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Thread: Is MAD doctrine correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    So far I have no reason to believe they were not included, but I do not believe it was Gentiles exclusively. I believe "all nations" means all nations.

    Can you give me a reason to think otherwise?

    Hi , and Matt 28:20 , proves that Baptiam will again be preached and verse 20 says that they will be taught all that the Jesus commanded them .

    Your problem is , when does that Happen ??

    #1 , During the Great Tribulation ??

    #2 , Or , during the Millennium ??

    #3 , The Jews have to be reached and we are not reaching them at all !!

    I opt for the Great Tribulation , when the 144,000 preach and reach their Jewish brethren with Mark 16:15-18 !!

    The Millennium is where Gentiles will be Grafted into the Olive Tree , in Rom 11 !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi , and Matt 28:20 , proves that Baptiam will again be preached and verse 20 says that they will be taught all that the Jesus commanded them .

    Your problem is , when does that Happen ??

    #1 , During the Great Tribulation ??

    #2 , Or , during the Millennium ??

    #3 , The Jews have to be reached and we are not reaching them at all !!

    I opt for the Great Tribulation , when the 144,000 preach and reach their Jewish brethren with Mark 16:15-18 !!

    The Millennium is where Gentiles will be Grafted into the Olive Tree , in Rom 11 !!

    dan p
    It was supposed to happen when they moved beyond the Jews, but that plan was put on hold for the Body, because Israel did not bear the fruit God wanted within the time frame.

    That plan will resume when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in; which leads into the Tribulation, followed by the Great Tribulation [the last 3 1/2 years].


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I know what you dispute, and I know you can't back it up; you refuse to answer why the 12 were sent to baptize and Paul was not, for instance. Or why the 12 were commanded to teach all things Jesus had commanded them and Paul was not.
    Because there is more than one piece of good news (gospel) in the New Testament.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I know what you dispute, and I know you can't back it up; you refuse to answer why the 12 were sent to baptize and Paul was not, for instance. Or why the 12 were commanded to teach all things Jesus had commanded them and Paul was not.

    It's not about whether or not baptism is okay, but the fact that the 12 were commanded to do so and Paul was not.
    Acts 10:48 shows that Peter did not do the baptizing himself; he instructed the brethren from Joppa (Acts 10:23) to do it.

    In the early Church, new conversions were happening by the scores. The apostles would not have had time to baptize all these people themselves, so they appointed deacons to baptize for them. That is why Paul says he was not sent to baptize (1 Cor 1:17). But this does not mean that water baptism had no part in Paul's gospel. On the contrary, Paul was water baptized himself (Acts 9:18, Acts 22:16), and Paul clearly taught water baptism:

    Acts 16:14-15
    And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

    Acts 16:28-33
    28 Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.” 29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.

    Acts 18:5, 8
    Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ...And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

    Acts 19:4-5
    Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Paul did not always perform water baptisms personally, but he clearly taught the practice of water baptism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulos View Post
    Acts 10:48 shows that Peter did not do the baptizing himself; he instructed the brethren from Joppa (Acts 10:23) to do it.

    In the early Church, new conversions were happening by the scores. The apostles would not have had time to baptize all these people themselves, so they appointed deacons to baptize for them. That is why Paul says he was not sent to baptize (1 Cor 1:17). But this does not mean that water baptism had no part in Paul's gospel. On the contrary, Paul was water baptized himself (Acts 9:18, Acts 22:16), and Paul clearly taught water baptism:

    Acts 16:14-15
    And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

    Acts 16:28-33
    28 Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.” 29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.

    Acts 18:5, 8
    Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ...And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

    Acts 19:4-5
    Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Paul did not always perform water baptisms personally, but he clearly taught the practice of water baptism.

    Hi , and I have to disagree with you that Paul BAPTIZED >

    As soon as I catch up I will do AN OP AS TO WHY NOT !!

    Where is a verse where Paul TAUGHT the practice of Baptism ??

    DAN P

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi , and I have to disagree with you that Paul BAPTIZED
    Paul was baptized by Ananias (Acts 9:18, Acts 22:16), and Paul clearly stated that he baptized others (1 Corinthians 1:14-16), so yes, Paul did BAPTIZE, although he did not baptize many because preaching was his primary calling (1 Cor 1:17).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulos View Post
    Acts 10:48 shows that Peter did not do the baptizing himself; he instructed the brethren from Joppa (Acts 10:23) to do it.
    So?

    Do you take this to mean Peter never baptized anyone?

    In the early Church, new conversions were happening by the scores. The apostles would not have had time to baptize all these people themselves, so they appointed deacons to baptize for them. That is why Paul says he was not sent to baptize (1 Cor 1:17). But this does not mean that water baptism had no part in Paul's gospel. On the contrary, Paul was water baptized himself (Acts 9:18, Acts 22:16), and Paul clearly taught water baptism:
    Acts 16:14-15
    And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

    Acts 16:28-33
    28 Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.” 29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.

    Acts 18:5, 8
    Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ...And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

    Acts 19:4-5
    Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    Paul did not always perform water baptisms personally, but he clearly taught the practice of water baptism.


    The 12 apostles were specifically told to baptize, by Jesus. Paul, who was an apostle, was not sent to baptize, even though he was called by Jesus. That's the point. Paul was also not commanded to teach all the things Jesus had taught the 12.

    Just because baptism happened doesn't change these facts, and there's also the fact that Paul wrote that there was only one baptism; and most of the time when he wrote of baptism it wasn't by water.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Do you take this to mean Peter never baptized anyone?
    I'm sure that Peter performed some baptisms just as Paul performed some baptisms (1 Corinthians 1:16).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    Just because baptism happened doesn't change these facts, and there's also the fact that Paul wrote that there was only one baptism; and most of the time when he wrote of baptism it wasn't by water.
    Why did Paul perform water baptisms if he did not teach water baptism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulos View Post
    I'm sure that Peter performed some baptisms just as Paul performed some baptisms (1 Corinthians 1:16).
    Okay.

    But you do realize that this is irrelevant to the point, don't you?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulos View Post
    Why did Paul perform water baptisms if he did not teach water baptism?
    He didn't teach it as being a necessity as Peter did. Acts 2:38

    When Paul spoke of baptism he spoke of being baptized into Christ's death, burial and resurrection. And "baptism" does not necessitate water.

    Also, John the Baptist said something very specific regarding baptism that delineated his baptizing with water with what Jesus would do. Do you know what that is?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    When Paul spoke of baptism he spoke of being baptized into Christ's death, burial and resurrection. And "baptism" does not necessitate water.
    Why did Paul ever bother water baptizing anyone then?
    Last edited by Paulos; January 10th, 2013 at 06:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    You are begging the question and missing the point (be aware that Mark 16 is a problematic ending that likely does not belong).
    So you don't think that Mark 16 belongs in the Bible? Does John 3 belong in the Bible? What about 1 John 5?

    Just a few posts before you said...

    The translators were right to go with nations, not Jews, etc. based on context, etc. Change your view to match the Bible, not the other way around.
    Why would anyone want to change their view to match the Bible if it is not to be trusted? If people can add or subtract from the scriptures, thus nullifying 2 Timothy 3:16 then what's the point? It's just another book like any other...filled with men's ideas.

    I sure hope you're wrong. Because if you are not, and Mark 16 isn't supposed to be there.....then you may as well just toss the whole lot.

    I don't see how anyone could think otherwise. What are you doing....just picking and choosing whatever you feel like believing?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulos View Post
    Why did Paul ever bother water baptizing anyone then?

    Hi , and Rom 1:1 explains why Paul was SEPARATED to teach , preach , only the Gospel of God !!

    SEPARATED /APHORIZO is in the Greek Perfect Tense and that means that when Saul was saved , in Acts 9:6 and from that point in time ( Acts 9:6 ) Sauls message was a CONTINUING preaching of Grace , for that is why it is in the Perfect Tense , Passive Voice an a Participle .

    It should be translated " HAVING BEEN SEPARATED " and having in not just part of the Time , BUT all the time SEPARATED to only preach Grace , and NOT , the Law , Baptism or Repentance nor ever be a Pharisee ever again !!

    The Passive Voice means that God did the SEPARATING and not us , not can the Passive Voice be defeated by anyones personal theology !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi , and Rom 1:1 explains why Paul was SEPARATED to teach , preach , only the Gospel of God !!

    SEPARATED /APHORIZO is in the Greek Perfect Tense and that means that when Saul was saved , in Acts 9:6 and from that point in time ( Acts 9:6 ) Sauls message was a CONTINUING preaching of Grace , for that is why it is in the Perfect Tense , Passive Voice an a Participle .

    It should be translated " HAVING BEEN SEPARATED " and having in not just part of the Time , BUT all the time SEPARATED to only preach Grace , and NOT , the Law , Baptism or Repentance nor ever be a Pharisee ever again !!

    The Passive Voice means that God did the SEPARATING and not us , not can the Passive Voice be defeated by anyones personal theology !!

    dan p
    I don't KNOW what any of that means !!

    Why do you use TWO EXCLAMATION POINTS at the end of every paragraph ??

    Why do you SKIP a space , before putting in a comma ??

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