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Thread: Bible Study - the Book of Job

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    I will add this then quit this subject in favor of the thread

    This the Young's Literal Translation. I like it for accuracy. I might be a different meaning, maybe not.

    Job 1:6 And the day is, that sons of God come in to station themselves by Jehovah, and there doth come also the Adversary in their midst.
    Job 1:7 And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Whence comest thou?' And the Adversary answereth Jehovah and saith, `From going to and fro in the land, and from walking up and down on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomlapalm View Post
    This the Young's Literal Translation. I like it for accuracy. I might be a different meaning, maybe not.

    Job 1:6 And the day is, that sons of God come in to station themselves by Jehovah, and there doth come also the Adversary in their midst.
    Job 1:7 And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Whence comest thou?' And the Adversary answereth Jehovah and saith, `From going to and fro in the land, and from walking up and down on it.
    Yes, at times a different translation helps with what is being said.

    It does denote that Satan came from the earth/land (where he was going to and fro).
    It answers the question of God, "Whence comest thou?", indicating that he is now in a different place than previously (previously on earth/land where he was going to and fro).

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomlapalm View Post
    "sons of god" in Job is referring to the angels or angels fallen with Satan
    Yes, I agree. The "sons of God" are angels. Whether they be fallen angels or good angels is not entirely made clear by the text.

    However, your theological viewpoint on whether or not Satan is able to approach God to accuse the saints in Heaven or not will of course effect your interpretation on the affiliation of these angels in the opening chapters of Job 1-2.

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    I agree.

    let's defer to Tambora for more on Job

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    At what time in history did Job live?

    Since the bible does not specifically tell us, only clues can be compiled to speculate as to the timeline.
    And there is much to speculate on.

    My own personal preference is that Job lived sometime just prior to, or during, the time of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

    There is no tabernacle/temple mentioned, but there are altars built.
    Until the tabernacle was built (in the time of Moses), altars for sacrifice were built wherever you happen to be.

    Another clue is the age Job lived to be.
    Even though we are not given the exact amount of years Job lived, we know that he was already old enough to have grown children before the events took place. And we are told that after all the events of the book of Job take place, Job continues to live an additional 140 years.
    Job 42 KJV
    (16) After this lived Job an hundred and forty years, and saw his sons, and his sons' sons, even four generations.
    The age of Job gives an indication of a time in which men still lived to be rather old in age that is comparable to the ages during the time of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

    • Abraham lived to be 175 years old.



    • Isaac lived to be 180 years old.



    • Jacob lived to be 147 years old.



    IF Job was contemporary to the time of Abraham (or prior), then he most probably was alive before Noah died.
    Abraham lived for 175 years and was 58 years old when Noah died.
    What about the possibility that Job never existed at all? The Book of Job was almost certainly written during or after after the Babylonian captivity. There is a Babylonian "Job" story that has striking similarities to the Hebrew version, but seems to be older. I think Job makes much more sense when viewed as a story designed to make a point rather than a historical account.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COLA76 View Post
    What about the possibility that Job never existed at all?
    There are some that view the story of Job as simply a parable story, and that he was not historical figure.

    However, I certainly lean toward the view that he was a historical figure.

    Ezekiel 14 KJV
    (14) Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
    (15) If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:
    (16) Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.
    (17) Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:
    (18) Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.
    (19) Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:
    (20) Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.
    I find it hard to accept that if Job was just a make-believe person, that he would be listed with the other two that were certainly historical figures.



    The Book of Job was almost certainly written during or after after the Babylonian captivity. There is a Babylonian "Job" story that has striking similarities to the Hebrew version, but seems to be older. I think Job makes much more sense when viewed as a story designed to make a point rather than a historical account.
    You are welcome to post a link to this Babylonian Job story that you mention.
    That way folks can read it at their leisure if interested.

    But since this is a "bible" study, this thread will stick to the biblical story.

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomlapalm View Post
    I agree.

    let's defer to Tambora for more on Job
    I plan on posting chapter 3 and 4 tonight.

    Thanks for your patience.
    I just don't want to go too quickly, but have time to reflect on each chapter before presenting more.

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    I plan on posting chapter 3 and 4 tonight.

    Thanks for your patience.
    I just don't want to go too quickly, but have time to reflect on each chapter before presenting more.
    Dear T:

    You might like this audio reading of the entire book of Job.
    I found it to be quite entertaining.

    Job Audio Reading - Word of Promise

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Yes, I agree. The "sons of God" are angels. Whether they be fallen angels or good angels is not entirely made clear by the text.

    However, your theological viewpoint on whether or not Satan is able to approach God to accuse the saints in Heaven or not will of course effect your interpretation on the affiliation of these angels in the opening chapters of Job 1-2.
    I believe that 'the Sons of GOD' in Job 1 are men which are obedient to GOD and this event takes place on the earth, when these faithful men came to offer before GOD. Nowhere does it say this event takes place in heaven, nor does it say that these were angelic beings.
    I also believe that the term 'Sons of GOD' is an honorable term in scripture, never to be used to describe fallen angels who are opposed to the will of GOD.
    Last edited by steko; January 25th, 2013 at 11:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    There are some that view the story of Job as simply a parable story, and that he was not historical figure.

    However, I certainly lean toward the view that he was a historical figure.

    Ezekiel 14 KJV
    (14) Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
    (15) If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:
    (16) Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.
    (17) Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:
    (18) Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.
    (19) Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:
    (20) Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.
    I find it hard to accept that if Job was just a make-believe person, that he would be listed with the other two that were certainly historical figures.

    You are welcome to post a link to this Babylonian Job story that you mention.
    That way folks can read it at their leisure if interested.

    But since this is a "bible" study, this thread will stick to the biblical story.
    Dear T:

    Great passage that supports the truth of God's Word! Thank you.

    Although the Bible does tell us that it uses similitudes (i.e. figures of speech) (Hosea 12:10 KJV), every story and person mentioned in the Bible is literally true and 100% accurate. Every letter, word, and number is carefully placed in the Bible by deliberate design from God. For the Scriptures predict the future in advance and it is a living and breathing book that can change the hearts of men.

    Not to get ahead of our study, but the truth of the existence of a real fire breathing dragon (i.e. the Leviathan) as mentioned in Job 41, it is more real than people would like to think.

    The dracorex fossil discovery was discovered in 2004 and looks very similar to the dragons of myth and legend. And the existence of the bombardier beetle shows us that it is possible for a creature to release super heated chemicals from it's body.

    I will try and provide some good videos on the existence of dragons when you get to Job chapter 41.
    Last edited by Jason0047; January 25th, 2013 at 11:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    I believe that 'the Sons of GOD' in Job 1 are men which are obedient to GOD and this event takes place on the earth, when these faithful men came to offer before GOD. Nowhere does it say this event takes place in heaven, nor does it say that these were angelic beings.
    I also believe that the term 'Sons of GOD' is an honorable term in scripture, never to be used to describe fallen angels who are opposed to the will of GOD.
    That's a view that many lean toward.

    I happen to lean the other way.


    I do have a question .....
    when these faithful men came to offer before GOD
    Where do you suppose that might be?
    Perhaps a community get together of worship, like maybe in the town square?

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    I believe that 'the Sons of GOD' in Job 1 are men which are obedient to GOD and this event takes place on the earth, when these faithful men came to offer before GOD. Nowhere does it say this event takes place in heaven, nor does it say that these were angelic beings.
    I also believe that the term 'Sons of GOD' is an honorable term in scripture, never to be used to describe fallen angels who are opposed to the will of GOD.
    Dear S:

    Now, I do not want to presume the reasons behind what you believe, but I think most Christians who have a hard time in making the connection that the "sons of God" are angels is for primarily one reason. It would mean that they would have to believe in the existence of Nephilim, which are the offspring of fallen angels and human women. For it is a disturbing notion to think that such things would exist. Yet they existed before and after the flood. And legends in many cultures have included giant men who had more than five fingers on their hands.

    Joshua and his men had ran into these beings when he was spying out the promised land, and David had fought one with a sling shot.

    In addition, it is also a lot more comfortable to think that satan does not accuse the saints up in Heaven at this very moment to God, too. For it raises unexplained questions, such as, "How could a Holy God allow evil in Heaven?"

    Well, here is a descent article that addresses this issue....

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-access.html

    Anyways, I hope this helps.

    And may God bless you, my friend.

    With loving kindness to you in Christ:

    Sincerely,

    ~Jason.


    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Dear S:

    Now, I do not want to presume the reasons behind what you believe, but I think most Christians who have a hard time in making the connection that the "sons of God" are angels is for primarily one reason. It would mean that they would have to believe in the existence of Nephilim, which are the offspring of fallen angels and human women. For it is a disturbing notion to think that such things would exist. Yet they existed before and after the flood. And legends in many cultures have included giant men who had more than five fingers on their hands.
    Oh, but I do believe in the existence of the Nephilim, for their existence is often mentioned in Scripture, but it is an imposition on scripture that these were the offspring of fallen angels and human women, though this is a very popular opinion, the text(Gen 6) does not say this.


    Joshua and his men had ran into these beings when he was spying out the promised land, and David had fought one with a sling shot
    .

    Yep!



    In addition, it is also a lot more comfortable to think that satan does not accuse the saints up in Heaven at this very moment to God, too. For it raises unexplained questions, such as, "How could a Holy God allow evil in Heaven?"
    Rev_12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,





    Well, here is a descent article that addresses this issue....

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-access.html

    Anyways, I hope this helps.
    There's lots of opinions on this subject. I've studied it for years and am very familiar with the various positions.

    And may God bless you, my friend.

    With loving kindness to you in Christ:

    Sincerely,

    ~Jason.
    You, too!
    Steko

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    That's a view that many lean toward.

    I happen to lean the other way.
    Yes...I know. We've discussed this before.


    I do have a question .....
    Where do you suppose that might be?
    Perhaps a community get together of worship, like maybe in the town square?
    Though the events in Job are post-flood, I think that a practice was established post-Eden to build altars and call upon the name of YHVH.
    Though, while Eden still existed, men came to the entrance where the Cherabim were and offered sacrifice in order to commune with YHVH(the reason for the Cherabim on Mercy seat later on).
    I do agree with you that the events in Job's life occured around the time of Abraham. I applaud your research into the lineage of the various peoples mentioned in Job. I've done similar studies but not quite to some of the detail that you have. By the way, in Job, the same monetary exchange is used as in the time of Abraham/Abram.
    Anyway, when the Sons of God came to present themselves before YHVH, in Job, it does not state where this takes place. It is assumed that this event takes place in heaven and that these are angelic beings.
    I am open to consider that this just might not be the case.
    I still believe that the term 'Sons of GOD' is an honorable term in Scripture not to be used of those who's will is in opposition to GOD's will. Rom 8:14

    "town square''

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  22. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    I believe that 'the Sons of GOD' in Job 1 are men which are obedient to GOD and this event takes place on the earth, when these faithful men came to offer before GOD. Nowhere does it say this event takes place in heaven, nor does it say that these were angelic beings.
    I also believe that the term 'Sons of GOD' is an honorable term in scripture, never to be used to describe fallen angels who are opposed to the will of GOD.
    Yes, except that these sons of God have apostacied at the time.

    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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