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Using the Lord's name in vain is not just cursing it, but saying God agrees with you when He does not. Jesus tells me otherwise. You are the liar, not Him and His Word (Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16; Rom. 10:9-10).
Was the Psalmist wrong (119)? Was Jesus wrong to summarize the law as love? Was Paul wrong to say the law is good and holy (Rom. 7:12-14; the law is not the problem; the sinfulness of man and weakness of the flesh is the problem).
If I were to steal a candy bar tomorrow, what would be my non-physical punishment?
Tooth decay and fat belly or fine for shop lifting would be a physical punishment.
Loss of salvation would NOT be the spiritual punishment.
The point is that it is still wrong to steal even though not stealing will not lead to eternal life or stealing will not lead to damnation.
Only godless, persistent unbelief against great life is a salvific issue since it is the antithesis of saving faith (I am not OSAS, but I am secure as a believer).
SaulToPaul 2
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Unbelief of what?
I want to know if the Spirit unbaptizes this person out of the Body of Christ when they cross the threshold of "persistent unbelief of great life"? Scripture, please.
I Jn. 5:11-13
Unbelief vs belief in Christ and His finished work. You understand what an unbeliever is, but you refuse to accept the possibility of apostasy or falling away. Unbelievers cannot apostasize since they never had the truth. Faith vs unbelief are conditions relating to salvation. One cannot be an unbelieving believer and have eternal life. One cannot be a Christian Atheist since this is a logical contradiction.
Heb. 6:4-6
If you get divorced and remarried, are you still married to the first wife?
If you have a fight with your wife and make up, are you divorced?
Salvation is relational, not metaphysical. The stern warnings in Scripture show that eternal life or faith is not irrevocable or irreversible. It is conditioned and remaining in the Son, not renouncing Him.
Lastoneislefty
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Servant101, Hell is a real place. Revelation 20:14-15. Pentecostal church is where you need to go (Acts 2:38). Church of Christ pleases the Lord.
SaulToPaul 2
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I want to know if the Spirit unbaptizes this person out of the Body of Christ when they cross the threshold of "persistent unbelief of great life"? Scripture, please.
Salvation is spiritual.
Without a vital connection to the Head, one is not part of the Body. One can be placed among the people of God (Israel or Church), and one can be removed from the people of God. One can be connected to God through faith or separated from God through unbelief. Baptism refers to a specific thing, not an irrevocable issue or impossibility of rejecting truth. Unbaptize is barking up the wrong tree (only one concept related to salvation, so must be understand in light of other concepts).
SaulToPaul 2
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If it requires the power of the Spirit to baptize or place someone into the
Body of Christ, it would require something equally as powerful to remove that person from the Body.
Writing it off as a metaphor doesn't work. It's about a spiritual realm and reality.
So, God can spew/spit us out of His mouth for being lukewarm and eventually godless. He has the power. His faithfulness does not preclude the possibility of us becoming faithless (unless you are a determinist) leading to forfeiture of the promises and privileges that only apply to believers. Unbelievers have consequences, whether they once believed or not.
Remember, salvation and perseverance have conditions or universalism would be true. Also consider that physical birth is analagous to, not identical with, spiritual rebirth. Illustrations about salvation cannot be pressed on all literal details or we end up with contradiction and nonsense.
Mystery
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What a bunch of made-up garbage. You have absolutely ZERO biblical support for any of that nonsense. Just like the Devil you will arrogantly hold on to your pride-filled heart, instead of admitting that you are wrong.You are a pathetic, godless, fraud.
SaulToPaul 2
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Either Paul or John the Revelator is lying to you, or there are some dispensations
in your Bible that you refuse to acknowledge!
You are a pathetic, godless, fraud.
There are big books full of biblical support for non-Calvinistic views on the perseverance of the saints.
If you would read Shank, you would see the Pauline basis (that does not contradict John or Peter) for conditional eternal security. Take off your MAD glasses and accept the passages at face value rather than rationalizing them away dispensationally.
Mystery
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There is NO biblical support for your post, which is what YOU said, not some inept false teaching "theologian" that YOU worship.
YOU, William, are WRONG, and you have NO biblical support for YOUR post, you pathetic fraud.
SaulToPaul 2
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ShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShankShank.
:nono:
Mystery
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If you would read the bible, instead of Shank, you would see that Paul and Jesus call false teachers like you children of the devil.
Shank makes it easier to identify the verses in question claimed by both views. Since you are so superspiritual, here is my real answer: read Genesis to Revelation, including Paul. It supports conditional vs unconditional eternal security.
The grace of God and His power and perfect provision can be rejected before salvation since all are not saved. Likewise, the keeping power and grace and love of God can be rejected after salvation (unless you are a robot or sock puppet...I knew there was something different about you...what was your production number and country of manufacture? Are your kids also mechanical clones?).
As I said to mystery, he systematizes the verses claimed by both groups.
My real answer is Bible, Bible, Bible, etc. which supports my view, including Paul's teachings. I just thought it would take less time to read the relevant verses about Trinity, Deity, Heaven, perseverance of the saints, etc. than to always read Genesis to Revelation everytime you want to review one doctrine.
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