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Thread: Obamacare

  1. #16
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    Over 5000 post club The Barbarian's Avatar
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    From the Wall Street Journal:
    Palin’s “Death Panels” Charge Named “Lie of the Year”
    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/1...e-of-the-year/

    "Death panel" architect a pro-life Republican from Georgia?
    But there is nothing resembling the alleged "death panel" in the health care reform plan. A spokesperson for Palin told ABC News that the former governor was referring to a section promoting advance care planning that appears on page 425 of the House Democrats' bill [pdf]. Advance care planning includes living wills and durable powers of attorney that allow individuals to make clear their wishes for end-of-life care, whatever they may be.

    And as it turns out, the cause of advance planning has been championed especially strongly by a pro-life Republican -- U.S. Sen. Johnny Isakson of Georgia.

    Isakson (photo above) is a member of Senate Health committee that played a key role in shaping the health care reform legislation. He successfully offered an amendment in committee that allows funds for a government-funded program that provides in-home services to people with disabilities to be used for advance care planning, according to the national Hospice and Palliative Care Organization.

    http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/...m-georgia.html

    Triple irony. There are no "death panels", a pro-life republican inserted the provision Palin called a "death panel", and of course we now know, that Palin was operating a real death panel in Alaska, which resulted in deaths of real people, due to planned delays in service to the elderly.

    Palin's Real Death Panel Killed Real People:
    A particularly alarming finding concerns deaths of adults in the programs. In one 2 1/2 year stretch, 227 adults already getting services died while waiting for a nurse to reassess their needs. Another 27 died waiting for their initial assessment, to see if they qualified for help.

    The programs at issue provide in-home help for thousands of Alaskans with the basics of life, from medication to meals. The goal is to help people stay in their own homes rather than go into nursing homes or other institutions.


    Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2009/07/14/864670...#storylink=cpy

    Serpent gets a dishonesty trifecta.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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  5. #20
    Over 750 post club Tinark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serpentdove View Post
    You have no biases but I do?
    You repeatedly link to sources full of confirmed lies, and seem no have no problem with it even after the lies are pointed out. You don't want an honest discussion, but instead prefer lies for some reason.
    The universe itself is more impressive and majestic than any god could ever hope to be. The mind of man is an amazing byproduct of an amazing universe. We should relish that thought, marvel at it, and continue to unravel the mystery of not what is "behind" the universe, but what the universe is.

  6. #21
    Over 5000 post club The Barbarian's Avatar
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    When someone labels their presentation "non-partisan", you can bet that it's going to be rabidly partisan.

    Like the used car dealer who labels himself "Honest Joe."

    Caveat emptor.

    In Shreveport, back in the 70s, there was a used car dealer with that name. I don't know if he was practicing honesty in advertising, or if he was playing a little joke on his customers, but it was cool to see "Caveat Emptor Used Cars. We Finance."
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    When someone labels their presentation "non-partisan", you can bet that it's going to be rabidly partisan.
    "The facts of life are conservative." ~ Margaret Thatcher

  8. #23
    Over 5000 post club The Barbarian's Avatar
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    "Honest Maggie", um?

    Yep.

    Only a fool thinks that reality is in complete comformity to her beliefs.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  9. #24
    Over 4000 post club quip's Avatar
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    We need to remove profit from the healthcare scenario...the two don't mix well.

  10. #25
    Over 750 post club Tinark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    We need to remove profit from the healthcare scenario...the two don't mix well.
    Why shouldn't someone profit by alleviating someone else's suffering?

    Healthcare is far too important to make it unprofitable.
    The universe itself is more impressive and majestic than any god could ever hope to be. The mind of man is an amazing byproduct of an amazing universe. We should relish that thought, marvel at it, and continue to unravel the mystery of not what is "behind" the universe, but what the universe is.

  11. #26
    Over 4000 post club quip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinark View Post
    Why shouldn't someone profit by alleviating someone else's suffering?

    Healthcare is far too important to make it unprofitable.
    The one's who need it the most are denied access because they're a loss for the bottom line.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    The one's who need it the most are denied access because they're a loss for the bottom line.
    It is possible to allow companies and doctors to earn profits based on demand and value for providing healthcare without having access denied for those who need it most. There are many different possible set-ups other than a purely free market based approach that still leaves room for profits.
    The universe itself is more impressive and majestic than any god could ever hope to be. The mind of man is an amazing byproduct of an amazing universe. We should relish that thought, marvel at it, and continue to unravel the mystery of not what is "behind" the universe, but what the universe is.

  13. #28
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junius Gallio View Post
    Evidently not--I'm not willing to take sources already established as dishonest seriously. You seem to be.
    Evidence and citations from the video showing that the information is dishonest please. The messenger is irrelevant. Debate the content.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

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  15. #29
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    The fact is, the whole "death panels" story was a scam; the program didn't involve death panels, and it was put in the law by the republicans.
    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...1&postcount=17
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    [Thatcher quote] "Only a fool thinks that reality is in complete comformity [sic] to her beliefs."
    By that she meant that conservatives act on facts. Liberals act on feelings.

    "If your intent is to do good, you are a conservative. If your intent is to feel good about doing good, you are a liberal." ~ Dennis Prager

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