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Thread: toldailytopic: Does God require those in the Body of Christ keep the Law?

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    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy2006 View Post
    If by "Law" you mean Jewish law, then no.
    Matthew 23

    1Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

    23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.


    How do you reconcile your claim when you quoted Paul, with the red letters?
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    We ought to keep it. We were strangers to the covenants of promise, and now we are not.
    What if you don't keep it?
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  3. #48
    Silver Member Totton Linnet's Avatar
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    Totty's reply to Lighthouse

    Keep the sabboath holy....Jesus is Lord of sabboath, if He dwells in us we are keeping the sabboath holy.

    Walk in the Spirit and fulfil not the lusts [desires] of the flesh that not everyone who is saved, either in the bible or in church history or today walks in the Spirit is blindingly obvious.

    If we are dead to sin we will not be commiting sin, if you are living a sinful lifestyle then you are not dead to sin...rather you are decieved.

    People who have become accustomed to yielding their members to sin [which leads to death] not only ignore God's guidance but bye and bye they do not even hear it.

    I am focussing on walking in the Spirit. The one living a sinful life is focussed on the flesh and he to whom they have yielded their members to they have become slaves to.

    God will not fellowship with wilful sin, don't be decieved. I am not speaking about salvation but fellowship with God...if you do not know the difference it is because you have never had it or soon after being saved you lost it.

    Do you know Christians who have lost the first joy of salvation? who have no peace? who find prayer impossible? who no longer read and enjoy the scriptures? who are in trouble? who are very sad?

    They have lost their fellowship with God.
    One lavished upon in the Beloved
    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/blog.php?u=10603

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    Journeyman YahuShuan's Avatar
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    Good question Mr. Knight!

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for April 22nd, 2012 05:36 PM


    toldailytopic: Does God require those in the Body of Christ keep the Law?






    Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
    If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.
    I believe it goes this way...

    Yeshua told us that if we loved Him we would keep and guard His Commands. Yeshua is our King. He taught us what we must pray, and how we should pray. I don't know how it is now, but it used to be, that all Christians prayed what they call, "The Lord's Prayer". And most of us did it on our knees, in private, or with family, the church being our extended family.

    Did it become a "vain repetition"? Or did we just not get what we were actually praying for? I sure didn't get it. And yes, it became a vain repetition, and I failed. No need to get deeper into that, suffice it to say, I fell, Yeshua has lifted me up. It was "my own word" by which I was condemned. He drew me to repentance, and that's where I find forgiveness. Back to the subject...

    YES, I believe we are under all that Yeshua commanded. Not just two Commands, although they are the Greatest, they are not all that Yeshua Commands of us. I learn more every day. When we pray the "Lord's Prayer", for us to have understanding of what we pray is essential so it does not become vain repeating.

    1) Our FATHER, who IS in Heaven.
    That tells us WHO to pray to. And where He is. You might want to know what goes on up there before you go on with your mainstream belief systems. How things are done UP THERE. After all, YOU are the ones praying this prayer! (I do too) This also tells us what Authority we are speaking to.

    2) Hallowed be Thy Name!
    Boy have we missed the boat on this. That doesn't say "they Name", but brothers, sisters, we have made our own names so much more iimportant than His Great Name, that most of us haven't a clue what we sing when we sing "Alleluia" anymore. "Hallowed" means "set apart". A "Name above any other Name!" And really, I think most of it could care less what it even is. THAT is sad. So sad. I don't think you have any idea how sad. His Name, is His SIGNATURE! Like The King's Signet Ring. A King who is coming soon! THE KING is coming soon! The Father's Name is YAH. That is why even now, WE sing Alle lu Yah! His Son's Name has His in it. I have gone through that many times here, "enough". And we are asked in the OT, both Names.

    3) THY KINGDOM COME!
    Is it your ideas of what Kingdom is coming, that YOU are asking Him for? Do you think His Kingdom is going to adapt to your ideas? Boy are you going to be mistaken! Oh no. THAT is WHY you have been given ALL of HIS WORDS. All that you were intended to see. THAT is WHY Yeshua said, "slow of HEART to believe ALL the PROPHETS have spoken!" And you just blow Him off like a snotty tissue. Not a wonder He spoke of vomitting people out. HIS KINGDOM! Not yours. You might want to know as much as you can about what goes on up there, because YOU are praying that it comes HERE! AND IT IS COMING! And you KNOW the time for standing is NOW. So stand for what is righteous, or fall with what is wicked.

    4) THY WILL BE DONE!
    Woe boy! THERE'S A BIG ONE! What is His Will? WHERE DID HE GIVE IT TO YOU? HOW do YOU know what it IS? You ask about the "Law"? Again I say, what YESHUA SAID..."IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP AND GUARD MY COMMANDS". "SLOW OF HEART NOT TO BELIEVE ALL THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN!" So, YOU are the ones praying this! YOU must answer the question. HE told US what HIS COMMANDS were, THROUGH HIS PROPHETS! You are asking for His will to be done, and not doing it! And certainly not helping to get it to be done...

    5) HERE ON EARTH, AS IT IS IN HEAVEN!
    As it IS done, in Heaven, and for us to know that, again, we must believe ALL that the Prophets have spoken. How are we going to do that, if we trust in men to tell us what WE are supposed to "search out". Not other men, WE are supposed to search it out. The keep feeding us tainted bread. Bread that is mixed, holy, that which is to be set apart, with that which Yah tells us, "do not put before My Face", and "do not even utter them out of your mouths". OTHER "mighty ones". Do not be sheep led easily to the slaughetr, you are supposed to belong to YAH, and be HIS CHILDREN! "FOREVER". Do they eat pork in Heaven? Do they not observe the Sabbath of Yahuweh on His Set Apart Day? Do they not observe the "Appointed Times of Yahuweh"? Do they not know what the "Oracles of Yah" are? THINK? The "sign of My People forever". Do you know what that is? And where are HIS People? You ask about His Laws if they are to be obeyed, believing in "The Word made flesh" that He walked among us, and throw away "all that the Prophets have spoken"? You do this by not believing they are for you! If they are not, then neither is HE! And if you think HE is going to believe when you say you love Him, again I would say what He said again, "IF YOU LOVE ME! KEEP MY COMMANDS!" He didn't really have to reitterate them to you, but He did show you you must pay close attention to them, because of HOW HE "opened their eyes to the Scriptures" and the only ones around when HE did that, IS what is now deemed "old". So, now, you don't have a clue what to repent for. (or do you?)

    6) Give us THIS DAY, our daily Bread.
    When Yeshua taught us to pray this prayer, what was the LOAF that they had to cut that Bread from? And don't play me on the word loaf, you know what I mean...THE OLD TESTAMENT. Do any of you understand that "TESTAMENT" means WITNESS? You are supposed to be eating up all of the "Witness" that you can so you understand all you see. And you are supposed to ask the Father, so Yeshua will send, The Comforter, and "HE WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS". But there is a process to get us there. First we repent, and then forgiveness ensues. THEN we can ask for what we desire, and Yah will provide. THEN we can go before the High Priest Yeshua with clean hands and a clean heart. And THEN we can eat of His Table because we are now dressed to be there. Why else do you think He told us that some would be thrown out of the Wedding Feast for not being dressed.

    7) FORGIVE US, AS WE FORGIVE OTHERS.
    "Forgive us for violating Your Torah, as we forgive others for violating it too"! THIS IS LOVE! And where do we find belief such as this nowadays, just like He said. As WE, forgive others. That means if we wants to be forgiven, then we are COMMANDED to forgive others. And that requires some depth into ones own soul, and it has to be according to the Word that was when He walked among us. "man will have no excuse". We best get that. You best look into your souls according to HIS WORDS. He made them flesh. PROVING THEM ALL TRUE. And is still doing that TODAY. You must look at others as HE does, not you! Did He come for those who had no sin? What is sin? Transgression of the Torah of Yahuweh. So which of us have not sinned? And is not still sinning now, because we have and are, transgressing HIS Torah? His Torah is way different from the "ordinances" Paul said we are not under. But if you were told the truth there would be no mammon in the churches to do their desires with...So the churchmasters now think anyway, but they too have lost belief, blind leaders of the blind. If they can make you richer, they can have more of it. We must forgive them too, tell them the truth, and not be counted anymore with unbelief.

    8) LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATIONS!
    Now I think you are beginning to get a clue that temptations are things which tell you that you CAN violate Torah. And they get real deep. But you pray not to be led there! Yet, again, like SHEEP, that is where you want to go. Therefore, it is where you wind up. Being tempted saying you are not under the Laws of Yah, and then running to obey the gazzillions of laws of men, and THAT was what Paul was preaching against, all the way to his death. You have seen, not understood, but now you can. So "Do".

    9) but (instead), DELIVER US FROM THE EVIL ONES.
    THAT is what it really says. Now just who do you think those would be? Well, if we "believe all the Prophets have spoken"...The Prophet Isaiah tells us plainly, clearly, and concisely. Isaiah 8:20 says, those who do not speak "according to THIS WORD", and He was referring to the TORAH OF YAHUWEH, "have no light in them!" THAT is who the evils ones are! AND, if YOU are THAT then now you know exactly what to repent for, and what Laws you ARE under, and what laws you are NOT UNDER.

    10) for, THINE IS THE KINGDOM
    So we acknowledge herein that yes, HE is THE RULER, and NOT US.

    11) THINE IS THE POWER, AND THE GLORY!
    Here we acknowledge His SUPREMITY OVER ALL, AND the RESPECT DUE HIM!

    12) FOREVER AND EVER, AMEIN
    That's pretty much self explanatory, we are agreeing that all we have just prayed for, IS FOREVER, and that we desire it to be so.

    Good question Mr. Knight. Each must ask this of Himself now, and search out there salvation with fear and trembling like they were told. Then they will find the power in His Words. When they shirk them no more.

    May Yahuweh bless them and keep them, and cause HIS FACE, to shiine upon them! And may He be gracious unto them...and give them PEACE. Peace, between them, and He.

    I got to add, "fear and trembling" comes as we find out what we have done wrong, things get brought to remembrance on more than one level. But when we have repented then perfect loves casts out the fear, the result of being forgiven.
    YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.

    1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.

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    a-atheist chickenman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Jack View Post
    man, I think your point is an interesting one, but what do you make of Paul's statement in Romans 13:8-10 in light of our present question?
    Hey, Jack-O!

    I think that's a good question, and my view on it will spawn off another debate, I'm sure. But, here goes anyway...

    During Paul's ministry, he preached to some people who had been under the law. Surveying Acts, you can see that in every city he went to, he went to the synagogue first in order to preach to his brethren AND Gentiles who feared God and worshipped in those synagogues with them. Those were people (Israelites and proselytes) who read the scriptures together every Sabbath, who kept the feasts and the laws (or at least tried to, to whatever extent). They were under the law. The Galatians were an example of some in his audience who had been under the law, as he writes to them:
    But before faith came, we were kept under the law...
    Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster... Gal. 3:23-24

    With few exceptions (like the Athenian philosophers, to whom Paul did NOT purpose to preach to but did anyway after they brought him to themselves), Paul preached to these types of people (Jews and proselyte Gentiles living under the law) everywhere he went in Acts.

    We also know that there were people in the world at the same time who were NOT under the law. For instance:
    For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law. Rom. 2:12

    For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves... Rom. 2:14


    Who were the Romans to whom Paul wrote, then? They were Gentiles...
    ...that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. Rom. 1:13a

    For I speak to you Gentiles...Rom. 11:13a

    ...who could be called "Jews"...
    Behold, thou art called a Jew... Rom. 2:17

    ...because they...
    ...restest in the law... Rom. 2:17

    ...[were] instructed out of the law... Rom. 2:18

    ...and were circumcised (Rom. 2:25).

    Though they were far from perfect (hence the purpose of those first 3 chapters), they were proselytes who knew and kept the law. And Paul was writing to them to establish them in the understanding of what the seed of David (who they believed in...Jesus) had accomplished for them (which they obviously didn't fully know) through His sacrifice and resurrection.

    So, long story finally shortened, he's writing to a people who knew and observed the law. Therefore, it made complete sense for him to show what their law-observance boiled down to.
    Owe no man any thing, but to love one another; for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. for this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom. 13:8-10

    A sensible approach to proselyte law-keepers, if you ask me.

    Agree or not, did I adequately address your question, Jackson?

    Thanks!

    Randy
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    What if you don't keep it?
    Great question. I wonder if we are being warned that if we don't we will not have long life.

    Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; )

    Ephesians 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Does God require those in the Body of Christ keep the Law?
    No, for That is what Christ came to do for them He died for, to keep God's Law for them and to bare its condemnation for their breaking it. That was the purpose of the Law in the first place, was for Christ to be made under it, for His Saving Purposes. Gal 4:4

    4But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    Rom 10:4

    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.

    Very good question !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Pep! Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totton Linnet View Post
    Totty's reply to Lighthouse

    Keep the sabboath holy....Jesus is Lord of sabboath, if He dwells in us we are keeping the sabboath holy.
    When Christ is in you every day is holy, not just the seventh day of the week.

    Walk in the Spirit and fulfil not the lusts [desires] of the flesh that not everyone who is saved, either in the bible or in church history or today walks in the Spirit is blindingly obvious.
    Not everyone who claims Christ walks according to the Spirit, and that does include some who are in Him, but we are all in the Spirit, whether or not we walk accordingly.

    If we are dead to sin we will not be commiting sin, if you are living a sinful lifestyle then you are not dead to sin...rather you are decieved.
    The Bible says otherwise. The flesh is in sin, and dead because of it. The spirit is dead to sin and alive in Christ. You clearly don't know Scripture. You need to read Romans, and stop listening to those who tell you something contradictory to Paul's writings. We are not slaves to sin, no matter what the man in the pulpit says.

    People who have become accustomed to yielding their members to sin [which leads to death] not only ignore God's guidance but bye and bye they do not even hear it.
    This makes no difference.

    I am focussing on walking in the Spirit. The one living a sinful life is focussed on the flesh and he to whom they have yielded their members to they have become slaves to.
    Nope. One who has been set free from sin can no longer be a slave to it.

    God will not fellowship with wilful sin, don't be decieved. I am not speaking about salvation but fellowship with God...if you do not know the difference it is because you have never had it or soon after being saved you lost it.
    Christ is in me; that's as deep as fellowship can go.

    Do you know Christians who have lost the first joy of salvation? who have no peace? who find prayer impossible? who no longer read and enjoy the scriptures? who are in trouble? who are very sad?

    They have lost their fellowship with God.
    No, they have merely been deceived into believing such a thing is possible.


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    Over 2500 post club lifeisgood's Avatar
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    Colossians 3:13-15 says:

    “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh (speaks of spiritual death [i.e., “separation from God”], which sin does!), has He quickened together with Him (refers to being made spiritually alive, which is done through being “Born-Again”), having forgiven you all trespasses (the Cross made it possible for all manner of sins to be forgiven and taken away);

    “Blotting out the handwriting of Ordinances that was against us (pertains to the Law of Moses, which was God’s standard of Righteousness that man could not reach), which was contrary to us (law, any law we make or man makes for us, is against us, simply because we are unable to keep its precepts, no matter how hard we try, eventually we will fall), and took it out of the way (refers to the penalty of the Law being removed), nailing it to His Cross (when Jesus was crucified the ritual of the Law was removed, because Jesus said that He had not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it, so if he did not destroyed the Law or the prophets [Mat. 5:17], then the law continues, e.g., if it was wrong in the Law to kill then, then it is wrong to kill now; Jesus did not destroy that law);

    “And having spoiled principalities and powers (sin being the legal right that Satan had to hold man in captivity, Satan and all his henchmen defeated at the Cross by Christ atoning for all sin, Satan no longer has the legal right to hold anyone in bondage), Christ made a show of them openly (what Jesus did at the Cross was in the face of the whole universe), triumphing over them in it (the triumph is complete and it was all done for us, meaning we can walk in power and perpetual victory due to the Cross.)”

    So, for me, the Law was not abolished, but fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled all of the Law and I now, if I am in Christ [Rom 6:3-5] and I stay in Christ trusting exclusively in what He did for me, I also am fulfilling the Law, because with my eyes placed on Him and what He did, I will not want to do what is displeasing to Him. For as long as I keep on saying “yes” to Him, automatically I am saying “no” to whatever I want.

    Just my 2 cents.

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    a-atheist chickenman's Avatar
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    Welcome to TOL, lifeisgood.
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    What if you don't keep it?
    Matthew 5:19
    "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

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    Over 2500 post club lifeisgood's Avatar
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    Thank you.

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    Silver Member Totton Linnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    When Christ is in you every day is holy, not just the seventh day of the week.


    Not everyone who claims Christ walks according to the Spirit, and that does include some who are in Him, but we are all in the Spirit, whether or not we walk accordingly.


    The Bible says otherwise. The flesh is in sin, and dead because of it. The spirit is dead to sin and alive in Christ. You clearly don't know Scripture. You need to read Romans, and stop listening to those who tell you something contradictory to Paul's writings. We are not slaves to sin, no matter what the man in the pulpit says.


    This makes no difference.


    Nope. One who has been set free from sin can no longer be a slave to it.


    Christ is in me; that's as deep as fellowship can go.


    No, they have merely been deceived into believing such a thing is possible.
    *
    Well let's look at what Paul says then

    Romans ch. 6.vs.1-4

    What shall we say then? are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid! how can we who have died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

    We were buried therefore with Him by baptism into death so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father we too might walk in newness of life.


    The baptism Paul here speaks of can only refer to water baptism, there is no analogy here in being buried and raised to newness of life to Holy Spirit baptism. He makes clear that if you are still living in sin you have not died to it.

    Did you rise to walk in newness of life? I've got plenty more to share from this power packed 6th chapter of Romans if you want it.

    The first step towards holiness is to see that God requires it, the second step is to agree with God and the third step is to desire it.

    None of this is possible in our own power. What you are doing is to turn the glorious doctrine of grace into a license for sin....God forbid sir, God forbid.
    One lavished upon in the Beloved
    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/blog.php?u=10603

  16. #59
    Pep! Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlephTav View Post
    Matthew 5:19
    "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
    What if God annuls it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Totton Linnet View Post
    *
    Well let's look at what Paul says then

    Romans ch. 6.vs.1-4

    What shall we say then? are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid! how can we who have died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

    We were buried therefore with Him by baptism into death so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father we too might walk in newness of life.


    The baptism Paul here speaks of can only refer to water baptism, there is no analogy here in being buried and raised to newness of life to Holy Spirit baptism. He makes clear that if you are still living in sin you have not died to it.

    Did you rise to walk in newness of life? I've got plenty more to share from this power packed 6th chapter of Romans if you want it.

    The first step towards holiness is to see that God requires it, the second step is to agree with God and the third step is to desire it.

    None of this is possible in our own power. What you are doing is to turn the glorious doctrine of grace into a license for sin....God forbid sir, God forbid.


    The word "baptism" does not mean "water baptism;" it means "immersion." "Water baptism" is "water immersion." So to be "baptized" into Christ, as Paul put it, is to be "immersed" into Christ. We were immersed in His death in that our sinful flesh was put to death. And we are raised with Him as new creations, in spirit. We are dead to sin; we can't live in it any longer? And this is why we should not continue in sin with the intent that grace may abound.

    And at which point have I ever indicated that grace is a license to sin, you ninny? Grace is freedom from sin. Christ died to pull us out of the muck, not so we can wallow in it.


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  18. #60
    Silver Member Totton Linnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    What if God annuls it?




    The word "baptism" does not mean "water baptism;" it means "immersion." "Water baptism" is "water immersion." So to be "baptized" into Christ, as Paul put it, is to be "immersed" into Christ. We were immersed in His death in that our sinful flesh was put to death. And we are raised with Him as new creations, in spirit. We are dead to sin; we can't live in it any longer? And this is why we should not continue in sin with the intent that grace may abound.

    And at which point have I ever indicated that grace is a license to sin, you ninny? Grace is freedom from sin. Christ died to pull us out of the muck, not so we can wallow in it.
    *
    Then you had absolutely no quarrel with my first post....apart from your usual stupidity. I you believe we should not continue in sin but walk in newness of life say that clearly.
    One lavished upon in the Beloved
    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/blog.php?u=10603

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