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Thread: Matthew 12:40

  1. #76
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Ok, RD, you're good about sticking to scripture. The sign Jesus gave was the sign of Jonah. As Jonah was in the fish for three days and three nights so Jesus would be in the ground for three days and three nights.

    What was the sign? The sign was the amount of time he would be in the ground. How long did Jesus say he would be in the ground? Was it three days and three nights? Yes, three days and three nights.

    Is a night and a day a twenty-four hour period of time? If so, would three twenty-four hour periods of time equal 72 hours?

    Scripture does not say that Jesus was buried the same day that he died. This eliminates any part of Friday.

    Are you with those who claim that Jesus could not have possibly meant what he said?
    So are you trying to say that the Jews would have allowed Him to be buried on the Sabbath day?

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    Over 1000 post club JosephR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So are you trying to say that the Jews would have allowed Him to be buried on the Sabbath day?

    That's the point he could not die on Friday then rise Sunday if he was in the grave three days and nights


    Posted from the TOL App!

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So are you trying to say that the Jews would have allowed Him to be buried on the Sabbath day?
    Jesus died about 3 PM, the Sabbath began at 6 PM. Nisan 15 occurs on the full moon after the vernal equinox so an hour would be about 60 minutes giving approximately three hours to get Jesus buried. Joseph had to get permission to remove Jesus from the cross. By the time they got him buried the Nisan 15 Sabbath began.

    The KJV says the Sabbath "drew on" but the RSV gives a more accurate translation of the Greek epiphosko by saying the Sabbath was beginning.

    It was the day of Preparation and the sabbath was beginning. (Luke 23:54 RSV)

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So are you trying to say that the Jews would have allowed Him to be buried on the Sabbath day?
    If a man has committed a sin deserving of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day so that you do not defile the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God. (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    I guess that's done.

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    genuineoriginal,

    re: "Didn't you read the quote from Ignatius?"


    Indeed I did. What is your point?

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    steko,

    You have a question directed to you in post #61.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    steko,

    re: "The third day counting backward from Sunday would be Friday like we say, 'Three days ago such and such took place.'"


    If on the first day of the week, they said "One day ago such and such took place", to what day of the week would they be referring?
    I don't know that they would use such language but according to my use it would be the same as saying 'yesterday, such and such took place'.

    --------------------------------------------
    If one bases his understanding of the crucifixion week timeline on a presupposition that Matt 12:40 has to be a three X 24hr period and it can't be otherwise, then one must force the chronological narrative to fit. It's settled beforehand. It can't be otherwise.

    But, if one reads the chronological narratives, one discovers that Christ instructed His disciples to prepare(hetoimazo) the passover 'on the day that the passover lambs were killed'. This, by GOD's commandment is the afternoon of the 14th Nisan. Then, Jesus sat down with the twelve and ate the passover. This is after sundown, the beginning of the 15th Nisan. That same night, he was betrayed and taken into custody. The next morning, still the 15th, He was taken to Pilate, then crucified, died and was buried before the beginning of the 16th Nisan at sundown. Before this sundown was the preparation (paraskeue) for the weekly sabbath, the 16th of Nisan. Then, He rose from the dead early on the 17th, which was the first day of the week.
    There is not another day, and much less another two days(as some would have it) that can be pointed out in the chronological narratives.

    If the chronological narrative of the gospels is true, then Matt 12:40 is a Hebraism, a Jewish idiom, which does not mean a literal 72 hours, but are parts of a three day period.

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  11. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    genuineoriginal,

    re: "No, Matthew 12:40 is only a problem for those that choose to ignore the cultural understanding of time when the Gospels were written..."


    So to back up your assertion, how about providing an example from the time when the Gospels were written that shows a phrase stating a certain number of days and/or a certain number of nights for a period of time when the period absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?
    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Didn't you read the quote from Ignatius?
    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    genuineoriginal,

    re: "Didn't you read the quote from Ignatius?"


    Indeed I did. What is your point?
    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Ignatius - Epistle to the Trallians: IX

    On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified; at the ninth hour He gave up the ghost; and before sunset He was buried. During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathća had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection.
    The days we call Friday, Saturday, and Sunday are the three days and three nights, according to Ignatius.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Jesus died before Good Friday.

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    steko,

    re: "...according to my use it would be the same as saying 'yesterday, such and such took place'."


    And "yesterday" would be Saturday. So if Saturday was one day ago, then Friday would be two days ago, and Thursday would be three days ago and not Friday as you say in post #50.

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    genuineoriginal,

    re: "The days we call Friday, Saturday, and Sunday are the three days and three nights, according to Ignatius."

    I don't see where Ignatius provides an example from the time when the Gospels were written or before which shows a phrase stating a certain number of days and/or a certain number of nights to be contained in a period of time when the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    steko,

    re: "...according to my use it would be the same as saying 'yesterday, such and such took place'."


    And "yesterday" would be Saturday. So if Saturday was one day ago, then Friday would be two days ago, and Thursday would be three days ago and not Friday as you say in post #50.
    You're still not understanding the Hebrew idiom whereby any part of a day is a day. You're stuck on the 24 hour thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You're still not understanding the Hebrew idiom whereby any part of a day is a day. You're stuck on the 24 hour thing.
    The Greek epiphosko proves you wrong.

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    The Greek epiphosko proves you wrong.
    Can you please show me a verse where that is used? You never give any references so that we can follow along.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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