User Tag List

Page 5 of 14 FirstFirst ... 2345678 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 204

Thread: Bible Study - the Book of Job

  1. #61
    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    11,608
    Thanks
    17,546
    Thanked 16,641 Times in 9,475 Posts

    Mentioned
    50 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147680
    Good work, Tam!

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to steko For Your Post:

    LoneStar (May 6th, 2016),Tambora (May 5th, 2016)

  3. #62
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    16,027
    Thanks
    21,968
    Thanked 16,212 Times in 10,287 Posts

    Blog Entries
    52
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147709
    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    This chapter may be a bit painful for some who have recently suffered a loss or affliction.
    It will remind you of emotions you felt.
    But please, keep reading, for it may also help to alleviate any guilt you may have felt for being angry or crying out “God, why have you done this?” during that time.

    Job 6 KJV
    (1) But Job answered and said,
    (2) Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
    (3) For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
    Many translations have this as “my words are rash” (verse 3).
    Job is in severe anguish and pain. It is overwhelming and consuming.
    He’s not holding anything back. He is telling it like it is.

    If his grief were measured with the calamity that fell upon him, his grief would far outweigh them.
    On the side of the balance where his grief is, it would be as heavy as all the sand.

    Anyone who has ever lifted a small bag of sand knows ….. IT’s HEAVY!
    And that’s just one small bag. Image ALL the sand.

    Job is doing his best to describe just how much grief he is feeling.




    (4) For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
    Make no mistake; while it was Satan doing the direct attack on Job, it would not have happened unless God Himself had pulled back His protective hand. If not for that action of God Himself, this would not have happened.

    Doesn’t matter if one person does good things for you, and another does bad things against you; BOTH were allowed by God to do so.




    (5) Doth the wild *** bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
    (6) Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
    Job describes 2 scenarios here.
    If one receives what is satisfactory, one does not cry out.
    If one receives what is not satisfactory, one does not want to have anything to do with it.

    Job is using a poetic description of the “comfort” his friend was serving up to him compared with food/meat.
    If that comfort were indeed satisfactory, Job would swallow it.
    If not satisfactory, Job would not swallow it.




    (7) The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
    His friend had been offering up the “meat” (that Job had committed some wrong deed).
    Job wasn’t going to swallow that sorrowful meat at all! For he knows he had always refused that “meat”.





    (8) Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
    (9) Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
    (10) Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
    Job’s request was for God to take his life, let him die. That would be a sweet release he would welcome from God. Even for death, Job would not conceal the words of God.
    As he said in chapter 1, the Lord gives and the Lord takes away.
    Job realized that his life and his death were in the sure hands of the Lord, and no one else.






    (11) What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
    (12) Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
    (13) Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
    Again, Job describes his sorrow and pain in such poetic majesty.
    I’m flesh and blood, with feelings. Not some piece of stone or brass that feels nothing.
    And even a healthy body does not hold up as long as a piece of stone or brass would.

    While a healthy body can have some amazing strengths to heal itself, an unhealthy body falls prey to deterioration.
    Job knows this. He knows his body cannot last much longer in the shape it is in.
    The light is growing dim.

    .
    .
    .
    .


    This post is already long, so I will continue chapter 6 in the next post, when Job really lays it on the line what he thinks about the “comfort” from his friend.
    As if his suffering isn't already worse than anything they could imagine, he has to defend himself of false accusations too!!!!

    I can almost hear the wheels turning in Job’s mind ….. “With friends like you, who needs enemies!






    Excellent commentary and well needed
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Angel4Truth For Your Post:

    LoneStar (May 6th, 2016),Tambora (May 5th, 2016)

  5. #63
    Over 3000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,639
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 100 Times in 82 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    34202
    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    This will be a chapter by chapter study of the book of Job.

    Job is an interesting study.

    We have the privilege of knowing what went on behind the scene.
    Job and his friends didn't.

    The dialogues between Job and his friends are going to cause us to ponder a lot about how we approach theology.

    We are going to see that Job's friends were wrong, even though their theology could be said to be sound.
    They basically tell Job that he must have done something offensive, otherwise this calamity would not have befallen him.
    You reap what you sow.
    That's scriptural and sound theology, and is the basis of the theology of Job's friends.
    Problem is, even though it was sound theology, it was wrong in the case of Job.

    Sometimes sound theology is not as black and white as one would wish.
    There always seems to be an exception somewhere.
    And this is why we often see one scripture pitted against another, as if one is right and the other wrong.
    When the fact is, both are right, but it depends on the situation at hand.

    There is a time and place for everything under the sun.
    The question one should always ask first is ..... what time is it?



    So, let us begin to study and discuss the book of Job.

    God bless our studies.






    Tambora,

    Good words:

    We are going to see that Job's friends were wrong, even though their theology could be said to be sound.
    They basically tell Job that he must have done something offensive, otherwise this calamity would not have befallen him.
    You reap what you sow.
    That's scriptural and sound theology, and is the basis of the theology of Job's friends.
    Problem is, even though it was sound theology, it was wrong in the case of Job.
    I expect the rest of your thread will follow in kind.

    oatmeal
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

  6. #64
    Over 3000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,639
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 100 Times in 82 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    34202
    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Eliphaz came as a friend to comfort Job.
    Job had become desolate with nothing.
    His body had become so distorted that his friends couldn't even recognize him.
    His pain never ceased.
    In later chapters we will get further insight of how the public had been treating Job. They had scorned him, made him an outcast, laughed and mocked at him, physically attacked him while he is defenseless, and even spit on him as they walked by.
    The children even made up mocking songs about him.

    So, let's see how Eliphaz decides to comfort Job, after just hearing the great lamentation from Job.




    Job 4 KJV
    (1) Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
    (2) If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
    If you will think about your own situations in life, you will realize that we have just about all used this tactic when we have a friend who is angry or upset and starts complaining. We say things like,
    Please don’t get mad at me for pointing this out, but you asked, so I‘m gonna be upfront with you and tell it like it is".



    (3) Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
    (4) Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
    (5) But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.

    To paraphrase:

    “Haven’t you seen others in the situation you are now in, Job? Didn’t you counsel them?
    Now it is you in the predicament, and you are the one in need of being counseled.
    You should practice what you preach, Job.”.




    (6) Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
    I do find it interesting that the same characteristics of Job are mentioned that we learned about him (behind the scene).
    He feared the Lord and was upright.
    Eliphaz seems to recognize that this was the correct characterization of Job, and thus, he was blessed for it ….. in the past.
    But what about now, Job? Why have things drastically changed for you now?




    (7) Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
    (8) Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
    (9) By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
    Sound doctrine.
    You reap what you sow.
    We see many examples in scripture of God richly bestowing blessings on the righteous, but famine, plagues, and despair are cursed upon the wicked.

    But is this true in the case of Job?
    NO!
    (((Reminder: Job, himself, was blameless for all the suffering that befell upon him.)))




    (10) The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.
    (11) The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.

    These are verses that actually make me kinda mad at Eliphaz.
    It seems as if he is purposely using the metaphors of the old powerful lion and his young lions becoming desolate and broken as an implication of what has happened to Job and his children.



    Eliphaz does not implicitly say that Job is being afflicted because of some wrong doing he has done.
    But the implications are still there, and perhaps he is hoping Job will recognize it.

    Sorta like when Nathan told David about a man’s only little lamb being stolen from him (2 Samuel 12).
    He was really setting David up to realize how bad that was. And Nathan was using that analogy to really show David wrong doing in stealing another man’s wife (Bathsheba).


    Eliphaz starts off rather mildly with just hints of his true feelings about the situation.
    As the dialogues with him and the other friends progresses, they will become more direct and outspoken of their accusations toward Job.


    I realize Eliphaz (as a friend) is trying his level best to be helpful to Job.
    But man, to start bringing into the conversation implications about one’s children is just sooooooooo wrong to do right after one (Job) has just lost all his children.
    To me, that is just downright inappropriate, and will being no comfort at all to a grieving one.




    (12) Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
    (13) In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
    (14) Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
    (15) Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
    (16) It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
    (17) Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
    (18) Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
    (19) How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
    (20) They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.
    (21) Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.

    Hmmmm.
    How many times have you heard one say to another, I have direct knowledge given me through a vision, or a dream, or a still small voice from a spirit being?
    Sound doctrine. We have many instances in scripture where revelation was given to man through such.
    And it is true that no creature formed is more pure than the Creator.

    But what does this have to do with Job’s situation??????

    (((Reminder: Job, himself, was blameless for all the suffering that befell upon him.)))

    The problem I see with this statement (by the spirit being) is that it is only a partial truth. It paints mankind in a seemingly hopeless perpetual unworthy state, and completely leaves out any hope or remedy of being cleansed from that state.

    So, what exactly did the spirit being say that was supposed to comfort Job?

    Another partial truth from this spirit being is that God puts no confidence in angels, and even less in man. True in some situations, but not for all.
    There have been times when angels and men have been entrusted to reveal God’s truths.

    So, while what the spirit being told Eliphaz can be viewed as correct in some cases, it does not tell the whole story of the trustworthiness of all angels and men at all times.

    This spirit being needed Paul Harvey alongside him to tell “the rest of the story”. (You older folks will get that!)


    Eliphaz came as a friend to comfort Job.
    And while this 1st speech is the more gentle of the 3 speeches Eliphaz gives; just exactly what was in this speech, so far, that is supposed to be COMFORTING for Job????


    Eliphaz will continue his answer to Job in chapter 5 (in my next post).
    Grace and peace,

    Nicely done!

    It is so refreshing to see that others recognize Job's righteousness before God and the failure of his friends to see that.

    Job's situation was not caused by a sin that Job did, but rather as Job realizes and states in

    Job 3:25

    " For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me."

    It was his fear that led to this catastrophe in his life.

    God's message to his people is

    Fear not!

    Fear not!

    Fear not!

    Why? Because God knows what He is doing and when we believe,(not fear) we will reap God's blessings!

    The believer's greatest enemy is fear. But perfect love casts out fear.

    I John 4:18;2:5

    Again, Well done,

    oatmeal
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

  7. #65
    Over 500 post club False Prophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    32006
    Sabeans and Chaldeans attacked the land of Uz, which a location cannot be pinpointed. It was probably around Edom. A time frame should be before the time of Moses which he told the story in the past tense; possibly 1400 BC before Ramsses and after Jacob.

  8. #66
    Fiddle Dee Dee Tambora's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    37,945
    Thanks
    102,958
    Thanked 31,506 Times in 20,117 Posts

    Mentioned
    125 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2148022

    Chapter 6 continued

    Job has prayed to God for death.
    God does not answer that prayer.

    There is a song I know that says sometimes the best things will come our way because of UNANSWERED prayer.

    This will be true in the case of Job. For in later chapters we will learn that as Job lost his 10 children, all his substance, and his health; the Lord heals him, gives him 10 more children, and double the substance he had before.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .


    Chapter 6 continued ….
    Job continues to reply to Eliphaz.


    For this post, I’m going to limit it to a single verse because it sets the stage for the rest of the chapter.
    Job 6 KJV
    (14) To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
    Job lays it on the line.
    When a friend is suffering, pity should be shown. And pity should be shown REGARDLESS if that person has the same beliefs as you about God.

    The story of the good Samaritan teaches this (Luke 10:25-37).
    This good man saw another in distress (attacked, stripped, left half dead).
    The good man helped the distressed man WITHOUT asking about what his nationality was, or what his political affiliation was, or what his theological stance was.


    Job's friends were a complete flop concerning pity and comfort to one who is afflicted.



    I’m sure a tiny spark of mental comfort came to Job when he first saw his friends arrive to console him. It’s a shame it turned into a theological debate of …… “if you hadn’t done something wrong, this would not be happening”.

    They were actually adding to his grief by trying to establish blame.




    Let me put this into perspective.

    Let’s say you were playing in the yard with a child. Your phone (that is laying on the picnic table) rings, and you turn to reach for it to see who is calling.
    As you turn back, you witness the child step off the curb into the street, and a car runs the child over, killing him.

    Imagine what your horror and grief would be like at that time.

    A good friend comes over and gently holds your hand while you weep.
    And then the friend opens his mouth to say things like …. “You know, if you hadn’t taken your eyes off your child for two seconds, this wouldn’t have happened”.
    Comfort reverts to accusation.

    Can you see how having something like that said to you would only compound your grief; being stung by accusation rather than being shown comfort?


    From my own experience of losing a loved one, I can say this …….

    It gave me no comfort to have folks quote scripture to me (I already knew them), or even say that he is in a better place now (I already knew that).
    Who comforted me the most was my sister. She didn’t try to tell me to sit and calm down.
    She wrapped her arms around me while I was sobbing uncontrollably, and said, “You go ahead and cry all you want to, honey, I’m here for you and I’ll cry with you”.


    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .





    Go back and take a peek at verse 2 of this chapter.
    Job’s grief is H3708 (that is the noun form of the Hebrew word).
    It is derived from H3707 (the verb form of the same Hebrew word).

    H3708 - the noun form (as in “his grief”, “my grief”, “your grief“)
    כּעשׂ / כּעס
    ka‛as / ka‛aś
    BDB Definition:
    1) anger, vexation, provocation, grief
    1a) vexation
    1a1) of men
    1a2) of God
    1b) vexation, grief, frustration
    Part of Speech: noun masculine
    A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H3707


    H3707 - (the verb form --- what grief actually does, ie. the action of grief)
    כּעס
    ka‛as
    BDB Definition:
    1) to be angry, be vexed, be indignant, be wroth, be grieved, provoke to anger and wrath
    1a) (Qal)
    1a1) to be vexed, be indignant
    1a2) to be angry
    1b) (Piel) to provoke to anger
    1c) (Hiphil)
    1c1) to vex
    1c2) to vex, provoke to anger

    It’s OK to grieve. It’s OK to feel hurt, anger ,and frustration. And it’s OK to speak in a rash manner.
    God understands.
    That’s what grief is.










    I make the alligators look tame.
    A wretched, spiteful, straight-razor totin' woman.
    Lord have mercy.


  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Tambora For Your Post:

    LoneStar (May 6th, 2016)

  10. #67
    Over 500 post club False Prophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    32006
    Lam.4
    [21] Rejoice and be glad, O daughter of Edom,
    dweller in the land of Uz;
    So Edom seems to be the correct location of the land of Uz. Job had many flocks and herds, so he was a pastoralist.
    Job.1[15] and the Sabe'ans fell upon them and took them, and slew the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you."
    The ancient Sabaean Kingdom established power in the early 1st millennium BC. It was conquered, in the 1st century BC, by the Ḥimyarites.
    Job 1[17] While he was yet speaking, there came another, and said, "The Chalde'ans formed three companies, and made a raid upon the camels and took them, and slew the servants with the edge of the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell you."

    The Chaldeans came after the Kassites invaded Babylon in 1800 BC. The Kassites ruled Babylon four hundred years. That is why I chose 1400 BC as a possible earliest date for Job.

  11. #68
    . Eeset's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    7,849
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 904 Times in 569 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1515590
    Please continue Tambora.

  12. #69
    Silver Member glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    12,662
    Thanks
    3,079
    Thanked 16,848 Times in 8,365 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147676
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    The Good & the Bad in Eliphaz's Words:
    (Job Chapter 5):

    The Bad:

    One thing is for sure, Eliphaz was not telling the whole story about God and man. Yes, man lives in a house of clay that turns to dust and man's life can be snuffed out like swatting a moth or pulling down a tent. But man is also made in the image of God and the God who made him is a God of grace and mercy as well as a God of justice.

    Eliphaz's second argument is based upon his own personal observations of life (Job 5:1-7). He has seen sinners prosper and take root, only to be destroyed and lose everything. This was a not-so-subtle description of Job's situation. It must have hurt Job deeply to hear that it was his sin that killed his children.

    In fact, Eliphaz's observations about life was one of the popular theologies of that day; For it was the thought that if a person suffered, it was because they had some type of sin within their lives. A person should not suffer if they are not innocent. That theology was present in Jesus day as it is in our day. The reason it hangs on is because in some cases it is true. Some people do suffer because of what they have done. “You reap what you sow.” – is scriptural. However, there are cases when innocent people suffer also. The crucifixion of Jesus is such a case and the story of Job is too.

    So Eliphaz reasoned, "Trouble doesn't grow out of the ground, like weeds; It's a part of man's birth, because man was born a sinner" (Job 5:6-7). If Job is in trouble concludes Eliphaz, he caused it himself because he sinned against God. Therefore, Job must repent of his sins and ask God's forgiveness.
    Eliphaz's conclusions were wrong. The text doesn't say "man was born a sinner." I think this is a pretty good example of what Tam is teaching in this study of Job.

    Job 5:6-7
    Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground; Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    LoneStar (May 6th, 2016),Tambora (May 5th, 2016)

  14. #70
    Over 500 post club False Prophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    32006
    The wise and the foolish virgins awaited the coming of the bridegroom. They all fell asleep. The wise virgins carried oil in their lamps, while the foolish virgins did not. The foolish virgins asked the wise virgins for some of their oil since their lamps were going out. Matt 25[1]"Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 "Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. 3 "For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. 6 "But at midnight there was a shout, 'Behold, the bridegroom ! Come out to meet him.' 7 "Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 "The foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' WE see the light of the wicked is put out in Job 18. [5] "Yea, the light of the wicked is put out,
    and the flame of his fire does not shine.
    [6] The light is dark in his tent,
    and his lamp above him is put out.
    This is not God speaking to Job. This came out of the mouth of Bildad. This judgment was not intended for Job. This judgment is intended for the foolish virgins who do not carry oil (the Spirit) along with them for their lamps. Bildad spoke these words to Job, but they were not intended for Job from God.
    Job.42[7]
    After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eli'phaz the Te'manite: "My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.


    These men may have sound theology as Tambora suggested, however God did not pronounce judgment upon Job. These words of judgment coming from the mouths of his friends were not intended for Job from God.

  15. #71
    Veteran Jason0047's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    275
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    728
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Eliphaz's conclusions were wrong. The text doesn't say "man was born a sinner." I think this is a pretty good example of what Tam is teaching in this study of Job.

    Job 5:6-7
    Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground; Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
    Dear G:

    I hope you are doing well.
    And that your love in the Lord and His ways is staying strong.

    Anyways, to get down to business...

    First, to clarify my position on what I wrote, my post did in fact disagree with Eliphaz's false theology (See the section in my post called: "The Bad").

    Second, I did not quote the text verbatim for Job 5:6-7; I was paraphrasing what Eliphaz was essentially thinking from this passage. For the verse "...man is born unto trouble" (Job 5:7) is just another way of saying "man was born a sinner." For that is why I used the word "reasoned" and not the word "said" (as if it was a direct quote). For thoughts and words are two different things.

    Now, I know I probably should have clarified the difference in quoting and paraphrasing Job:5:6-7, and I apologize for that, but it is evident that Eliphaz was essentially thinking man was born a sinner by this passage, though.

    Anyways, I hope this clears up the confusion.

    Peace be unto you.

    And may the Lord bless you.

    With loving kindness to you in Christ:

    Sincerely,

    ~Jason.


    ...
    Last edited by Jason0047; January 29th, 2013 at 04:08 AM.

  16. #72
    Journeyman Lovebug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    143
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    That is true.

    The thing is that Job was experiencing in his flesh what God was experiencing from man all along.

    This is why King David lost his son Absolum. He then knew what he had done to the Lord.

    People think God can take it as if he has no feelings.

    Suffering his sufferings, changes people and makes them fit to reign with Him.

    LA
    YES, indeedy!

  17. #73
    Journeyman Lovebug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    143
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    Typical of those who accuse.
    Yep

    There is only one accuser.

  18. #74
    Over 500 post club False Prophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    603
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    32006
    God saw Job as a perfect and upright man, and nobody was like him on the earth. Job's friends condemned him as a sinner worthy of the plagues that had befallen him. God had a hedge of protection around Job.
    1] There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God, and turned away from evil. In light of today's gospel which teaches people not to fear God or turn away from evil; Job would be a model christian in any age.
    [9] Then Satan answered the LORD, "Does Job fear God for nought?
    Satan claimed that Job worshipped God for all his possessions and the blessed life that he had received from the LORD.
    [10] Hast thou not put a hedge about him and his house and all that he has, on every side? Thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
    [11] But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse thee to thy face."
    It is remarkable after all that had befallen Job, and after listening to his friends condemnation of his character; that Job never sinned against God, like his wife surmised, "Where is your God now! Curse God and die!" After losing his possessions along with his sons and daughters, Job remained a pious man.
    [20]
    Then Job arose, and rent his robe, and shaved his head, and fell upon the ground, and worshiped.
    Job continued to worship God continually throughout his affliction. We see the loaves and the fishes crowd follow Jesus, but when he told them to eat his flesh and drink his blood; they all turned away, except for his disciples.

    [22]
    In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrong.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  19. #75
    LIFETIME MEMBER Desert Reign's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,367
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 182 Times in 115 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    451544
    [quote=Tambora;3336702]
    We have the privilege of knowing what went on behind the scene.
    Job and his friends didn't.

    Excellent subject for a thread.

    I wholeheartedly agree with this. Many people get stuck on God vs Satan and so fail to appreciate that the book is really nothing to do with that issue at all.

    We are going to see that Job's friends were wrong, even though their theology could be said to be sound.
    They basically tell Job that he must have done something offensive, otherwise this calamity would not have befallen him.
    You reap what you sow.
    That's scriptural and sound theology, and is the basis of the theology of Job's friends.
    Problem is, even though it was sound theology, it was wrong in the case of Job.
    In the case of the book of Job, I don't think this is correct. Job's three 'friends' were criticised for having bad theology. They were not wrong about Job but about God. Their theology was:

    "God rewards the righteous and punishes the wicked in this life."

    It was a kind of prosperity theology. It was from this theology that they derived their conclusion that Job, irrespective of appearances, must have done something sinful to displease God. They didn't misjudge Job. Job was simply the object lesson of their theology. They weren't judging him at all. They weren't looking at his actual life; they weren't using their eyes but their minds. Had they looked at his life, had they been open to him as a person, they could not possibly have come to that conclusion.

    The problem is that Job had the same theology. But this translated into 'God is unjust' because he knew that he had done nothing wrong and everything right.

    Job needed to repent in the end because he realised that this theology puts man at the centre of the world. It makes God simply a reactionary, there to judge man's deeds. Whenever man did anything, God had to say whether it was good or bad and act accordingly. He became just a slave to man. Elihu, at the end of the book, scotches this view by putting God back in the centre and making the bold statement that God is not really interested in what man thinks of himself. He says that the good we do is for ourselves and the evil we do only affects men, not God. In other words we should judge our own deeds and let God get on with the business of running the world. He also points out that there are many reasons why God might want to cause some suffering apart from just to punish someone and that we need to get a bigger picture of this.

    Sometimes sound theology is not as black and white as one would wish.
    There always seems to be an exception somewhere.
    And this is why we often see one scripture pitted against another, as if one is right and the other wrong.
    When the fact is, both are right, but it depends on the situation at hand.

    Openness is shy of formulating doctrines for this reason. Doctrines are often abstractions. The same goes for ethical rules - there is always a situation that renders the rule obsolete. Salvation is fundamentally a relationship, not a concept or theory.
    Last edited by Desert Reign; January 29th, 2013 at 01:42 PM.
    Total Misanthropy.
    Uncertain salvation.
    Luck of the draw.
    Irresistible damnation.
    Persecution of the saints.

    Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
    (The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

    RevTestament: It doesn't matter to me too much that the "New Testament wasn't written in Hebrew.
    Dialogos: Calvin, as a sinner, probably got some things wrong.
    Brandplucked: I'm shocked that other people disagree with me.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us