornelius, because Peter didn't "perceive the grace" until Acts 15.
    sure he did but under the law

    Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.



    so far we have nothing against Mid Acts Dispensation or Bob Enyart..

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    so far we have nothing against Mid Acts Dispensation or Bob Enyart..
    I'm not against MAD or Bob. I am for the truth. There are problems with some of the doctrine brought up in The Plot. I thought you opened the thread to discuss some of those things and were going to come from his position (assuming you were in agreement with what he wrote). There's no need to be discouraged. It's getting late here. I'll try and chime in in the morning.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Over 1500 post club way 2 go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Yes. I am working on it, but there is one post in my thread The Book of Romans.



    He says they are gentiles that are called Jews. They have a common faith, yet Paul is ready to share the gospel with them. How can that otherwise be?
    that's not the way i see it but i will look at it again

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    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    that's not the way i see it but i will look at it again
    How else can you see it? He says they are gentiles, they are called Jew, he is ready to share the gospel with them. What else is there?
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    Over and over The Plot forces circumcision on all Gentiles, but I don't believe all Gentiles had to be circumcised . If they wanted to be partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree, yes, but not all Gentiles had to be circumcised. They were in the promise, they had a hope if they sought a blessing through Israel; blessed the seed of Abraham; blessed Israel.

    Genesis 12:1-3 KJV Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    Of the 2 examples of Gentiles in the so called NT, before the Body of Christ began in Acts 9, I see no circumcision required of these two (one was a woman) for a blessing, but rather them going through the proper channels of recognizing their place and/or blessing Israel.

    Luke 7:1-2 KJV Now when he had ended all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum. 2 And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die.

    proper channel:

    Luke 7:3 KJV And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.

    Why would this Gentile's request even be heard? Was it because he was circumcised? NO!

    Luke 7:4-5 KJV And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this:5 For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.


    And the Gentile woman?

    Mark 7:25-27 KJV For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet: 26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. 27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

    She recognized Him as Lord and understood her position

    Mark 7:28 KJV And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

    Even Cornelius (not in the Body either), was a blesser. Just look at the description of him.

    Acts 10:1-2 KJV There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

    You couldn't say that about Gentiles like us. There is no Israel to bless today. There is no Israel to align ourselves with which to be blessed. And even if there were, here was our condition in time past Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV. We had no hope in time past. Well, that is unless God had a mystery concerning us...
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    TOL Subscriber heir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Luk 22:20 ..."This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

    whats your point to saying there is no Covenant of Grace?

    I'm missing it
    I asked for someone to give a definition to the term Covenant of Grace". You replied that it is Romans 4:5 and now you have it as Luke 22:20?

    BTW, you really need to get a King James Bible. It says this Luke 22:20 KJV.

    Where's the so called "Covenant of Grace" The Plot makes reference to that we're supposedly "under". It's not in the verses you keep coming up with. It's not in the scriptures. So it's to be thrown out.

    1.yes
    2.used to be the day they repented is the day the sins were blotted out.
    The verses show the "when" they will be blotted out and it's not the "day they repented". Read it carefully Acts 3:19-21 KJV. When does it say they may be blotted out?

    Act 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.

    what is your point?
    Paul is not just another apostle. He is the apostle OF the Gentiles. He's our pattern of the Lord's all longsuffering, His apostleship was unique (1 Corinthians 15:8 KJV). He was given the mystery gospel, doctrine, duty, dispensation of the grace of God to us Gentiles, inheritance to the Body of Christ. All of which was different than that of what the 12 were given. So watering it down misquoting Romans 11:13 KJV as The Plot does, takes away from that.

    because he was
    not at the time of Acts 10...
    do you think Peter quit keeping the law ?
    no
    Acts 21:20 KJV


    how is it out of order?
    It wasn't time to go to all nations with the so called "great commission". It was all about Israel with Peter and all of Israel had not repented. The King had not returned.
    Israel was cut off and Saul was called. Act 9:4
    Israel fell, but there was still a remnant according to the election of grace which God foreknew. Paul gathered them in during the Acts period.

    old rules ?
    Bob's term
    peter kept the law
    Yep.

    1. he knew if Israel didn't repent Jesus return would be delayed
    Peter had no knowledge of God's dispensing to Paul at that time. Prove otherwise with the scripture.

    sure he did but under the law
    Peter could not have preached grace to Cornelius, because Peter didn't "perceive the grace" until Acts 15. You can't have it both ways. One minute you are quoting Acts 10:35 KJV (you post a perversion of it) and the next you say Peter preached grace. This is grace...Titus 3:5 KJV. Those two verses are in direct opposition to one another.

    Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep.
    This, like much of what you bring up has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

    so far we have nothing against Mid Acts Dispensation or Bob Enyart..
    So far, we have no one disagreeing with the HUGE problem of Bob saying Gentiles are "grafted into Christ" and the implications that come as a result of that bad doctrine. I showed more than once with scripture why that can't be. Isn't there anyone who will stand with the scriptures on this topic?
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Peter had no knowledge of God's dispensing to Paul at that time. Prove otherwise with the scripture.
    Not so Lord!
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    When asked, "Are you saying that the two groups in the one Body is 1. Jews and 2. Gentiles?" you replied,
    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    2. yes
    This is also another problem with The Plot which puts a footnote on "Greeks" identifying them as gentiles which is correct, but defines them as "any non-Jew, which is incorrect. I'll show you why 1. Jews and 2. Gentiles doesn't work and who the two groups in the one Body actually are:

    Paul was already going to the Jew first and also to the Greek during his Acts ministry. All Greeks are Gentiles, but not all Gentiles were Greeks. So Paul is already sent to certain Gentiles, "Greeks". They are those Gentiles to whom Paul was first sent (Acts 26:17 KJV). They were the Gentiles who were being called at that time (Acts 13:26 KJV, 1 Cor. 1:24 KJV). They feared God (Acts 13:26 KJV). Paul found them in the synagogue of the Jews. What were Gentiles doing in the synagogue of the Jews? They were seeking a blessing as per Genesis 12:3 KJV. They were fearing God and working righteousness. What they didn't know, was that their blessing would be the forgiveness of sins! They would hear how that Christ died for their sins and that He was buried and rose again the third day for their justification! They would be stablished into the Body of Christ by Paul's my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, the wisdom of God in a mystery (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV)!

    The Greeks are of those who "first trusted in Christ" (the body of Christ beginning with the apostle Paul 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV). They are the "them that were nigh" (Ephesians 2:17 KJV). They were aligned with Israel. They had a hope (Genesis 12:3 KJV). They were in the promise: heirs according to the promise.

    Galatians 3:29 KJV And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    That cannot be said about Gentiles such as we! It was not until Paul revealed that the Lord was going to send him again, but this time even to the far hence Gentiles (Acts 22:17-21 KJV), that he became a prisoner of Jesus Christ for "you Gentiles" (Ephesians 3:1 KJV people like you and me).

    The Ephesians to whom Paul wrote the letter, were not "heirs according to the promise". These Gentiles were cursed Gentiles, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise. These Gentiles in time past had no hope and were without God in the world!

    Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    These Ephesians are of the "ye" whom "also trusted" (as are we).

    Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    It is the fellowship of the mystery~ the "both" made "one", the "twain" made "one new man"!

    1.The Jews and Greeks, those gathered during Paul's Acts ministry, those in the commonwealth of Israel. They had a hope

    ...And

    2. The "you Gentiles",in time past aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world

    Ephesians 2:13-15 KJV But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    We are fellowheirs, and of the same body with those who first trusted in Christ (Ephesians 1:12 KJV beginning with Paul 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV which includes the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians and Thessalonians) and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel:

    Ephesians 3:6 KJV That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    (by the gospel: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

    Ephesians 3:8 KJV Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Over 1500 post club way 2 go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Over and over The Plot forces circumcision on all Gentiles, but I don't believe all Gentiles had to be circumcised . If they wanted to be partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree, yes, but not all Gentiles had to be circumcised. They were in the promise, they had a hope if they sought a blessing through Israel; blessed the seed of Abraham; blessed Israel.

    Genesis 12:1-3 KJV Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

    Of the 2 examples of Gentiles in the so called NT, before the Body of Christ began in Acts 9, I see no circumcision required of these two (one was a woman) for a blessing, but rather them going through the proper channels of recognizing their place and/or blessing Israel.

    Luke 7:1-2 KJV Now when he had ended all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum. 2 And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die.

    proper channel:

    Luke 7:3 KJV And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.

    Why would this Gentile's request even be heard? Was it because he was circumcised? NO!

    Luke 7:4-5 KJV And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this:5 For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.


    And the Gentile woman?

    Mark 7:25-27 KJV For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet: 26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. 27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

    She recognized Him as Lord and understood her position

    Mark 7:28 KJV And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

    Even Cornelius (not in the Body either), was a blesser. Just look at the description of him.

    Acts 10:1-2 KJV There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

    You couldn't say that about Gentiles like us. There is no Israel to bless today. There is no Israel to align ourselves with which to be blessed. And even if there were, here was our condition in time past Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV. We had no hope in time past. Well, that is unless God had a mystery concerning us...

    so you have exceptions to the rules . her are 2 more

    Jos 6:25 But Rahab the prostitute and her father's household and all who belonged to her, Joshua saved alive. And she has lived in Israel to this day, because she hid the messengers whom Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.

    and


    2Sa 12:9 Why have you despised the word of the LORD, to do what is evil in his sight? You have struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and have taken his wife to be your wife and have killed him with the sword of the Ammonites.

    (David should have been put to death)



    your exceptions do not void the agreement

    Gal 2:7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised
    Gal 2:9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.


    the plot is based on Gal 2:9
    and is the only way to rightly divide what happened in the new testament

    the only thing i get from you is you don't like Bob Enyart and that's ok

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    your exceptions do not void the agreement

    Gal 2:7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised
    Gal 2:9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
    The point was and still is: that over and over The Plot forces circumcision on all Gentiles, but that's not what the scriptures show. If a Gentile (blesser) wanted to be partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree, yes, but not all Gentiles had to be circumcised. They were in the promise, they had a hope if they sought a blessing through Israel; blessed the seed of Abraham; blessed Israel as per Genesis 12:1-3 KJV.

    Of the 2 examples of Gentiles in the so called NT, before the Body of Christ began in Acts 9, I see no circumcision required of these two (one was a woman) for a blessing, but rather them going through the proper channels of recognizing their place and/or blessing Israel. And that even Cornelius (not in the Body either), was a blesser.

    My point stands. I never said it voided Galatians 2:7-9 KJV. That doesn't even make sense.

    As to Galatians 2:9 you quoted, since Bob believes Israel was "cut off" and the "Gentiles grafted in" in Acts 9, what does Bob do to reconcile the fact that Paul went to the Jew first and also to the Greek throughout the Acts period and why? Who does The Plot say those people are? Also, does Bob "use" the King James Bible to show there are two separate gospels in Galatians 2:7 KJV or does he continue to use the (per)verted "New" King James book like you do that makes it appear as if there is only one gospel in the verse?

    the plot is based on Gal 2:9
    and is the only way to rightly divide what happened in the new testament
    We're told to study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV), not "rightly dividing the word of God" as some say. The "word of truth" is specific. It is the "gospel of your salvation", but when asked earlier in the thread if and where 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV (the word of truth) is declared as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth you said that Bob "did not use those verses in The Plot". Galatians 2:9 is not the key. 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV is. The Plot has no "word of truth" to rightly divide.

    the only thing i get from you is you don't like Bob Enyart and that's ok
    How I "feel" about Bob has not entered into this discussion. I don't base my disagreements with The Plot on my feelings. I have scriptural reasons of which I've shared a few as to why The Plot is in error.
    Last edited by heir; January 28th, 2014 at 07:31 AM.

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