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Thread: ARE THE 12 APOSTLES IN or OUT of the Body of Christ ??

  1. #196
    TOL Legend patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I don't remember you ever saying you were a Jew when you posted here under Untellectual.
    He converted and buried himself in the Torah. He is a jew outwardly now
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



  2. #197
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Shalom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Prove it. It did not.
    Do you believe that the new covenant came in Jesus Christ?
    That is double-talk.
    No. It is not. Jesus did not abolish the Law or the Prophets.
    You do not understand law or grace.
    I do.
    If you say so. Do you go to Israel for the lawfully required feasts?
    I have never been to Israel. Only in visions and computer communication over the internet, like with Theology Online or maybe Facebook (different way things are set up here between these two). I would like to go. This Passover I continue to observe outside the land.
    We don't. We were never given all of the law of Moses to observe.
    I am confused about if you were formerly a Gentile or if you were formerly a stranger to the covenants of promise (not knowing (them) or not participating (with these)). Are you of the commonwealth of Israel?
    Israel is a nation, so that comes as no surprise.
    Yes. But there are non-believers or people who do not obey God('s commands) in the world.
    That is silly and anti-Biblical.
    It may be. But asking prompts someone to examine where they are at (spiritually). However, when I was a Gentile I wondered among other things about what it means to be a part of the commonwealth of Israel, even as a Christian.
    The body of Christ was not given the law of Moses to obey. If you think that you need to keep this law of Moses and live by grace you are totally confused.
    We live by grace, but we do not sin. And sin is transgression of the law.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  3. #198
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    @Jacob

    Are your parents Jews?
    Shalom.

    If they are not now maybe they will be in the future. I have answered no to this in the past.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  4. #199
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I don't remember you ever saying you were a Jew when you posted here under Untellectual.
    Shalom.

    That is a good observation. There was a time in my life when I was only a Christian.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  5. #200
    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom.

    If they are not now maybe they will be in the future. I have answered no to this in the past.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Thank you.

    Just wondering.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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  7. #201
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Thank you.

    Just wondering.
    Shalom.

    You are welcome.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  8. #202
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom.
    Do you believe that the new covenant came in Jesus Christ?
    No, it did not. If you know scripture, you'll know why it is yet future.

    Jer 31:31-34 (KJV)
    (31:31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (31:33) But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Do you think that everyone in Israel, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, knows the LORD today?
    Why are they still teaching?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    No. It is not. Jesus did not abolish the Law or the Prophets.
    And YET the body of Christ is NOT under the law.

    Rom 6:14 (KJV)
    (6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do.
    You say that you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I have never been to Israel. Only in visions and computer communication over the internet, like with Theology Online or maybe Facebook (different way things are set up here between these two). I would like to go. This Passover I continue to observe outside the land.
    The law requires you to be in Jerusalem. So you do not obey the law, you only say that you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I am confused about if you were formerly a Gentile or if you were formerly a stranger to the covenants of promise (not knowing (them) or not participating (with these)). Are you of the commonwealth of Israel?
    Confusion, confusion and confusion. There is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, remember.

    The body of Christ is NOT "of the commonwealth of Israel". We are seated in heavenly places. We do not need to be a part of Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Yes. But there are non-believers or people who do not obey God('s commands) in the world.
    I have no idea what you are getting at here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    It may be. But asking prompts someone to examine where they are at (spiritually). However, when I was a Gentile I wondered among other things about what it means to be a part of the commonwealth of Israel, even as a Christian.
    It means to be a part of the nation of Israel, which the body of Christ is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    We live by grace, but we do not sin. And sin is transgression of the law.
    Those saved by grace through faith are not under the law. Our sins are not counted against us as we are dead to sin by the body of Christ.
    See Romans 6 for the full explanation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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  10. #203
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Shalom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    No, it did not. If you know scripture, you'll know why it is yet future.

    Jer 31:31-34 (KJV)
    (31:31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (31:33) But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (31:34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
    I believe that you misunderstand the scriptures. Do you recognize the new covenant as having come in Yeshua Messiah, Jesus the Christ, Yeshua HaMashiach?
    Do you think that everyone in Israel, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, knows the LORD today?
    Why are they still teaching?
    I believe you are thinking differently from how I think and from what is revealed in the Gospels or in the New Testament Scriptures (Matthew through Revelation are called the New Testament Scriptures by many).
    And YET the body of Christ is NOT under the law.

    Rom 6:14 (KJV)
    (6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Who is not under the law? Any and every believer or only Gentiles if Gentiles are in the body of Christ or make up the body of Christ?

    The law is written on minds and hearts in Jesus Christ.

    You say that you do.
    Do you associate God's grace with the new covenant or do you believe grace existed before the new covenant came to be?
    The law requires you to be in Jerusalem. So you do not obey the law, you only say that you do.
    Paul observed the feast of unleavened bread outside of the land. I wanted to move to Israel but I am still in the United States of America.
    Confusion, confusion and confusion. There is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, remember.
    You misunderstand the scripture that you are championing. I am a Jew. You are saying that there are no Jews which is wrong.
    The body of Christ is NOT "of the commonwealth of Israel". We are seated in heavenly places. We do not need to be a part of Israel.
    Do you believe you were once a stranger to the covenants of promise?
    I have no idea what you are getting at here.
    If there are people who do not obey God's commands the question is if you do. The question is if those who are of Israel observe God's commands. We do. The commands of Torah. And many of us observe the rest of the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation.
    It means to be a part of the nation of Israel, which the body of Christ is not.
    I do not know why you believe this. Who wrote about the commonwealth of Israel in the Bible and who was he writing to? What was he saying or what did he say? Why do you believe that the commonwealth of Israel is mentioned?
    Those saved by grace through faith are not under the law. Our sins are not counted against us as we are dead to sin by the body of Christ.
    Correct. But sin has consequences. You must repent of the sin which or that you have committed.
    See Romans 6 for the full explanation.
    I am familiar with Romans 6.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  11. #204
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom.
    I believe that you misunderstand the scriptures. Do you recognize the new covenant as having come in Yeshua Messiah, Jesus the Christ, Yeshua HaMashiach?
    Not yet. It will come when He returns to establish His throne and His kingdom on the earth. I'm surprised that you do not understand this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I believe you are thinking differently from how I think and from what is revealed in the Gospels or in the New Testament Scriptures (Matthew through Revelation are called the New Testament Scriptures by many).
    And many are incorrect in doing so.

    The new testament cannot begin until the DEATH of the testator (Heb 9:16-17). So the vast majority of MML&J are NOT new testament at all. They cannot be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Who is not under the law? Any and every believer or only Gentiles if Gentiles are in the body of Christ or make up the body of Christ?
    Read the scripture and figure it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    The law is written on minds and hearts in Jesus Christ.
    I will be in the new COVENANT, per scripture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Do you associate God's grace with the new covenant or do you believe grace existed before the new covenant came to be?
    I believe that the dispensation of the grace of God was given to us through Paul, just like he says in the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Paul observed the feast of unleavened bread outside of the land. I wanted to move to Israel but I am still in the United States of America.
    I don't care what you think that Paul did. Paul said that WE are not under the law. That would include Paul.

    The LAW REQUIRES you to go to Jerusalem. You say that you obey the law, but you do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    You misunderstand the scripture that you are championing. I am a Jew. You are saying that there are no Jews which is wrong.
    Gal 3:28 (KJV)
    (3:28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    You reject scripture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Do you believe you were once a stranger to the covenants of promise?
    I know that the blood of Christ saved me regardless of any covenant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    If there are people who do not obey God's commands the question is if you do. The question is if those who are of Israel observe God's commands. We do. The commands of Torah. And many of us observe the rest of the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation.
    You say that you do, but then you prove that you do not. That is double-talk Jacob.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not know why you believe this. Who wrote about the commonwealth of Israel in the Bible and who was he writing to? What was he saying or what did he say? Why do you believe that the commonwealth of Israel is mentioned?
    Because God gave His Word through Israel. BUT NOW God is doing something different per Paul's lengthy explanations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Correct. But sin has consequences. You must repent of the sin which or that you have committed.
    Once again, I have no idea what you point is here. Did Jesus NOT die for all of my sins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I am familiar with Romans 6.
    Apparently, not so much.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

  12. #205
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Shalom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Not yet. It will come when He returns to establish His throne and His kingdom on the earth. I'm surprised that you do not understand this.
    I believe the kingdom came with Yeshua, Jesus, though the new covenant is different.
    And many are incorrect in doing so.
    Have you read Matthew, Matthew Mark and Luke, or the Gospels? Have you read Matthew through Revelation?
    The new testament cannot begin until the DEATH of the testator (Heb 9:16-17).
    Shalom. Interesting. Who do you believe the testator is?
    So the vast majority of MML&J
    I do not know what this is.
    are NOT new testament at all. They cannot be.
    I do not know what you are saying.
    Read the scripture and figure it out.
    I have read the scriptures. The reason I asked you is because you believe that Israel and the body of Christ are not the same.
    I will be in the new COVENANT, per scripture.
    I do not know if you want to explain this but you can if you want to. What is your view and is it correct?
    I believe that the dispensation of the grace of God was given to us through Paul, just like he says in the Bible.
    Paul was given a stewardship of the grace of God.
    I don't care what you think that Paul did.
    Paul also was involved with sacrifice after already having become a believer. The Law has NOT been abolished.
    Paul said that WE are not under the law. That would include Paul.
    Unless it only applies to Gentiles.
    The LAW REQUIRES you to go to Jerusalem. You say that you obey the law, but you do not.
    I do not live in the land of Israel. I would love to go to Israel, but you have to be in Israel to go to Jerusalem.
    Gal 3:28 (KJV)
    (3:28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    You reject scripture.
    No. Of course I am male. You do not know how to correctly interpret this.
    I know that the blood of Christ saved me regardless of any covenant.
    Interesting. The new covenant was for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Do you know about the covenants from the Bible? Begin with the Torah.
    You say that you do, but then you prove that you do not. That is double-talk Jacob.
    You are incorrect. I have spent my life studying scripture, the Bible, and I study the Torah. Some people believe that it is impossible to obey God, but it is not.
    Because God gave His Word through Israel. BUT NOW God is doing something different per Paul's lengthy explanations.
    Paul explained that there is much benefit in being a Jew in that it is the Jews who were entrusted with the word of God.
    Once again, I have no idea what you point is here. Did Jesus NOT die for all of my sins?
    He did. But you must repent and believe the gospel.
    Apparently, not so much.
    I have preached Romans 6 on TOL. But you need to start with Romans 1. Romans 5, and 4, come before, as with 3, 2, and 1. I have learned much from Romans 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, etc... as well.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  13. #206
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom.I believe the kingdom came with Yeshua, Jesus, though the new covenant is different.
    Believe what you want. The LORD Jesus Christ is not yet sitting on the throne of His father David. This is one of the reasons that the 11 asked in Acts 1 if now was the time that He would restore the kingdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Have you read Matthew, Matthew Mark and Luke, or the Gospels? Have you read Matthew through Revelation?
    Indeed I have. That is why I brought up the subject of the death of the testator.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom. Interesting. Who do you believe the testator is?
    Who else can it be but the LORD Jesus Christ? It is HIS testament.

    Have you read Matthew-Revelation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    do not know what this is.
    Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not know what you are saying.
    I'm saying what the Bible says.

    Heb 9:16-17 (KJV)
    (9:16) For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (9:17) For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I have read the scriptures.The reason I asked you is because you believe that Israel and the body of Christ are not the same.
    That is simply because they are not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not know if you want to explain this but you can if you want to. What is your view and is it correct?
    I cannot understand what you're getting at....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Paul was given a stewardship of the grace of God.
    Indeed he was and he claimed that is was uniquely given to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Paul also was involved with sacrifice after already having become a believer. The Law has NOT been abolished.
    Paul was free to do that even though he was not under the law. The law is a curse if you do not do it properly. You say you do, but you've proven that you do not. You are under condemnation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Unless it only applies to Gentiles.
    It applies to anyone that is not under law, but under grace (Romans 6:14-15).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not live in the land of Israel. I would love to go to Israel, but you have to be in Israel to go to Jerusalem.
    So you reject the law because it's inconvenient? Some law observing Jew you've turned out to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    No. Of course I am male. You do not know how to correctly interpret this.
    That is your case with most of scripture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Interesting. The new covenant was for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Do you know about the covenants from the Bible? Begin with the Torah.
    You're getting off the rails again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    You are incorrect. I have spent my life studying scripture, the Bible, and I study the Torah. Some people believe that it is impossible to obey God, but it is not.
    You do not obey God, because you refuse follow the law that you claim to have studied and follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Paul explained that there is much benefit in being a Jew in that it is the Jews who were entrusted with the word of God.He did. But you must repent and believe the gospel.
    Paul also said that Israel is currently fallen and that God is doing something different for a time. Read Romans 9-11.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I have preached Romans 6 on TOL. But you need to start with Romans 1. Romans 5, and 4, come before, as with 3, 2, and 1. I have learned much from Romans 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, etc... as well.
    So you say, but I can see that you do not understand it.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

  14. #207
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Shalom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Believe what you want. The LORD Jesus Christ is not yet sitting on the throne of His father David. This is one of the reasons that the 11 asked in Acts 1 if now was the time that He would restore the kingdom.
    You understand that David is still in his tomb?
    Indeed I have. That is why I brought up the subject of the death of the testator.

    Who else can it be but the LORD Jesus Christ? It is HIS testament.
    And do you believe that He died?

    I do not know what to think about your statement. You have denied the new covenant.
    Have you read Matthew-Revelation?
    Yes.
    Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
    Okay. Thank you.
    I'm saying what the Bible says.

    Heb 9:16-17 (KJV)
    (9:16) For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (9:17) For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


    That is simply because they are not the same.
    Does Israel have any Gentiles in it? When a person becomes a believer from among the Gentiles do they cease to be a Gentile?
    I cannot understand what you're getting at....
    You said that you will be in the new covenant which implies that you are not a part of the new covenant now. If you are not yet understanding what it means for the new covenant to be for the house of Israel and the house of Judah, maybe I understand you.
    Indeed he was and he claimed that is was uniquely given to him.
    He was given a stewardship.
    Paul was free to do that even though he was not under the law. The law is a curse if you do not do it properly. You say you do, but you've proven that you do not. You are under condemnation.
    You are attacking me. I am conversing with you. I observe Torah. There is currently no temple and I do not live in the nation of Israel. To go to Jerusalem would require going to Israel, which I want to do. But I am observing Passover in the United States of America again.
    It applies to anyone that is not under law, but under grace (Romans 6:14-15).
    Do you believe that it is possible to be under the Law and minister to someone who is not?
    So you reject the law because it's inconvenient? Some law observing Jew you've turned out to be.
    I see no reason to reject the law. I observe it or keep it. I obey God's commands. As a Jew and of Israel I observe the Torah. You do not know what you are railing against.
    That is your case with most of scripture.
    Did you reject the new covenant as a strategy against me?
    You're getting off the rails again.
    You did not answer the question. I was asking about your statement. If you do not see a need to defend it, okay.
    You do not obey God, because you refuse follow the law that you claim to have studied and follow.
    You are simply challenging me because I said that I do and you do not.
    Paul also said that Israel is currently fallen and that God is doing something different for a time. Read Romans 9-11.
    You need to read and understand Romans 9-11 in context.
    So you say, but I can see that you do not understand it.
    You are incorrect. I understand it. If you are a part of the body of Christ and you believe you are not of Israel and you do not observe all of God's commands, whether or not you are a part of the body of Christ you can either choose to join Israel and observe all of God's commands, you can observe the Noahide laws, or you can do well to observe God's commands beginning with the commands mentioned in Acts 15 with the Jerusalem council. First you must repent and believe the gospel, that you would be saved.

    Are you a born again believer? Are you born again of and by the Spirit of God?

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  15. #208
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom.
    You understand that David is still in his tomb?
    Is there point to this statement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    And do you believe that He died?
    Are you being intentionally dense? Of course I do.

    The POINT that I was making is the a TESTAMENT does not take effect until the DEATH of the TESTATOR, as it says in Hebrews.

    Heb 9:16-17 (KJV)
    (9:16) For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (9:17) For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

    Since the LORD Jesus Christ did not die until the very END of MML&J, the new testament COULD NOT be in effect throughout MOST of those book and during the LORD's ministry to Israel on earth.

    Can you follow this? It's pretty simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not know what to think about your statement. You have denied the new covenant.
    No, I have NOT "denied the new covenant". I have denied that it has been put into place yet. It is yet future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Does Israel have any Gentiles in it? When a person becomes a believer from among the Gentiles do they cease to be a Gentile?
    As you were told already, Gentiles were always allowed to join with Israel from the very beginning. Which tribe do you think that they become a part of?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    You said that you will be in the new covenant which implies that you are not a part of the new covenant now. If you are not yet understanding what it means for the new covenant to be for the house of Israel and the house of Judah, maybe I understand you.
    Don't speak falsely about what I said. I did NOT say that I "will be in the new covenant". I am a member of the body of Christ which has a different destiny than Israel (with whom God makes His new covenant).

    I am already seated in heavenly place in Christ Jesus, as Paul clearly stated. I am NOT waiting and praying for the kingdom to come to earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    He was given a stewardship.
    Indeed he was and that stewardship was for a dispensation of the gospel of the grace of God. Nobody else had been given THAT stewardship.

    This is way Paul makes statements like these:

    Rom 2:16 (KJV)
    (2:16) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    Rom 16:25 (KJV)
    (16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    2Tim 2:8 (KJV)
    (2:8) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

    Nobody else in scripture makes such statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    You are attacking me. I am conversing with you. I observe Torah. There is currently no temple and I do not live in the nation of Israel. To go to Jerusalem would require going to Israel, which I want to do. But I am observing Passover in the United States of America again.
    I am not attacking you. I'm telling you the truth.

    You CLAIM to be following the law and yet you have admitted that you do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Do you believe that it is possible to be under the Law and minister to someone who is not?I see no reason to reject the law. I observe it or keep it. I obey God's commands. As a Jew and of Israel I observe the Torah. You do not know what you are railing against.
    Once again, you CLAIM that you keep it but admit that you do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Did you reject the new covenant as a strategy against me?You did not answer the question. I was asking about your statement. If you do not see a need to defend it, okay.You are simply challenging me because I said that I do and you do not.You need to read and understand Romans 9-11 in context.
    You are incorrect. I understand it.
    You consistently shown that you do not understand. If you did understand, you would know that Israel has temporarily fallen and that salvation is coming to the Gentiles apart from Israel. That is what Romans 9-11 says.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    If you are a part of the body of Christ and you believe you are not of Israel and you do not observe all of God's commands, whether or not you are a part of the body of Christ you can either choose to join Israel and observe all of God's commands, you can observe the Noahide laws, or you can do well to observe God's commands beginning with the commands mentioned in Acts 15 with the Jerusalem council. First you must repent and believe the gospel, that you would be saved.

    Are you a born again believer? Are you born again of and by the Spirit of God?

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    I am saved by grace through faith because I believe the gospel of the grace of God.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    Tambora (April 8th, 2017)

  17. #209
    BOO Y'all Tambora's Avatar
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    What does the new covenant offer the house of Israel & the house of Judah that the old does not?

    Are you about protecting truth, or protecting feelings?

  18. #210
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Shalom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Is there point to this statement?
    The point is simply that Jesus rose from the dead.
    Are you being intentionally dense? Of course I do.
    Okay.
    The POINT that I was making is the a TESTAMENT does not take effect until the DEATH of the TESTATOR, as it says in Hebrews.
    Okay. I believe you have said now that the testator did die. This is according to your believe that Jesus is the testator I believe.
    Heb 9:16-17 (KJV)
    (9:16) For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (9:17) For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

    Since the LORD Jesus Christ did not die until the very END of MML&J, the new testament COULD NOT be in effect throughout MOST of those book and during the LORD's ministry to Israel on earth.
    What do you mean by this? Are you saying that you believe there was a time when the new covenant came into effect?
    Can you follow this? It's pretty simple.
    I would like to know what you mean.
    No, I have NOT "denied the new covenant". I have denied that it has been put into place yet. It is yet future.
    No. You are incorrect.
    As you were told already, Gentiles were always allowed to join with Israel from the very beginning. Which tribe do you think that they become a part of?
    You have asked a good question here. I do not know the answer to your question. Are you implying that there is an answer you have that you think that I am not privy to?
    Don't speak falsely about what I said. I did NOT say that I "will be in the new covenant". I am a member of the body of Christ which has a different destiny than Israel (with whom God makes His new covenant).
    I did not know that you believe the new covenant is not for the body of Christ.
    I am already seated in heavenly place in Christ Jesus, as Paul clearly stated. I am NOT waiting and praying for the kingdom to come to earth.
    You have some interesting beliefs here. I do not know how to answer you beyond answering what makes sense from what I know. I believe that your answers or response here is misguided.
    Indeed he was and that stewardship was for a dispensation of the gospel of the grace of God. Nobody else had been given THAT stewardship.
    It was something that God entrusted Paul with. Others have ministered God's grace in the gospel as well. Are you talking about God's grace for Gentiles or are you talking about God's grace in the gospel for Jew and Gentile alike?
    Also, do you say Greek rather than Gentile where I have said Gentile here?
    This is way Paul makes statements like these:

    Rom 2:16 (KJV)
    (2:16) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    Rom 16:25 (KJV)
    (16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    2Tim 2:8 (KJV)
    (2:8) Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

    Nobody else in scripture makes such statements.
    I agree that this is Paul, but I am not sensational about it. I accept all of scripture, the entire Bible. I do not pick Paul first.
    I am not attacking you. I'm telling you the truth.
    Okay. This is good to know.
    You CLAIM to be following the law and yet you have admitted that you do not.
    I observe the Torah. There are 613 commands in Torah. I also observe the rest of the TaNaKh and Matthew through Revelation. Matthew through Revelation has 1050 commands. We are all to observe God's commands. I believe that I am to observe all of these commands that are for me, and I am of Israel, a Jew.
    Once again, you CLAIM that you keep it but admit that you do not.
    I disagree. If you knew me you might ask why I keep God's Law.
    You consistently shown that you do not understand. If you did understand, you would know that Israel has temporarily fallen and that salvation is coming to the Gentiles apart from Israel. That is what Romans 9-11 says.
    This was written by Paul a long time ago. But the Torah came before Paul.
    I am not good with history yet, nor prophecy in relation to the nation of Israel. Meaning, I am Torah observant. And this is what we are supposed to observe. The new covenant is God's law written upon minds and hearts for the house of Israel and the house of Judah in Yeshua Messiah.
    I am saved by grace through faith because I believe the gospel of the grace of God.
    That is a good start, believing Ephesians 2:8, 9. I hope you can understand more or understand what this means.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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