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Thread: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

  1. #616
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Probably?

    Paul himself said that other Christians were in the Body of Christ before he was:

    "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me"
    (Ro.16:7).
    Uh, no. As I've told you before, "in Christ" does not necessarily mean "in the Body of Christ." This is a hasty generalization.

    It is not difficult to understand that when Paul uses the words "in Christ" he is referring to being in the Body of Christ, as witnessed what he said here:

    "For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Ro.12:4-5).
    Jerry, it's not that I don't see the argument you're making. I get it. You see "in Christ" and think "Body of Christ" because those in the Body of Christ are "in Christ."

    But again, that's a hasty generalization.

    Here's what's happening with your argument:

    All A are a subset of B, but not all B are A.

    All [members of the Body of Christ] are a subset of [people who are "in Christ"], but not all [people who are "in Christ"] are [members of the Body of Christ].

    We can also know that when Paul speaks of others being "in Christ" the term "in Christ" always means the same thing:
    It always means "in Christ." As in, "This person is a believer."

    But it DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN "This person is a member of the Body of Christ.


    "Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new"
    (2 Cor.5:16-17).

    Of course the "new creation" is the New Man, the Body of Christ which Paul speaks of here:

    "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:14-16).

    Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following about the words "new creation":

    "This 'new creation,' this 'one new man,' this 'joint body,' formed of Jews and Gentiles made one in Christ, is called 'His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all' (Eph. 1:23)" (Stam, True Spirituality [Berean Literature Foundation, 1984], 48,50).
    I'm going to stick with the plain reading of scripture over some historical person's interpretation of it.

    However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. - 1 Timothy 1:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

    But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter(for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. - Galatians 2:7-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...9&version=NKJV

    Therefore, we can understand that there is evidence that other Christians were baptized into the Body of Christ before Paul was and those Christians had to be Jewish believers such as the Twelve.


    Begging the question is a logical fallacy.

  2. #617
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter(for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. - Galatians 2:7-9
    Peter's commission was changed after Israel was temporarily set aside because in his first epistle he is no longer preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Instead, he was preaching the gospel which Paul referred to as "the preaching of the Cross":

    "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed...Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.2:24, 1:18-19).

    That is not the same gospel which the Twelve preached at Luke 9:6 because at that time they didn't even know the Lord Jesus was going to die (Lk.18:33-34).

    Are you now going to argue that the gospel which the Twelve preached at Luke 6:9 is the same one which Peter spoke of in his first epistle?

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