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Thread: Jesus is God !

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Jesus is God !

    Matt 19:16-26

    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

    21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

    22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

    23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

    26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


    This passage actually is teaching the Truth that Jesus is God ! Notice vs 17 As the young man had addressed Jesus as good, and Jesus responded accordingly, why callest thou me good, for none is good but ONE, that One Being God

    Now , notice Jesus did not say, none is good but One and that is my Father, but He said that One, Being God !

    Now if Jesus by this is not insinuating that He is God, then the alternative is that He was not good, seeing He just said only ONE, not Two, but ONLY ONE is good.

    Now, if Jesus was not good, being that He was not the Only One Good God, then His commanding him, the young ruler, in order to be perfect, that he must go sell all his possessions, then give to the poor, and follow Him; Such an commandment exposed that the young man loved his possessions above God, which was a violation of the very first commandment, now if Jesus was not God, then the young mans refusal to obey and follow Jesus, could not be a proper standard to gauge his Love to God !

    For there could not have been nothing amiss about not making such a great sacrifice as that Jesus told him, and then following Him if the One speaking was not the One God, who Only was good !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Matt 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    .....
    Notice vs 17 As the young man had addressed Jesus as good, and Jesus responded accordingly, why callest thou me good, for none is good but ONE, that One Being God
    Regarding Matt. 19:17, this verse appears in no extant Greek manuscript predating the compilation of orthodox Christian scripture in the mid-to-late 4th century CE. At that time, the Greek version of this verse (spec., ΤΙΜΕΕΡΩΤΑΣΠΕΡΙΤΟΥΑΓΑΘΟΥΕΙΣΕΣΤΙΝΟΑΓΑΘΟΣ, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One exists that is good") was replaced by the wording in the parallel accounts seen in Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 ("Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."; see Metzger, TCGNT 2nd ed, 39). The wording seen in the KJV is a form of that parallel wording.

    There is no reference in this verse, either direct or implied, that Jesus is God. Rather, Jesus was:

    1. expressing in couched terms (to avoid being killed by his opponents) that the word "God" means love and goodness (1 John 4:8; Matt. 11:15), and
    2. contrasting his understanding of the nature of God with the tribal and cruel spirit God, YHVH (Jehovah), revered by the Jews both then and now.

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Regarding Matt. 19:17, this verse appears in no extant Greek manuscript predating the compilation of orthodox Christian scripture in the mid-to-late 4th century CE. At that time, the Greek version of this verse (spec., ΤΙΜΕΕΡΩΤΑΣΠΕΡΙΤΟΥΑΓΑΘΟΥΕΙΣΕΣΤΙΝΟΑΓΑΘΟΣ, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One exists that is good") was replaced by the wording in the parallel accounts seen in Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19 ("Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."; see Metzger, TCGNT 2nd ed, 39). The wording seen in the KJV is a form of that parallel wording.
    That crap means nothing to me !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    TOL Legend keypurr's Avatar
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    If Jesus died then he is not God for God can not die.

    Paul says he is the image of God, not God.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    If Jesus died then he is not God for God can not die.
    Death to the Jew was to descend into sheol. God can descend into sheol. David said so.

    "If I make my bed in sheol thou art there."

    Therefore, God can die.
    "The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013

    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...73#post3450273

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    If Jesus died then he is not God for God can not die.
    Jesus Christ is one person in two natures, fully human and fully divine. He died in his humanity, not his divinity. However, since Christ is one person it is proper to say that "God died," so long as we understand that the divine nature did not die.

    Likewise it is good to call the Virgin Mary "Mother of God" as she gave birth to God in the flesh.

    Paul says he is the image of God, not God.
    He is the express image of God the Father. How is that possible? Because he has the same nature as God the Father and is therefore himself God.

    "The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us..."

    I close with one of my favorite Christian hymns:

    Only begotten Son and Immortal Word of God, Who for our salvation willed to be incarnate of the Holy Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary; Who without change became man, and were crucified, O Christ our God, trampling down death by death; who are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit- save us!

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    TOL Legend keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconodule View Post
    Jesus Christ is one person in two natures, fully human and fully divine. He died in his humanity, not his divinity. However, since Christ is one person it is proper to say that "God died," so long as we understand that the divine nature did not die.
    i disagree. Jesus and Christ died

    Likewise it is good to call the Virgin Mary "Mother of God" as she gave birth to God in the flesh.

    I disagree again, she is the mother of Jesus

    He is the express image of God the Father. How is that possible? Because he has the same nature as God the Father and is therefore himself God.

    "The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us..."

    I close with one of my favorite Christian hymns:

    Only begotten Son and Immortal Word of God, Who for our salvation willed to be incarnate of the Holy Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary; Who without change became man, and were crucified, O Christ our God, trampling down death by death; who are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit- save us!
    The key words are "express image", that is a creation.
    Christ is a copy of the father, a god, and he can die.

    Peace
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    TOL Legend keypurr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
    Death to the Jew was to descend into sheol. God can descend into sheol. David said so.

    "If I make my bed in sheol thou art there."

    Therefore, God can die.
    To twist or not to twist. Death is death Wile, there is no in between.
    God can not die, at least my God can't.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    i disagree. Jesus and Christ died
    Jesus Christ is one person, fully God and fully man. Therefore, to say "Jesus Christ died" is to say "God died." You cannot separate Jesus from God.

    Likewise it is good to call the Virgin Mary "Mother of God" as she gave birth to God in the flesh.

    I disagree again, she is the mother of Jesus
    And again, Jesus is God. She is therefore the Mother of God.

    The key words are "express image", that is a creation.
    Christ is a copy of the father, a god, and he can die.

    Peace
    Incorrect.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

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    Quote Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
    To twist or not to twist. Death is death Wile, there is no in between.
    God can not die, at least my God can't.
    The God I serve did die as the Man Jesus Christ Rev 2:8

    And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

    This is the risen Christ speaking who died and is alive, byt he also Identifies Himself as The First and the Last, who is God Isa 44:6

    Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.



    I am speaking of the Christ and God I serve, you serve a different god and christ from me anyway !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconodule View Post
    Jesus Christ is one person, fully God and fully man. Therefore, to say "Jesus Christ died" is to say "God died." You cannot separate Jesus from God.



    And again, Jesus is God. She is therefore the Mother of God.



    Incorrect.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
    Jesus is God, he is just NOT God the Father.

    Jn.1:1 is not talking about God the Father but rather speaking of the Son.

    They are two different beings in full agreement, thus they are one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pneuma View Post
    Jesus is God, he is just NOT God the Father.

    Jn.1:1 is not talking about God the Father but rather speaking of the Son.

    They are two different beings in full agreement, thus they are one.
    They are two distinct persons with one being. They are not merely in full agreement but united in essence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconodule View Post
    They are two distinct persons with one being. They are not merely in full agreement but united in essence.

    By that analogy I guess we are all God, many distinct beings united in essence.

    That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


    So do you believe you are God?

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    Sometimes the discussions on TOL make me want to dye my hair blond and go to work at Walmart! No human can comprehend God nor can anyone discern His thoughts. To discuss what God or Jesus is strikes me as close to delusion. Many have debated for over thousands of years the words recorded in Scripture. That accomplishes nothing except maybe to start a few wars. I say unto you that you will find what you seek. You may seek the esteem of others for your impressive knowledge of Scriptures or you may seek God. It is your choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pneuma View Post
    By that analogy I guess we are all God, many distinct beings united in essence.
    Your reasoning does not follow. Man is created; God is uncreate and eternal.

    That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    We can be united to God by grace, but never by nature.

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