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Thread: Bible Study - the Book of Job

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    God actually did make it easy for an evil doer (Satan) to attack a righteous man, by withdrawing His hand of protection.




    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    Correct and i agree that they were basing their assumption on the appearance of the circumstances and not the character of Job. (and i agree completely with your assessment - but playing advocate here:

    I would like to ask though about the bolded red portion, Why would a believer in God, believe that it would be possible for God to withdraw protection from a righteous man? Would not that be what Jobs friends may have been thinking and would not that also be what many of us (humans) would think as well at times since we are not privy to 100 percent of someone elses actions?

    Would it make sense normally for God to withhold mercy and protection on one who loves Him and serves Him unconditionally?
    Good question.

    My answer would be:
    The word of God.
    Creation itself.


    Not only do we have the word of God giving us examples of both the wicked and righteous in disastrous situations, but also both the wicked and righteous in prosperous situations.

    And by observing creation itself, we see that the rain falls and the sun shines on the wicked and righteous alike.

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    God actually did make it easy for an evil doer (Satan) to attack a righteous man, by withdrawing His hand of protection.






    Good question.

    My answer would be:
    The word of God.
    Creation itself.


    Not only do we have the word of God giving us examples of both the wicked and righteous in disastrous situations, but also both the wicked and righteous in prosperous situations.

    And by observing creation itself, we see that the rain falls and the sun shines on the wicked and righteous alike.

    Good answer.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

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    Veteran Jason0047's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    And by observing creation itself, we see that the rain falls and the sun shines on the wicked and righteous alike.
    Dear T:

    I love the passage....

    Matthew 5:44-45 - "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

    In other words, it allows for the vehicle of faith to be in full force or effect. If some people noticed that worshiping God and loving all people brought them good things (in this world) and that not worshiping Him and not loving people would bring them only bad things (in this world) then it would no longer be faith, but it would be by what they would could get out of God here in this life (by observing such a thing with their own two eyes). It would be based upon the love of what things they could get in this physical world (1 John 2:15); And that is not faith.

    However, the Scriptures make it clear that we are to be crucified to ourselves and to put on Christ and to endure persecution for His name sake (Romans 12:1) (Mark 4:17). This is the thing Job wanted to avoid in Job chapter 6 when he said for the Lord to take his suffering with the ending of his life. But Job endured persecution & he was an example for us; For Job proved & or defined what true faith really is.
    Last edited by Jason0047; February 5th, 2013 at 07:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    And by observing creation itself, we see that the rain falls and the sun shines on the wicked and righteous alike.


    Dear T:

    I love the passage....

    Matthew 5:44-45 - "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."

    In other words, it allows for the vehicle of faith to be in full force or effect. If some people noticed that worshiping God and loving all people brought them good things (in this world) and that not worshiping Him and not loving people would bring them only bad things (in this world) then it would no longer be faith, but it would be by what they would could get out of God here in this life (by observing such a thing with their own two eyes). It would be based upon the love of what things they could get in this physical world (1 John 2:15); And that is not faith.

    However, the Scriptures make it clear that we are to be crucified to ourselves and to put on Christ and to endure persecution for His name sake (Romans 12:1) (Mark 4:17). This is the thing Job wanted to avoid in Job chapter 6 when he said for the Lord to take his suffering with the ending of his life. However, Job needed to endure persecution as an example for us and to prove and define what true faith really is.
    Good point.

    And I'm glad you posted the scripture Matthew 5:44-45.
    I meant to put in parenthesis after my statement you quoted above, but forgot to.

    I think it fits in well with our study.
    The friends should have comforted Job simply because it is the right thing to do for one in such agony.
    It shouldn't have mattered whether Job was an upright man or not.
    The question of "WHY" he was in agony should not have been a factor at all.

    And in fact, we will find out by the end of this book that God never gives the answer as to "WHY" Job had suffered.
    If not for us being told what went on behind the scene, we would never know either.

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Dear T:

    Thank you.

    Oh, and speaking of Job's lack of enthusiasm to endure persecution in Job 6:

    Even Jesus recoiled at the taking on of everyones sins that was inside the cup at the Garden of Gethsmane, as well (Matthew 26:39). However, Christ was God Almighty in the flesh and He had the strength to take upon all our sins in the garden and then be crushed, bruised, and pierced for our transgressions and iniquities (Isaiah 53:5) (John 19:1-2) (John 19:17-37). Which of course, as you know, all this persecution was done by our Lord so that our eternal souls could be saved (John 3:16).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Good point.

    And I'm glad you posted the scripture Matthew 5:44-45.
    I meant to put in parenthesis after my statement you quoted above, but forgot to.

    I think it fits in well with our study.
    The friends should have comforted Job simply because it is the right thing to do for one in such agony.
    It shouldn't have mattered whether Job was an upright man or not.
    The question of "WHY" he was in agony should not have been a factor at all.


    And in fact, we will find out by the end of this book that God never gives the answer as to "WHY" Job had suffered.
    If not for us being told what went on behind the scene, we would never know either.
    Like this:

    Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

    34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

    41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
    43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

    44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’
    45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
    46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

    It appears that Job's friends were not doing those things, but judging Job instead.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    Like this:

    Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

    34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

    41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
    43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

    44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’
    45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
    46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

    It appears that Job's friends were not doing those things, but judging Job instead.
    Yes, another good one.

    And yet we still have scripture that does tell us to judge others.

    That's why I sorta cringe sometimes when I see folks say things like:

    • "Do not judge .... PERIOD".



    or


    • "Do not kill .... PERIOD".



    Because it does depend on the situation.

    One of my all time favorite verses are:
    Ecclesiastes 3 KJV
    (1) To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    (2) A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
    (3) A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
    (4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
    (5) A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
    (6) A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
    (7) A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
    (8) A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
    So, at any given time, and at any given situation, you need to ask, "What time is it?"






    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Yes, another good one.

    And yet we still have scripture that does tell us to judge others.

    That's why I sorta cringe sometimes when I see folks say things like:

    • "Do not judge .... PERIOD".



    or


    • "Do not kill .... PERIOD".



    Because it does depend on the situation.

    One of my all time favorite verses are:
    Ecclesiastes 3 KJV
    (1) To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    (2) A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
    (3) A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
    (4) A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
    (5) A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
    (6) A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
    (7) A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
    (8) A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
    So, at any given time, and at any given situation, you need to ask, "What time is it?"





    I completely agree, by the word judging (as in jobs friends) I was meaning that they were not practicing righteous judgment, in that they had nothing in which to judge Job for, other than their own thoughts and experiences, but nothing that Job did.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    I completely agree, by the word judging (as in jobs friends) I was meaning that they were not practicing righteous judgment, in that they had nothing in which to judge Job for, other than their own thoughts and experiences, but nothing that Job did.
    Exactly.

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Chapter 9 - Job responds to Bildad






    In Chapters 9 -10 Job will respond to Bildad.

    And this is where it really starts to get interesting!
    Not that it hasn’t been interesting up till now, but now things really start to get deep.
    And I believe it to show that Job’s spiritual seeking and longing of God is far deeper than that of his friends.
    The friends focus on God as some sort of powerful slave master that continually keeps His subjects in line, as is His right to do.
    Job sees God as so much more.

    Job realizes that Bildad has insinuated that just because Job has maintained his innocence, that he is somehow placing himself on the same level as God --- ie. perfect and upright as God is perfect and upright.

    So, Job sets the record straight.



    Job 9 KJV
    (1) Then Job answered and said,
    (2) I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
    (3) If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
    (4) He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
    (5) Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
    (6) Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
    (7) Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
    (8) Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
    (9) Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.


    Job tells Bildad that he is well aware the gap between man & God is too vast and beyond any comparison.
    It would be completely foolish for any man to even attempt to compare himself to God.
    So foolish that it seems like any bridge building or settlement between man & God is utterly hopeless.
    In fact, it would be foolish for any part of creation to attempt to think it could have anywhere near the power or wisdom of God.
    No power or wisdom of man, creature, mountain, earth, star, galaxy, etc. would have a chance; and all are under the complete control of God.



    I’m ending this post at this point, because I would like to interject some interesting background tidbits that I am working on for the star constellations mentioned in verse 9 in my next post.

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    The Constellations

    This post is an interlude of tidbits about the constellations in verse 9 of my previous post.
    (A special thanks to Clete for providing help with this information.)

    Scripture tells us:
    The heavens declare the glory of God - Psalms 19:1
    The theologian, E.W. Bullinger, wrote a book many years ago titled:
    The Witness of the Stars.
    In this book he describes the Hebrew names of the stars and constellations, and how these stars reveal the story of redemption from beginning to end.




    Job 9
    (9) Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.



    Arcturus
    = the bear
    It is the constellation we know of as Ursa Major.





    Some of you may be familiar with the well know part of this constellation known as The Big Dipper (the tail and backside portion).

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I read where Ursa Major can only be seen in the Northern hemisphere, and is not seen in the Southern.
    Which may have something to do with the meaning in verse 9 of "chambers of the south" (chambers would be secret/hidden).

    For those interested, here is the link to the chapter that contains Ursa Major (under the 3rd picture on the page) of Bullinger's book The Witness of the Stars.
    http://www.levendwater.org/books/witness/chap33.htm




    Orion and Pleiades

    (Pleiades is a cluster in the neck of Taurus)






    What is really interesting about these is what we learn later in chapter 38, which mentions these again.
    Job 38 KJV
    (31) Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
    God asks Job if he was able to bind Pleiades, or lose the bands (belt) of Orion as He (God) has done.

    We now know that it is a fact that the stars in the belt of Orion are not gravitationally bound together (ie.they are loosed) , while the stars in Pleiades are gravitationally bound!!!!!
    It takes us puny humans a while to figure out some of the things God has already told us thousands of years ago.


    "Gravitationally bound" is like the moon is to the earth. When the earth moves around the sun, the moon moves with earth because the gravitational pull of the earth hold the moon with it.
    In other words, wherever the earth moves to, the moon has to move with it.

    It is the same with the stars in Pleiades. They are gravitationally bound together.
    But the stars in Orion's belt are not.


    For those interested, here is the link to the chapter that contains Taurus (with Pleiades) and Orion (under the 1st and 3rd pictures on the page) of Bullinger's book The Witness of the Stars.
    http://www.levendwater.org/books/witness/chap31.htm




    Taurus (which contains Pleiades) is a Zodiac constellation.
    Ursa Major and Orion are not.

    Zodiac constellations are those that the Sun passes through on its path across the sky over a year's time.

    Here is a pic where you can see all three in relation to each other.
    Ursa Major in the top left portion.
    Orion and Taurus in the bottom center portion.



    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    God said to Abraham,

    "'Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.' And He said to him, 'So shall your descendants be.'"(Gen 15:5).

    And through the prophet Jeremiah,

    "'As the host of heaven (stars) cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant'" (Jeremiah 33:22).

    And finally, in the New Testament,

    "Therefore from one man, ...were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude-- innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore." (Hebrews 11:12)

    Before the invention of the telescope in 1608, scientists throughout history, including the famous astronomer Ptolemy (150 AD), taught that the total number of stars in the heavens was under 3000. On a clear night the naked eye can only count about 1000 stars. However, because of telescopes such as the Hubble, we now know there are countless billions upon billions of stars in the universe - just as God had revealed to us several thousand years ago through the Bible.

    However, the really mind blowing thing to ponder is that God has named each and every one of these billions of stars. Which is just absolutely amazing!

    Psalm 147:4 KJ2 - "He determines the number of the stars; he calls them all by their names."

    Isaiah 40:26 - "Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth."
    Last edited by Jason0047; February 7th, 2013 at 06:12 PM.

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    However, speaking more specifically of Astronomy and the book of Job, though:

    With the earth, the terminator occurs not on a cratered rocky surface, but primarily on water (since the earth’s surface is 70 percent water). Job 26:10 suggests a “God’s eye” view of the earth. This biblical passage would be nonsense if the earth were flat, since there would be no true terminator; there is no line to “step over” that separates the day from night on a flat surface. Either it is day everywhere or night everywhere on a hypothetical “flat earth.” However, the earth does indeed have a boundary between light and darkness which is always a circle since the earth is round or a sphere.

    Job 26:10 HCSB -

    "He laid out the horizon on the surface of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness."


    Article Source:
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...confirms-bible
    Last edited by Jason0047; February 11th, 2014 at 09:35 PM.

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    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora
    It gave me no comfort to have folks quote scripture to me (I already knew them), or even say that he is in a better place now (I already knew that). Who comforted me the most was my sister. She didn’t try to tell me to sit and calm down. She wrapped her arms around me while I was sobbing uncontrollably, and said, “Go ahead and cry all you want to, honey, I’m here for you and I’ll cry with you”
    That's both touching and beautiful. She truly gave herself and let you be yourself, which is what humans need from each other. Thank you for sharing this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Good point.

    And I'm glad you posted the scripture Matthew 5:44-45.
    I meant to put in parenthesis after my statement you quoted above, but forgot to.

    I think it fits in well with our study.
    The friends should have comforted Job simply because it is the right thing to do for one in such agony.
    It shouldn't have mattered whether Job was an upright man or not.
    The question of "WHY" he was in agony should not have been a factor at all.

    And in fact, we will find out by the end of this book that God never gives the answer as to "WHY" Job had suffered.
    If not for us being told what went on behind the scene, we would never know either.
    Tambora,

    Great work so far.

    And in fact, we will find out by the end of this book that God never gives the answer as to "WHY" Job had suffered.
    If not for us being told what went on behind the scene, we would never know either.
    Please refer to my post 64

    Job openly admits that it was his fear that brought the calamity upon him.

    He was afraid that his sons and daughters were sinning. He did not bother to find out. Job 1:5

    Instead, he let his fears fester, until his fears overcame his right believing, then God righteously had to let Satan attack, for Job at this point was letting fear, not his love and obedience to God, rule his life.

    Therefore, God so often tells us,

    Fear not

    Fear not

    Fear not.

    Fear is the believers greatest enemy. Satan gives mankind many excuses to be fearful.

    But God alleviates all our fears when we trust in Him, by trusting His word, the scriptures.

    God's love to us is the solution to our fear problem, for it is by His love to us that we are more than conquerors.

    It is not by his might, or power or light that we are more than conquerors, but by his love. Romans 8:37.

    Of course, that love to us will involve his might, his power and his light, mercy, grace, etc. but it is His love that is the root of our victory over evil and sin and fear.

    oatmeal
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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