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Thread: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

  1. #556
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The REMNANT of Israel remain in THEIR calling.
    You failed to answer my simple question. What two groups are being referred to in the following passage written by Paul?:

    "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:13-16).

    When Paul uses the words "both" and "twain" in this passage who is referring to?

    Let me give you a little hint:

    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"
    (1 Cor.12:13).

    You can continue to run and hide from the truth and you can continue to call me a liar but the truth remains--the believing remnant out of Israel were made members of the Body of Christ!

  2. #557
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You failed to answer my simple question. What two groups are being referred to in the following passage written by Paul?:

    "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:13-16).

    When Paul uses the words "both" and "twain" in this passage who is referring to?

    Let me give you a little hint:

    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"
    (1 Cor.12:13).

    You can continue to run and hide from the truth and you can continue to call me a liar but the truth remains--the believing remnant out of Israel were made members of the Body of Christ!
    The way you "interpret" scripture, you're going to be a Universalist soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
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    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
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    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  3. #558
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The way you "interpret" scripture, you're going to be a Universalist soon.
    That doesn't answer my question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The REMNANT of Israel remain in THEIR calling.
    So the Jews mentioned in the following verse were not the remnant?:

    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

    These Jews were not members of the commonwealth of Israel before they were baptized into the Body of Christ?

    And their "calling" is not the same as the Gentile members of the Body of Christ?

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    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    That doesn't answer my question.

    So the Jews mentioned in the following verse were not the remnant?:

    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).
    No. The Jews Paul is talking about in that passage are not part of the Remnant. They are Jews who have become part of the Body of Christ.

    Post Acts 9, no Jew could enter into the covenant of circumcision as before. Yet those who had prior to Acts 9 didn't die when Israel was cut off, yet were still living. Those Jews are the Remnant. The Jews in the Body of Christ, where there is no distinction between Jew or gentile, are not.

    These Jews were not members of the commonwealth of Israel before they were baptized into the Body of Christ?
    The Remnant died off when the final Jew who entered into a relationship with God through the New Covenant died. If you mean to say that they became part of the Body of Christ, aka Christians, when they entered into that relationship, you would be wrong. But if you mean to say that they were baptised into His body, and became believers, and received salvation, then you would be correct.

    And their "calling" is not the same
    The Remnant's calling was not the same, no. The group called the Remnant no longer exists, and will not again until the Great Tribulation.

    as the Gentile members of the Body of Christ?
    The Jews saved after Paul became part of the Body of Christ, where there is no longer any distinction between Jew or Gentile.

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  6. #560
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    No. The Jews Paul is talking about in that passage are not part of the Remnant. They are Jews who have become part of the Body of Christ.
    Before becoming a part of the Body of Christ they were previously members of the commonwealth of Israel because we know that at one time they were under the law of Moses (Gal.3:23-25). Only those of Israel were under the law of Moses.

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    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Before becoming a part of the Body of Christ they were previously members of the commonwealth of Israel because we know that at one time they were under the law of Moses (Gal.3:23-25). Only those of Israel were under the law of Moses.
    Incorrect. The Jews who were in Christ prior to Paul (Acts 9) WERE NOT incorporated into the Body of Christ. They already had salvation in Christ. They didn't need to be saved again...

  8. #562
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Incorrect. The Jews who were in Christ prior to Paul (Acts 9) WERE NOT incorporated into the Body of Christ. They already had salvation in Christ. They didn't need to be saved again...
    No one said that they needed to be saved again. And you just completely ignored the evidence which I presented that proves that the believing remnant of Israel were indeed made members of the Body of Christ.

    Can you not even understand that in the following passage Paul is speaking about the Jews who were at one time under the law of Moses and therefore were also at one time members of the commonwealth of Israel?:

    "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith"
    (Gal.3:24).

    Only those who were members of the commonwealth of Israel lived under the law of Moses so Paul's words prove that the believing remnant out of Israel were members of the Body of Christ.

    After all, Paul speaks of those who were " in Christ" before he was (Ro.16:7) and it is an easy thing to know what the words "in Christ" refer to because earlier in the same epistle Paul wrote the following:

    "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another"
    (Ro.12;5).

  9. #563
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    No one said that they needed to be saved again. And you just completely ignored the evidence which I presented that proves that the believing remnant of Israel were indeed made members of the Body of Christ.
    There is nothing in Galatians 3:23-25 that says those who were saved prior to Paul were saved into the "Body of Christ."

    Those saved prior to Paul are "in Christ," but are not part of the "Body of Christ."

    Can you not even understand that in the following passage Paul is speaking about the Jews who were at one time under the law of Moses and therefore were also at one time members of the commonwealth of Israel?:
    "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith" (Gal.3:24).
    "In Christ" is not necessarily "in the Body of Christ."

    Only those who were members of the commonwealth of Israel lived under the law of Moses so Paul's words prove that the believing remnant out of Israel were members of the Body of Christ.
    Nope. Paul's words only confirm that those saved prior to him are "in Christ." It says nothing about being in the "Body of Christ."

    After all, Paul speaks of those who were " in Christ" before he was (Ro.16:7) and it is an easy thing to know what the words "in Christ" refer to because earlier in the same epistle Paul wrote the following:
    "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Ro.12;5).
    Why? Because you say so?

    "In Christ" does not necessarily mean "Body of Christ."

    Jerry, you've probably been asked this before, but it's such an excellent question, I really feel it needs to be answered.

    If those "in Christ" prior to Paul are part of the "Body of Christ," then... Why Paul? Why not just use the other 12 Apostles to go to the Gentiles?

    Also... Why does Paul say "in me first" in 1 Timothy 1:16, if he was not the first one in the "Body of Christ"?

    However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. - 1 Timothy 1:16 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

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  11. #564
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    There is nothing in Galatians 3:23-25 that says those who were saved prior to Paul were saved into the "Body of Christ."
    I quoted the verses to show that there were Jews in the Body of Christ who were previously under the law and therefore they were among the remnant of believers out of Israel. And here is exactly what happened to that remnant:

    "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
    (Eph.2:14-16).

    This is not difficult to understand. Here Paul speaks of two groups. One group is the believing remnant out of Israel and the other group is the believing Gentiles. Both groups were made members of the Body of Christ.

    That can only mean that the Twelve are members of the Body of Christ along with all of the rest of the believing Jews.

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    Over 1500 post club way 2 go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I quoted the verses to show that there were Jews in the Body of Christ who were previously under the law and therefore they were among the remnant of believers out of Israel. And here is exactly what happened to that remnant:

    "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
    (Eph.2:14-16).
    no

    Mat_19:28 Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

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