BRXII Battle talk

Dave Miller said:

Of course, that's why it says hades. Its obvious. Nothing to do with the Greek
Hades. Except its written in Greek. And called Hades.



You definitely know what you know...

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So what's Hades then?

And what about 1 John 5:7 do you deny in regards to the concept of the Trinity?

Lighthouse said:

So what's Hades then?

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OK, I'll do it one more time for you, but you really need to learn to sue Wikipedia
for yourself:

Hades in Christianity

Main article: Hades in Christianity

Like other 1st-century Jews literate in Greek, early Christians used the Greek word "hades" as the translation for the Hebrew word "sheol." This use appears in Luke's story of Lazarus and the rich man. Both underworlds had originally been dark and gloomy with no relation to afterlife rewards or punishments. Since the writing of the Hebrew Bible, however, the popular concept of sheol had come to include particular judgment. Thus hades was seen as a place of comfort for the righteous (in the bosom of Abraham) and torment for the wicked. Here the dead awaited the universal resurrection on Judgment Day. Early church fathers defended this view of the afterlife against the view that the soul went immediately to heaven or to hell after the death of the body[3].

The doctrine of hades exists in substantially its original Christian form in the Eastern Orthodox Church. It also exists in its Old Testament form, as the abode of the unconscious dead, in certain other denominations, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses. In mainstream Western Christianity, however, it has largely been replaced by the concept of the soul going straight to hell, heaven, or (in Roman Catholicism) purgatory.

And what about 1 John 5:7 do you deny in regards to the concept of the Trinity?

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I'm a big fan of the Trinity! The statement was that the word Trinity never
appears in scripture, just like the word purgatory never appears.

Look up some of those references and you'll see how others support the
ideal of purgatory with those scriptures, just like you support Trinity with
your quoted scripture.

here's a clue, purgatory is associated with the word "purge," which means to
cleanse or purify. There's alot of references to purification in scripture, like wheat
from chaff on the threshing floor, like silver purified or refined seven times...

Dave Miller said:

OK, I'll do it one more time for you, but you really need to learn to sue Wikipedia
for yourself:

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Why do I need to sue Wikipedia?

Hades in Christianity

Main article: Hades in Christianity

Like other 1st-century Jews literate in Greek, early Christians used the Greek word "hades" as the translation for the Hebrew word "sheol." This use appears in Luke's story of Lazarus and the rich man. Both underworlds had originally been dark and gloomy with no relation to afterlife rewards or punishments. Since the writing of the Hebrew Bible, however, the popular concept of sheol had come to include particular judgment. Thus hades was seen as a place of comfort for the righteous (in the bosom of Abraham) and torment for the wicked. Here the dead awaited the universal resurrection on Judgment Day. Early church fathers defended this view of the afterlife against the view that the soul went immediately to heaven or to hell after the death of the body[3].

The doctrine of hades exists in substantially its original Christian form in the Eastern Orthodox Church. It also exists in its Old Testament form, as the abode of the unconscious dead, in certain other denominations, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses. In mainstream Western Christianity, however, it has largely been replaced by the concept of the soul going straight to hell, heaven, or (in Roman Catholicism) purgatory.

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The Hebrew word "sheol" refers to the grave.

I'm a big fan of the Trinity!

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No you're not.

The statement was that the word Trinity never
appears in scripture, just like the word purgatory never appears.

Look up some of those references and you'll see how others support the
ideal of purgatory with those scriptures, just like you support Trinity with
your quoted scripture.

here's a clue, purgatory is associated with the word "purge," which means to
cleanse or purify. There's alot of references to purification in scripture, like wheat
from chaff on the threshing floor, like silver purified or refined seven times...

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You also said the concept wasn't there. I proved you wrong.

Lighthouse said:

Why do I need to sue Wikipedia?

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You don't. Just go with what you know.

The Hebrew word "sheol" refers to the grave.

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The definitions right in front of you, but again, go with what you know.

No you're not.

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Yes, I am!

You also said the concept wasn't there. I proved you wrong.

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"The word Purgatory, just as the word Trinity, does not appear in the Bible,"

But then again, just go with what you know. Its serving you well.

Dave Miller said:

You don't. Just go with what you know.



The definitions right in front of you, but again, go with what you know.


Yes, I am!



"The word Purgatory, just as the word Trinity, does not appear in the Bible,"

But then again, just go with what you know. Its serving you well.

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You're a joke. I know you meant "use" instead of "sue," but I made a joke. And you're evidently too stupid to catch it. And you wouldn't know the Trinity if they struck you dead like Ananias and Saphira.

P.S.

...the word Trinity, does not appear in the Bible, nor is the concept spelled out in detail.

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Dave Miller said:

But then again, just go with what you know. Its serving you well.

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Except for the following Sozo's example part.

Dave Miller said:

"The word Purgatory, just as the word Trinity, does not appear in the Bible,"

But then again, just go with what you know. Its serving you well.

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Neither does the word, "trinity," but the definition is sound doctrine, as is hell being described as purgatory, since we know all its inhabitants will be cast into the Lake of Fire, where they'll be tormented forever and ever. :duh:

For the record, I never said Universalism wasn't around in the early days of the church. It was there just as Gnosticism, and many other false teachings. Sure you can find quotes that show it was there. But the bottom line is what does the Bible say? I simply showed the quotes of some of the early Christians (such as Polycarp-and again how could John's disciple have gotten John's teaching wrong?) to refute the idea that Universalism attempts to foist on people that the early Christians did not believe in eternal punishment. Your whole argument about the way the modern Bibles are translated is that they are not based on what the Apostles ACTUALLY taught. And YET when you read statements such as Polycarp's you find them to be in line with what the modern Bible translations say.

Universalism is false teaching and always has been, and always will be. And when the end comes, all who doubted God's Word will see that it was exactly right about the judgment. I for one am not going to stop warning people to stay away from eternity apart from God in the Lake of Fire. You can accuse me of being close-minded all you like, but I have searched the Scriptures, I have read and heard your arguments and I have given them consideration. They do not match what the Bible says and I will never accept Universalism.

It is obvious that we are not going to convince each other at this juncture, but I still pray that someday you will come back and reconsider the things I have said to you Stephen.

God bless!

Lighthouse said:

You're a joke. I know you meant "use" instead of "sue," but I made a joke. And you're evidently too stupid to catch it. And you wouldn't know the Trinity if they struck you dead like Ananias and Saphira.

P.S.

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I can tell by his quotes in your replies that Dave Miller is still going on and on without really ever providing anything of substance. Take my advice and throw Dave Miller on ignore. It is such a blessing not to have to read his garbage! And the arguments are pointless. He won't actually respond to questions with substantial answers and he throws entire threads off track with his mumbo-jumbo. I have simply consigned Dave Miller to prayer and I pray God will open up his eyes.

Lighthouse said:

You're a joke. I know you meant "use" instead of "sue," but I made a joke.

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You're right, I was a little quick on the switch. Apologies.

And you wouldn't know the Trinity if they struck you dead like Ananias and Saphira.

P.S.

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If you say so.

And regarding the quote, it was actually referring to the purgatory concept not
being spelled out, it wasn't specifically talking about the Trinity with regard to
concept.

But that's OK, whatever.

PastorKevin said:

I can tell by his quotes in your replies that Dave Miller is still going on and on without really ever providing anything of substance. Take my advice and throw Dave Miller on ignore. It is such a blessing not to have to read his garbage! And the arguments are pointless. He won't actually respond to questions with substantial answers and he throws entire threads off track with his mumbo-jumbo. I have simply consigned Dave Miller to prayer and I pray God will open up his eyes.

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Someone quote me and ask him what questions I haven't responded to with
substantial answers. I've quoted alot of scripture, but the WHOLE BIBLE is
not good enough, only the "PK approved" verses are good enough.

I argue for consistancy between seemingly conflicting verses. Like "God is Love,"
and "reconciling all things," considered against "lake of fire," and "eternal."

This against just restating the verses that PK thinks apply, and ignoring the rest.

I could use a bold large font and say over and over "This is God's Word, This is
God's Word," but that's not a reasoned discussion, that's dogmatic repitition.

PastorKevin with his hands over his ears said:

"Hmhmhmm... I can't hear you Dave.... lalala, mimimi, nanana... I can't heeeeear you!"

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:rotfl:

Dave Miller said:

Someone quote me and ask him what questions I haven't responded to with
substantial answers. I've quoted alot of scripture, but the WHOLE BIBLE is
not good enough, only the "PK approved" verses are good enough.

I argue for consistancy between seemingly conflicting verses. Like "God is Love,"
and "reconciling all things," considered against "lake of fire," and "eternal."

This against just restating the verses that PK thinks apply, and ignoring the rest.

I could use a bold large font and say over and over "This is God's Word, This is
God's Word," but that's not a reasoned discussion, that's dogmatic repitition.

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allow me......

I don't respond to Dave because he has proven himself to be a liar. If you want to be in league with liars go for it.

For instance the quote that Red so happily copied for Dave is filled with a couple of lies. First of all I have always insisted that the WHOLE Bible be taken and not just isolated verses pulled out of context. Have I not?
I have never once said that there were only "PK approved" verses, but rather I believe that ALL of Scripture is God-breathed.

Dave Miller is a liar and a false teacher, and THAT is why I have him on ignore.

PastorKevin said:

I can tell by his quotes in your replies that Dave Miller is still going on and on without really ever providing anything of substance. Take my advice and throw Dave Miller on ignore. It is such a blessing not to have to read his garbage! And the arguments are pointless. He won't actually respond to questions with substantial answers and he throws entire threads off track with his mumbo-jumbo. I have simply consigned Dave Miller to prayer and I pray God will open up his eyes.

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I put him on ignore a long time ago. I only respond to him every great once in a while.

Dave Miller said:

I argue for consistancy between seemingly conflicting verses. Like "God is Love," and "reconciling all things," considered against "lake of fire," and "eternal."

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But dave, you don't even have a graps what they mean without a bit of mysticism. It's not like you aren't renown for tossing out what God says and substituting your own ideas. IE sexual immorality can be made holy when a made up rule is applied, unborn people aren't covered by "Thou shalt not murder", the fruits of the Spirit are anything BUT the natural out pouring of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life... the list goes on and on...

Sort of makes me wonder why logos isn't a bit troubled by those he finds backing him up on this issue.

PastorKevin said:

Take my advice and throw Dave Miller on ignore. It is such a blessing not to have to read his garbage!

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I'll say it's a blessing! When one neg-reps him and calls him a 'loser' he replies with green-rep. HEY! Mr. 5020! Yous hear this's?!?

Dave Miller, ya loser!

"You must spread some reputation around before giving any more to stipe"

PastorKevin said:

I don't respond to Dave because he has proven himself to be a liar. If you want to be in league with liars go for it.

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PK's very next post...

PastorKevin said:

For instance the quote that Red so happily copied for Dave is filled with a couple of lies. First of all...

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Should I beware of being in league with you, PK? :think:

Redfin said:

PK's very next post...



Should I beware of being in league with you, PK? :think:

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Looks to me like He was speaking to you, Red, not Dave. I guess when you redefine words often enough, eventually they begin to lose all meaning, eh? :chuckle: