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Thread: Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

  1. #91
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    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timotheos View Post
    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?
    It is biblical.

    There will be no rest or peace for the wicked.

    God Bless America

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    STAND UP Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekel View Post
    Revelations 14:9-11

    From this verse it is clear, at least to my mind, that hell is eternal torment, with no rest.
    Yep.


    Revelation 14 KJV
    (9) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    (11) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    God Bless America

  4. #94
    Silver Member Totton Linnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timotheos View Post
    I would have to throw out the bible to believe in eternal conscious torment. The Bible does not supprt ECT. I have not thrown out the Bible. The Bible supports Conditional Immortality, only those who receive eternal life from Jesus Christ will receive eternal life. Those who do not have eternal life will perish.
    Matt.25.46
    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into life eternal.

    If you say that the punishment is not everlasting then you must also say the life is not eternal.
    One lavished upon in the Beloved
    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/blog.php?u=10603

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    Silver Member Totton Linnet's Avatar
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    Why should the devil not be punished eternally? why should not the servants of the devil? are you able to discern the depths of the wickedness of murder? should you not rather trust in the judgement of the only One who can?

    God's righteousness will be vindicated.
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    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/blog.php?u=10603

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totton Linnet View Post
    Matt.25.46
    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment but the righteous into life eternal.

    If you say that the punishment is not everlasting then you must also say the life is not eternal.
    Hi, I believe the punishment is everlasting, but the punishment doesn't consist of torture. The wages of sin is death. According to the Bible, Death is the punishment for sin. Death is everlasting for those who do not accept Jesus Christ and receive eternal life from Him. The life is eternal, for those who receive eternal life. For those who do not receive eternal life, their life is not eternal. They perish, just as the Bible says. I've heard your argument before, Augustine wrote something similar to it, so you are in good company. But I have to reject this argument from you and Augustine because not all punishment is torment, and death is also an eternal punishment. And througout the Bible the punishment for sin is always death.
    Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death,
    John 3:16 whoever believes will not perish,
    2 Thess 1:9, they pay the penalty of eternal destruction,
    Ezekiel 18:4, the soul who sins will die,
    Psalm 37:20, the wicked will perish,
    Psalm 37:10, the wicked will be no more,
    Revelation 20:14, the lake of fire is the second death,
    Matthew 7:13, the way is wide that leads to destruction,

    There are many more passages like this, do I need to go on?

    May God richly bless you forever and ever.

  7. #97
    Does Whatever A Light-House Can Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timotheos View Post
    Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?
    The issue is that most people don't understand what the torment is; they think it means torture.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomlapalm View Post
    It is not that torment is for all time, it is just that time doesn't exist. (the clock doesn't move)
    But the people do?


  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Lighthouse For Your Post:

    Tambora (May 1st, 2016)

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    Perish is jail is not cessation. Perish does not mean cessation in light of other relevant verses. You simply beg the question and use circular reasoning.
    Why do you say "Perish is jail, not cessation"? In your experience does everyone who goes to jail perish there? I would have the county look into that. You may have larger problems down at the jail house than you and I have on TOL. If a person perishes, they die. That's what perish means. Tell me the verses you are thinking of that prove that perish actually means "will not perish".

    I don't understand why you think that I am begging the question and using circular reasoning. Can you give me an example? I believe your side is begging the question. Here's my example for you to think about. We are asking the question, what is the punishment for sin, death or eternal conscious torment?" Your side uses Matthew 25:46 as proof that the punishment is eternal conscious torment and not death. They say, "See the Bible shows that there is eternal punishment." This is begging the question because it assumes that the eternal punishment is eternal conscious torment. It's circular reasoning to say "Eternal punishment means eternal conscious torment because the bible says that there is eternal punishment." The real question is, "What does that eternal punishment consist of, Death or ECT?"

    Speaking of logical fallacies, you've committed two of them, not including the begging the question, I don't know if that was you or someone else. You committed the fallacy of "poisoning the well" when you tried to associate my view with a certain cult. And you committed the Ad Hominem fallacy when you said that anyone who believes what I believe is a heretic.

    Thank you for posting here, I enjoy discussing this with you. It really shows the inconsistency of the ECT position.

    May the good Lord keep you in good health and prosperity this year.

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    Why do you focus on the darkness, rather than the Light of the world?
    Ummm, because some people claim that God sends his enemies to a torture pit and keeps them alive there being tortured (I call it like I see it) forever and ever. Why does a lamp focus light in the dark places? To expose the error that lies hidden in the dark. Yes, let's forget this false doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell and focus on the Light of the world who came to rescue us from death and give us eternal life. Bless you Ktoyou, God willing we will move on from this present darkness into the light of God's truth. But as long as people are trapped in this dark pit of error, people like you and I need to shine a light in and show them the way out.

  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    This is the best argument for ECT that I've seen. Now I'm convinced, however have you considered -

  12. #101
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    If punishment is not everlasting, then grammatically, neither is life.
    huh?

    the opposite of eternal life is death

    like in the second death
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    huh?

    the opposite of eternal life is death

    like in the second death
    You mean death is actually (gasp!) DEATH?
    How Godawful is that??? I don't want to die (Waaaaahhhhh!)
    How can I keep from dying? What must I do to inherit eternal life?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Neg rep for calling scripture a doctrine of demons. Repent you demon possessed perverted of the truth.
    Neg rep for calling someone a demon possessed perverted of the truth.

  15. #104
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timotheos View Post
    How can I keep from dying? What must I do to inherit eternal life?
    Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your entire house.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your entire house.
    Okay, I've done that. So now I'm saved from the second death, which is death?

    So what is this garbage I keep hearing about eternal life in hell being tormented alive forever after death? How can people be tortured alive forever when they are dead if they don't also have eternal life? Who invented this fresh nonsense?

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