I guess Serpentdove is fine with legalizing pot, since he didn't respond to my argument against his stance?
The short version is, first of all, that this is technically talking about wine, not pot, and second, this is a moral command, not a proposed law. I agree that "Making your body the temple of the Holy Spirit" prevents someone from ethically smoking pot for a non-medical purpose, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. The Bible says that Christians shouldn't be busybodies, and shouldn't strive with men that haven't harmed them.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters [1 Pet. 4:15].
"Peter puts murder right down with gossiping and criticizing others; he makes no distinction between them at all. Paul did the same thing. Actually, Paul and Peter and James agree on everything. They are all preaching the same gospel that produces the same kind of a life.
Peter says that we ought not to be suffering for our own sins. God never tests you with sin, my friend; He never tests you with evil, as James makes clear to us in his epistle. Peter says, “Let none of you suffer as a murderer.” McGee, J. V. (1997). Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed.) (1 Pe 4:15). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
"1 Pe 4:15. Peter stressed that persecution was no excuse for lawlessness. Christians were not to retaliate (3:9). Physical violence was not to be met by murder. Confiscation of property was not to be compensated for by theft. No matter what their trials, Christians were to do nothing that would justify punishing them as criminals (cf. 2:19; 3:17). They were not to suffer as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. Even interfering in other people’s affairs is out of place for Christians (cf. 1 Tim. 5:13)." Raymer, R. M. (1985). 1 Peter. In J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck (Eds.), The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck, Ed.) (1 Pe 4:15). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.
@Serpent- I'm not sure how that's a refutation of what I said. The Bible is pretty clear that there are indeed different types of sins with different levels of punishment (At least, if you reject the purgatory explanation, and I do reject it.) I can't remember the text off hand, and its late, but its the one where Jesus says something along the lines of: "He who knows, and still commits sin, will be beaten with many stripes, he who doesn't know will be beaten with few..." (Note that that's a paraphrase.) Jesus also tells some Israelite town that "On the Day of Judgment it will be better off for Sodom and Gomorrah than for you." Note that there's clearly a different of degree. I have no doubt Sodom and Gomorrah were damned for their sins, but the Israelite town was even worse off.
All that said, its pretty clear as well that Paul doesn't consider any kind of sin, including being a busybody (Which all theocrats are, by definition) anything to kid around about.
Are All Sins Equal?
"...no work at all, but acting like busybodies. 2Th 3:11..." Thomas, R. L., & The Lockman Foundation. (1998). New American Standard exhaustive concordance of the Bible: Updated edition. Anaheim: Foundation Publications, Inc.
"...περιεργάζομαι [periergazomai /per·ee·er·gad·zom·ahee/] v. From 4012 and 2038; GK 4318; AV translates as “be a busybody” once. 1 to bustle about uselessly, to busy one’s self about trifling, needless, useless matters. 1A used apparently of a person officiously inquisitive about other’s affairs." Strong, J. (2001). Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon. Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.
I didn't say all sins were equal.All sins are not equal.
Are All Sins Equal?
You still haven't actually defended the prohibition of pot, Biblically. I don't think you can either, IIRC its not even in the Old Testament. Pulling out one verse in Ephesians, which isn't even a book of laws, and that specifically mentions wine, as a reason to throw people in prison is one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen.
To me its a personal liberty issue. There are a lot of those, so I don't usually obsess over this one, but its a matter of consistency. The golden rule applies. I may not like what someone is doing, but since I wouldn't want someone to interfere with my life if I wasn't hurting anyone else, I'll grant other people the same respect.
Now to some here, that makes me "Not a real Chrisitan" or whatever (See acw) but that is honestly what I believe the Bible teaches. NOWHERE does the NT support big government or banning every vice. In fact ,its debatable tha that's even in the OT, but its definitely not in the NT.
Aren't conservatives supposed to support smaller government (Supposedly)? I just take those ideas to their logical conclusion, as much as is possible.
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets [Matt. 7:12].
"All right, when you meet somebody new, how are you going to treat him? You don’t know—you are not to judge—but if he is a dog or a swine, you had better know. You have to beware of phonies today. So what do you do? Make it a matter of prayer. “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.” This is the principle on which you should operate. “Therefore” is the most important word in the Golden Rule. It relates the Golden Rule to that which precedes it. That is, it postulates it on prayer. It all comes together in one package. Don’t lift out the Golden Rule and say that you live by it. Understand what the Lord is talking about. Only as we “ask, seek, and knock” are we able to live in the light of the Golden Rule." McGee, J. V. (1991). Vol. 34: Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (Matthew 1-13) (electronic ed.) (102–103). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
How ya doing with that Golden Rule?
Last edited by serpentdove; May 11th, 2013 at 09:04 AM.
Last edited by serpentdove; June 26th, 2013 at 05:49 PM.
Heinous.Under legislation proposed by the mayor, all new buildings and buildings undergoing major renovation would be required to give occupants access to at least one stairwell, as well as post signs near elevators pointing to nearby stairs.
Another bill would increase the visibility of stairwells by permitting the use of hold-open devices on doors that would close automatically in case of an emergency.
Access to stairs, and increased visibility of stairs. And if that is not bad enough, SIGNS that say where the stairs are!?
What happened to freedom?
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
[Former U.S. Rep. Allen West’s prepared remarks for Western Conservative Summit] "...[W]hen you start choosing government, and not God, you start believing some nutty things.
See, if you believe that the words “separation of Church and State” are in the Constitution, but the right to bear arms isn’t – you might be a liberal.
If you believe in the right to choose an abortion, but not the size of your soda – you might be a liberal.
If you believe in getting government out of the bedroom, unless it’s taxpayer subsidized birth control – you might be a liberal.
And if believe that Barack Obama can lower the ocean seas and “heal the planet,” you must be a liberal!..." Full text: Former U.S. Rep. Allen West’s prepared remarks for Western Conservative Summit
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