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Thread: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Every time Israel was set aside, a remnant remained.
    Has nothing to do with the establishment of the BOC.
    Yep.

    Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

    Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    Afterwhich, the following began, starting with the first Jew / Israelite concluded blind: Paul.

    For as the Lord had said...

    John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

    John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

    This time, He would be opening eyes, however...

    1 Timothy 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

    Which is when this mystery began to unfold...

    Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

    Which began in Acts 9.

    Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

    Acts 26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead? 26:9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. 26:11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities. 26:12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

    Verse 18 there, being what this here, is referring to...

    Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    "...you which WERE afar off" - the Gentiles Paul had been sent to - "and to them that WERE nigh" - the People: Israel, that Paul had been delivered from, after that both he and the Unbelieving of his People, had been concluded blind, or under sin with the Gentiles.

    The irony?

    That the Lord used a member of the Believing Remnant to for a witness of this transition from Prophecy to Mystery...

    Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 9:11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

    Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 22:13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

    Not only has there always been a Believing Remnant of Israel, but used by God during one or another of His transitions from one season to another...

    Judges 4:1 And the children of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, when Ehud was dead. 4:2 And the LORD sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, that reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose host was Sisera, which dwelt in Harosheth of the Gentiles. 4:3 And the children of Israel cried unto the LORD: for he had nine hundred chariots of iron; and twenty years he mightily oppressed the children of Israel.

    4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.

    Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

    2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

    2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 2:28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

    2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.

    2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

    2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

    2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

    2:39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

    I'm short, what Tam said - that Israel has always had...a Believing Remnant.

    Rom. 5:6-8.

  2. #482
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    I'm short, what Tam said - that Israel has always had...a Believing Remnant.
    Yes, and it is not difficult to understand what happened to that remnant in the first century because who else but the "remnant" and the "Gentile believers" can Paul be speaking about in this passage when he uses the words "both" and "of twain"?:

    "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-16).

    Is there anyone who will deny that when Paul used the word "both" that he had in mind the Gentile believers and the believing remnant out of Israel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes, and it is not difficult to understand what happened to that remnant in the first century because who else but the "remnant" and the "Gentile believers" can Paul be speaking about in this passage when he uses the words "both" and "of twain"?:

    "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-16).

    Is there anyone who will deny that when Paul used the word "both" that he had in mind the Gentile believers and the believing remnant out of Israel?
    No, you incompetent.



    Earlier in the chapter he has already identified both as having been lost and following the course of this world.

    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )

    That is this, you mindless drone.

    Romans 11:30 For as ye IN TIMES PAST have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy THROUGH THEIR UNBELIEF: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them ALL IN UNBELIEF in unbelief, that he might have mercy UPON ALL. 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

    Again, "books based" blind one...

    Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    "...you which WERE afar off" - the Gentiles Paul had been sent to - "and to them that WERE nigh" - the People: Israel, that Paul had been delivered from, after that both he and the Unbelieving of his People, had been concluded blind, or under sin with the Gentiles.

    According to, and when?

    1 Timothy 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

    Get a clue, book worm.

    Acts 17: 11, 12.

  4. #484
    Over 500 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    ...who else but the "remnant" and the "Gentile believers" can Paul be speaking about in this passage when he uses the words "both" and "of twain"?:
    ...
    Is there anyone who will deny that when Paul used the word "both" that he had in mind the Gentile believers and the believing remnant out of Israel?
    Sounds good to me, Jerry.

    'Course I'm not a Dispensationalist of any variety, so . . . .
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    Sounds good to me, Jerry.

    'Course I'm not a Dispensationalist of any variety, so . . . .
    Neither, apparantly, is Jerry.



    It being ever obvious that Jerry's supposed "Dispensationalism" is, as with your views, "the traditions of men."

    In other words, people like him not only got their Dispensationalism from books "about" it, decades ago, but before they had learned how to properly sort out a thing on their own.

    The result being that theirs ends up a cross between what is sound that they find they agree with by accident, and what is not sound that they find they agree with, because they never learned how to properly discern between both good and evil.

    In this, as much as he is ever going on his erroneous assertion that Hebrews was written about the Body, the irony is, that when it comes to going back and forth with Jerry, the following is a perfect illustration of Jerry, where the things of the Lord are concerned.

    Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    No surprise then, that Jerry is ever finding agreement with your kind and those within the erroneous, Acts 2 Dispensationalistism, he is ever citing the writings of, and or those of earlier Mid-Acts writers who had often admitted they were still in search of a sharper and sharper understanding of...the things that differ.

    Jerry came along, ignored that, and now asserts theirs had been, the final say.

    The man is the typical fanatic, be it here, or over in the Politics section.

    No, thanks.

    Rom. 5:6-8.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    No, you incompetent.
    So that is your answer to my previous question:

    Is there anyone who will deny that when Paul used the word "both" that he had in mind the Gentile believers and the believing remnant out of Israel?

    You admit that the remnant out of Israel is being spoken of here by Paul:

    "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
    (Eph.2:14-16).

    That makes my point. The believing remnant out of Israel, along with the believing Gentiles, were both made members of the Body of Christ.

    After all, who else could it be?

  7. #487
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    The man is the typical fanatic, be it here, or over in the Politics section.
    A Fanatic just like J.C. O'Hair:

    "Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphais mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).

  8. #488
    Over 500 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Neither, apparantly, is Jerry.



    It being ever obvious that Jerry's supposed "Dispensationalism" is, as with your views, "the traditions of men."
    Dispensationalism was invented through myopic study of the Bible. Dispensationalists' ideas find no confirmation in the record of history, which means that what you folks believe must have only been reality for the blink of an eye before the whole Church plunged into pretty serious error, according to you all, who think that the Church's actual practices are bastardized, including baptism and communion.

    No thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    In other words, people like him not only got their Dispensationalism from books "about" it, decades ago, but before they had learned how to properly sort out a thing on their own.
    I sort out things on my own, Danoh. Why is it that if somebody disagrees with you, they must therefore not known how to sort out a thing on their own?
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    The result being that theirs ends up a cross between what is sound that they find they agree with by accident, and what is not sound that they find they agree with, because they never learned how to properly discern between both good and evil.
    I know what the Church did, from the Apostolic age onward. For example, we know what the Church was already doing, before a single New Testament book was ever written down, so we know that she was being pastored by pastors, and that those pastors were first and foremost the Apostles, and then the men whom the Apostles created bishops/overseers/elders, through the imposition of their own hands, which is another thing that you Dispensationalists discard, though for what reason I do not know, since Paul himself practiced this sacrament of Holy Orders, and even wrote three epistles addressed to two specific bishops, Timothy and Titus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    In this, as much as he is ever going on his erroneous assertion that Hebrews was written about the Body, the irony is, that when it comes to going back and forth with Jerry, the following is a perfect illustration of Jerry, where the things of the Lord are concerned.

    Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
    Hebrews was written by a bishop---whether Paul, or Apollos, or whomever he was, we know he was a bishop---to the Church.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    No surprise then, that Jerry is ever finding agreement with your kind and those within the erroneous, Acts 2 Dispensationalistism, he is ever citing the writings of, and or those of earlier Mid-Acts writers who had often admitted they were still in search of a sharper and sharper understanding of...the things that differ.
    It wouldn't hurt to crack a history book, is all I'm saying. Your folks' view requires the Church to have fairly immediately plunged into abject darkness even within the Apostolic age, and that to me is just another conspiracy theory, and not one with much merit when the scriptures are pondered in the light of what actually occurred with the actual Church that Jesus Christ actually founded, commissioning His Apostles to administrate it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Jerry came along, ignored that, and now asserts theirs had been, the final say.

    The man is the typical fanatic, be it here, or over in the Politics section.

    No, thanks.
    I didn't extend any invitation. It's implicit, and at times I do explicate it, but this wasn't one of those times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Rom. 5:6-8.
    Why did Paul instruct the Corinthian church on celebrating the Eucharist? I've heard one explanation, that he was writing to both the Church, and to the remnant, in that letter, but I'm curious why you think he did so.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So that is your answer to my previous question:

    Is there anyone who will deny that when Paul used the word "both" that he had in mind the Gentile believers and the believing remnant out of Israel?

    You admit that the remnant out of Israel is being spoken of here by Paul:

    "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
    (Eph.2:14-16).

    That makes my point. The believing remnant out of Israel, along with the believing Gentiles, were both made members of the Body of Christ.

    After all, who else could it be?
    Those formerly lost Jews / Israelites that Paul includes himself with, in that same chapter's, verse 3.

    But you long ago ended up at your false -positive, married it, built more and more error on top of it, and ended up with your eyes blinded, and your ears long stopped up by it.

    Proving your incompetence

    For it is obvious to every here but clueless Idol worshipper, that you never understood that Israel and the Body are two different agencies.

    You are so blind that you can't even see you are actually asserting a replacement theology.



    Rom. 5:6-8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    A Fanatic just like J.C. O'Hair:

    "Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphais mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).
    Proving O'Hair (and Stam also) had been wrong about that.

    Never have read Baker's take on it.

    And those three men died, leaving your kind of incompetence to come along and turn their last words on any thing into THE last word on it.



    Rom. 5:6-8

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    Get your armor ready! Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post

    You are so blind that you can't even see you are actually asserting a replacement theology.
    Yep, it does seem that way to me too.
    As if the BOC is just some sort of an upgrade or addition to the remnant.

    "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    For it is obvious to every here but clueless Idol worshipper, that you never understood that Israel and the Body are two different agencies.
    You are so desperate that you are now misrepensenting my position.

    I have always said that at the present time israel has been temporarily cast aside and I have always said that the Body of Christ exists now.

    But you say that I never understood that Israel and the Body are two different agencies.

    You are either misrepresenting me on purpose or you are so confused that you don't know if you are coming or going!

    Pitiful!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You are so desperate that you are now misrepensenting my position.

    I have always said that at the present time israel has been temporarily cast aside and I have always said that the Body of Christ exists now.

    But you say that I never understood that Israel and the Body are two different agencies.

    You are either misrepresenting me on purpose or you are so confused that you don't know if you are coming or going!

    Pitiful!


    That's just you, reading things into a thing once more, out of your blindness in your ignorance of the obvious but to you.

    The following will go right over your stubborn head...

    Your kind ever fail to consider that the Gentiles had also had a Prophesied Hope - within ISRAEL's Prophesied Hope, that God had repeatedly made clear, throughout, say, Isaiah, for example, that He has determined He WILL bring to come to pass THROUGH a one day Redeemed Nation: Israel.

    Through the Twelve to Israel to the Gentiles.

    In other words, God had not needed to raise up an Apostle of the Gentiles.

    For the Gentiles had /have a Prophesied Hope that God had / has determined to bring to come to pass.

    Meaning, that the raising up of an Apostle of the Gentiles was / is towards a DIFFERENT Plan and Purpose that Israel and the Twelve are not a part of.

    The Twelve and Israel's realm is "in Earth."

    The One Apostle and the Body's is "in Heaven."

    You have simply blinded yourself to the obvious.

    There had been no need for an Apostle of the Gentiles within the Prophetic aspect of God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy, and Mystery.

    None whatsoever.

    Paul and the Body are a DIFFERENT Agency, altogether.

    Prophecy and Mystery are the issue of TWO, DIFFERENT Agencies "in the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven AND earth is named," Ephesians 3:14.

    Acts 17: 11, 12.

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    Over 500 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post


    That's just you, reading things into a thing once more, out of your blindness in your ignorance of the obvious but to you.

    The following will go right over your stubborn head...

    Your kind ever fail to consider that the Gentiles had also had a Prophesied Hope - within ISRAEL's Prophesied Hope, that God had repeatedly made clear, throughout, say, Isaiah, for example, that He has determined He WILL bring to come to pass THROUGH a one day Redeemed Nation: Israel.

    Through the Twelve to Israel to the Gentiles.
    This is clearly the Church.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    In other words, God had not needed to raise up an Apostle of the Gentiles.
    Or, that Apostle to the Gentiles is fulfilling Isaiah. But also, the Lord did command the Eleven thusly: Matthew 28:19 KJV 'all nations'
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    For the Gentiles had /have a Prophesied Hope that God had / has determined to bring to come to pass.
    The Church; go on...
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Meaning, that the raising up of an Apostle of the Gentiles was / is towards a DIFFERENT Plan and Purpose that Israel and the Twelve are not a part of.
    That's unnecessary to postulate. We can just say that the Church was the plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    The Twelve and Israel's realm is "in Earth."

    The One Apostle and the Body's is "in Heaven."
    So where you Dispensationalists separate them, the Church has always seen them as a single thing, especially in the sacraments, which are a unique blend of heaven and earth, more so than other examples where heaven and earth meet---and the most significant unity between heaven and earth is the Body of Christ herself, the Church, and especially when she worships her Husband, Prophet, Priest, and King, the Lord Jesus Christ, especially in the Mass, and especially in the celebration of Holy Communion, the Eucharist, eating His body, and drinking His blood, just as He instructed, and as's recorded three times in the Gospels, and once in 1st Corinthians, and then in John 6, we get a thorough lesson on what Christ meant when He said, "This is My body," and, "This is My blood."
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    You have simply blinded yourself to the obvious.
    Ironic. I'm not being mean here, but observing the irony, not pointing it at you, but relating what yours and my view entails about the other---that you're blinded in your thinking; that that's why we disagree, because one of us is blinded. That's what we each have concluded about the other.

    That seems on its face dysfunctional. And repeating, I'm not pointing it at you. It seems dysfunctional that this is my conclusion about you and yours, also. I'm going to have to think more on this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    There had been no need for an Apostle of the Gentiles within the Prophetic aspect of God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy, and Mystery.

    None whatsoever.
    Unless the Church is the one thing, that you and yours keep separating into two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Paul and the Body are a DIFFERENT Agency, altogether.
    I understand this as the crux of all Dispensationalisms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Prophecy and Mystery are the issue of TWO, DIFFERENT Agencies "in the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven AND earth is named," Ephesians 3:14.

    Acts 17: 11, 12.
    Every Mass, it is typical to read three passages from Sacred Scripture. There's usually one Old Testament reading, and there is always one Gospel reading (the third and final reading is always from a Gospel), and there is always one Pauline passage also. Additionally, when Paul wrote that he 'preaches Christ, and Him crucified,' I can personally think of no better way to do this, visually, than to hang up crucifixes everywhere. fwiw.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    This is clearly the Church.
    Or, that Apostle to the Gentiles is fulfilling Isaiah. But also, the Lord did command the Eleven thusly: Matthew 28:19 KJV 'all nations'
    The Church; go on...
    That's unnecessary to postulate. We can just say that the Church was the plan.
    So where you Dispensationalists separate them, the Church has always seen them as a single thing, especially in the sacraments, which are a unique blend of heaven and earth, more so than other examples where heaven and earth meet---and the most significant unity between heaven and earth is the Body of Christ herself, the Church, and especially when she worships her Husband, Prophet, Priest, and King, the Lord Jesus Christ, especially in the Mass, and especially in the celebration of Holy Communion, the Eucharist, eating His body, and drinking His blood, just as He instructed, and as's recorded three times in the Gospels, and once in 1st Corinthians, and then in John 6, we get a thorough lesson on what Christ meant when He said, "This is My body," and, "This is My blood."
    Ironic. I'm not being mean here, but observing the irony, not pointing it at you, but relating what yours and my view entails about the other---that you're blinded in your thinking; that that's why we disagree, because one of us is blinded. That's what we each have concluded about the other.

    That seems on its face dysfunctional. And repeating, I'm not pointing it at you. It seems dysfunctional that this is my conclusion about you and yours, also. I'm going to have to think more on this.
    Unless the Church is the one thing, that you and yours keep separating into two.
    I understand this as the crux of all Dispensationalisms.
    Every Mass, it is typical to read three passages from Sacred Scripture. There's usually one Old Testament reading, and there is always one Gospel reading (the third and final reading is always from a Gospel), and there is always one Pauline passage also. Additionally, when Paul wrote that he 'preaches Christ, and Him crucified,' I can personally think of no better way to do this, visually, than to hang up crucifixes everywhere. fwiw.


    Not to worry, Idolator.

    You can't offend me.

    Better than you have tried. Can't be done.

    Because being offended is the result of a choice of mind over flesh.

    Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    See, there are Edification doctrines within actually, consistent, Acts 9 Mid-Acts Dispensationalism that address that sort of thing (being easily offended) from having to be the Believer's "reality."

    Which become automatic over time "by reason of use."

    The intended result of such Edification Doctrines?

    Philippians 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 4:12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

    So bring it on, hot and heavy, bullets flying, and all the rest of it.

    Only the duplicitous Believer: who is unable to take more than he or she dishes out (or not), the thin-skinned Believer, is not only "not of faith" but a very poor witness of the power of the Grace of God IN the Believer.

    No matter what such an one might claim, otherwise.

    Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

    No giant waste of space, energy, time, giagantic gobs of money and resources wasted on your pagan system's monstrous buildings in some vain pursuit of "a sense of God's presence" needed.

    None.

    Beautiful buildings, though. I'll give your pagan club's ripoff of Israel's Priesthood thanks for that momentary pleasure.

    As for the rest of your response to my post to Jerry: more and more you are appearing to be merely the Putin to Jerry's Trump.



    Rom. 5:6-8.

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