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Thread: Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

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    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Right...die...not remain being tormented for eternity...as sin will be removed...no more
    That's diametrically opposed to what Scripture teaches.

    And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

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    Over 2000 post club way 2 go's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    So...as a child getting spanked...you are still being spanked?...
    Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

    the duration of the punishment or reward is determined by the word in front of it "eternal"

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    ok doser,
    Your reply from post #7942: re: "...to return to belief in God (which is where i think this started), i could consciously choose to reject God[.] I consciously choose not to"


    Consciously choosing to reject a supreme being is not the same as consciously choosing to believe that one doesn't exist.

    So right now, while you are reading this, can you consciously choose to believe - be convinced - that a supreme being doesn't exist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    The Bible might not need as many words as you...but it certainly does describe love...and a command we love others (enemies included)...as He loved us...

    Feel free to read for yourself His examples of that love...
    It would be much better if you’d actually adhere to the authentic word meanings instead of subjective assessments and determinations based on eisegetic presuppositions of alleged “examples” that you falsely presume are love according to your own diluted definition/s rather than the actual Greek words that are translated into English.

    “Describing” is your subjective determinations. “Defining” is what I did. The latter is the only one of the two that is accutate, but of course you can’t ever face being wrong and being corrected; not even by the divinely inspired text. This leaves you in a horrible position: a god to yourself. Sad.
    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    ok doser,
    Your reply from post #7942: re: "...to return to belief in God (which is where i think this started), i could consciously choose to reject God[.] I consciously choose not to"


    Consciously choosing to reject a supreme being is not the same as consciously choosing to believe that one doesn't exist.

    So right now, while you are reading this, can you consciously choose to believe - be convinced - that a supreme being doesn't exist?
    This is a horrific and non-sensical question directly from extremely corrupted epistemics. It would have to be reframed to the point that it isn’t even this question. This query demonstrates a complete ignorance of epistemology and a number of other things. It’s not even possible to give a rational response because it’s such a wrong question. Sigh.
    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
    ok doser,
    Your reply from post #7942: re: "...to return to belief in God (which is where i think this started), i could consciously choose to reject God[.] I consciously choose not to"


    Consciously choosing to reject a supreme being is not the same as consciously choosing to believe that one doesn't exist.

    So right now, while you are reading this, can you consciously choose to believe - be convinced - that a supreme being doesn't exist?
    "So right now, while you are reading this, can you consciously choose to believe - be convinced - that a supreme being doesn't exist?"

    no, not right now, while i am reading this

    i could, right now, choose to start the process that would lead to being convinced that a supreme being doesn't exist

    it would necessarily involve self-inflicted brain damage

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    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    This is a horrific and non-sensical question directly from extremely corrupted epistemics. It would have to be reframed to the point that it isn’t even this question. This query demonstrates a complete ignorance of epistemology and a number of other things. It’s not even possible to give a rational response because it’s such a wrong question. Sigh.
    my rational response necessarily involves self-inflicted irrationality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    That's diametrically opposed to what Scripture teaches.

    And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    Cast in to...DIE...final...not burn forever...and like sin...will be no more...

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

    the duration of the punishment or reward is determined by the word in front of it "eternal"
    Is it?

    A man executed as punishment is eternally in the process of being executed? Or is the resulting consequence of his punishment eternal...

    This is what is meant by the wages of sin is death...eternal

    Dead know nothing...eternally

    Shall perish...be destroyed...the consequence is a finality...eternallly...and not an on going process of being punished in a punishing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Cast in to...DIE...final...not burn forever...and like sin...will be no more...
    You can deny Scripture all you want, it won't remove the print from Bibles all over the world.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    It would be much better if you’d actually adhere to the authentic word meanings instead of subjective assessments and determinations based on eisegetic presuppositions of alleged “examples” that you falsely presume are love according to your own diluted definition/s rather than the actual Greek words that are translated into English.

    “Describing” is your subjective determinations. “Defining” is what I did. The latter is the only one of the two that is accutate, but of course you can’t ever face being wrong and being corrected; not even by the divinely inspired text. This leaves you in a horrible position: a god to yourself. Sad.
    What is sad is you fall for that famous lie...”you shall not surely die”

    However man is NEVER immortal...there is only One Who is...

    Man instead was created to live forever but dependent on the tree of life...without it there is no life sustained...physical or spiritual or whatever other state of existence you wringe out of your pagan laced verbage...

    Those not with Him...ARE NO MORE...like tha sin which separated them from Him...GONE

    they have NO ACCESS to the tree of life...thus DIE...final...GONE

    If there remains those tormented in a hell...then there remains sin...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    You can deny Scripture all you want, it won't remove the print from Bibles all over the world.
    Fear the One Who can destroy both body and soul...

    Destroy...not sustain to torment...

    He ALONE is immortal...the ones in heaven are NOT immortal but eat from the tree of life...

    but yours would have those in hell immortal too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Cast in to...DIE...final...not burn forever...and like sin...will be no more...
    To die means to be separated.

    Physically dying is to be separated from one's body, and everyone they know.

    Spiritually dying is to be separated from God.

    It NEVER means "cessation of existence."

    Clefty, was the girl in Matthew 9:24 actually dead, or was she just asleep?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    What is sad is you fall for that famous lie...”you shall not surely die”
    What’s sad is that you quote that phrase regarding eating of the Tree of Life, and have no idea what death means in Hebrew OR Greek (instead pursuing English conceptualizations of annihilation).

    However man is NEVER immortal...there is only One Who is...
    Says the guy who has NO idea what Hebrew and Greek words mean, but regurgitates subjective nothingness in conflict with Hebrew and Greek word meanings.

    Man instead was created to live forever but dependent on the tree of life...without it there is no life sustained...physical or spiritual or whatever other state of existence you wringe out of your pagan laced verbage...
    And now the pagan is calling others pagan. Typical heretic shenanigans.

    Those not with Him...ARE NO MORE...like tha sin which separated them from Him...GONE
    Thanatos (death) NEVER means annihilation, eradication, or elimination, et al. NEVER.

    they have NO ACCESS to the tree of life...thus DIE...final...GONE
    And if you knew what thanatos (death) was and means, you’d know what die means.

    If there remains those tormented in a hell...then there remains sin...
    You have no idea what hamartia (sin) is, so your continued flailing is duly noted.
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    ok doser,
    re: "i could, right now, choose to start the process that would lead to being convinced that a supreme being doesn't exist"

    How would you know when you were convinced?

    On 2nd thought, never mind. I was initially responding to Arthur Brain about his comment regarding beliefs and just realized I'm guilty of starting a different topic from the OP.

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