User Tag List

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 82

Thread: toldailytopic: Does God require those in the Body of Christ keep the Law?

  1. #31
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, WA
    Posts
    8,413
    Thanks
    45
    Thanked 412 Times in 388 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    54827
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    Of course. Did I say we should not?
    Is the commandment found in the law?
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  2. #32
    a-atheist chickenman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Louisiana
    Posts
    3,166
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 317 Times in 287 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    232553
    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    Is the commandment found in the law?
    Yes.
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

  3. #33
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, WA
    Posts
    8,413
    Thanks
    45
    Thanked 412 Times in 388 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    54827
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    Yes.
    Then maybe it's not against the law to observe it.
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  4. #34
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    472
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    507
    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    You should honor your Father and Mother.
    Ephesians 6:1-3
    “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.” (Exodus 20:12)

  5. #35
    a-atheist chickenman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Louisiana
    Posts
    3,166
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 317 Times in 287 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    232553
    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    Then maybe it's not against the law to observe it.
    I never said anything about it being against the law. I said we cannot keep it since we are not under the law given to Israel. How can you keep a law you're not under?

    I live in Louisiana. In New York city, there's a law against spitting on the sidewalk. So if I choose to not spit on the sidewalk here in Louisiana, then am I obeying the law of New York City?
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

  6. #36
    Fiddle Dee Dee Tambora's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    37,966
    Thanks
    103,006
    Thanked 31,515 Times in 20,126 Posts

    Mentioned
    125 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2148022
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    I never said anything about it being against the law. I said we cannot keep it since we are not under the law given to Israel. How can you keep a law you're not under?

    I live in Louisiana. In New York city, there's a law against spitting on the sidewalk. So if I choose to not spit on the sidewalk here in Louisiana, then am I obeying the law of New York City?
    Nope, you are not breaking the law given for New Yorkers.

    I make the alligators look tame.
    A wretched, spiteful, straight-razor totin' woman.
    Lord have mercy.


  7. #37
    a-atheist chickenman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Louisiana
    Posts
    3,166
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 317 Times in 287 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    232553
    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Nope, you are not breaking the law given for New Yorkers.
    Right. Nor am I keeping it if I don't spit.

    If I sit in my easy chair all day on Saturday, I'm not keeping Israel's law of the Sabbath. For if I could possibly be keeping it, then I would be breaking it if I worked. And if I break it, then under that very law, I should be stoned.

    If I honor my father and mother, then I'm not keeping Israel's law. For if I could possibly be keeping it, then I would be breaking it if I failed to honor them. And if I break it, then under that very law, I should be executed.

    And so on...
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

  8. #38
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, WA
    Posts
    8,413
    Thanks
    45
    Thanked 412 Times in 388 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    54827
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    I never said anything about it being against the law. I said we cannot keep it since we are not under the law given to Israel. How can you keep a law you're not under?

    I live in Louisiana. In New York city, there's a law against spitting on the sidewalk. So if I choose to not spit on the sidewalk here in Louisiana, then am I obeying the law of New York City?
    If we can't keep it, then what's the use in keeping it?

    Not that we are saved by keeping it, but that we are commanded to keep it. We ought to be obedient, for God's sake and the sake of Christ.

    When you say "it" you are talking about the command. The commandment to Honor your Father and Mother was given to Israel. "Then maybe it's not for us."
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  9. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    970
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    Right. Nor am I keeping it if I don't spit.

    If I sit in my easy chair all day on Saturday, I'm not keeping Israel's law of the Sabbath. For if I could possibly be keeping it, then I would be breaking it if I worked. And if I break it, then under that very law, I should be stoned.

    If I honor my father and mother, then I'm not keeping Israel's law. For if I could possibly be keeping it, then I would be breaking it if I failed to honor them. And if I break it, then under that very law, I should be executed.

    And so on...
    It doesn't seem like that's what Paul was saying, at least with the moral law. After all, our consciences don't go away as Christians. The law is fulfilled by the spirit (Rom 3:31), not nullified. It is no longer an oppressive taskmaster, but rather a part of us (Jer 31:33).


  10. #40
    a-atheist chickenman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Louisiana
    Posts
    3,166
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 317 Times in 287 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    232553
    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    If we can't keep it, then what's the use in keeping it?

    Not that we are saved by keeping it, but that we are commanded to keep it. We ought to be obedient, for God's sake and the sake of Christ.

    When you say "it" you are talking about the command. The commandment to Honor your Father and Mother was given to Israel. "Then maybe it's not for us."
    I can't tell if we're talking past each other, I'm not writing in an understandable way, or you're just being difficult for fun. I'm sorry if it's either of the first two. I'll try to be more clear.

    Israel was given a commandment: Honor your father and mother. All individuals were to keep it, or else there would be a consequence.
    Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deut. 5:16

    That was a law given specifically to Israel. It was not given to the Body of Christ. So we cannot keep nor break it. However, should we in the Body of Christ honor our fathers and mothers? Of course! Paul writes to members of the Body of Christ admonishing them to do that very thing. But my honoring of my mother isn't in obedience to a law that I'm not under.

    If you do not spit on the sidewalk, are you obeying the laws of New York City, Untellectual?
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

  11. #41
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    9,316
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 485 Times in 445 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147688
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    I can't tell if we're talking past each other, I'm not writing in an understandable way, or you're just being difficult for fun. I'm sorry if it's either of the first two. I'll try to be more clear.

    Israel was given a commandment: Honor your father and mother. All individuals were to keep it, or else there would be a consequence.
    Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deut. 5:16

    That was a law given specifically to Israel. It was not given to the Body of Christ. So we cannot keep nor break it. However, should we in the Body of Christ honor our fathers and mothers? Of course! Paul writes to members of the Body of Christ admonishing them to do that very thing. But my honoring of my mother isn't in obedience to a law that I'm not under.

    If you do not spit on the sidewalk, are you obeying the laws of New York City, Untellectual?
    It's the Heart of Christ within you.

  12. #42
    Over 500 post club Jedidiah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    533
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    912
    I read "the Law," and because of the capitalization, I took it to mean the Old Testament Law.

    One may say that the only law is, "Mankind reaps what Mankind has sown."

    This law is impossible to break, barring miraculous intervention.

    I have never heard of a man sowing seeds of weeds, tares or thistles, and then reaping a harvest of raspberries.


  13. #43
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, WA
    Posts
    8,413
    Thanks
    45
    Thanked 412 Times in 388 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    54827
    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    I can't tell if we're talking past each other, I'm not writing in an understandable way, or you're just being difficult for fun. I'm sorry if it's either of the first two. I'll try to be more clear.

    Israel was given a commandment: Honor your father and mother. All individuals were to keep it, or else there would be a consequence.
    Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Deut. 5:16

    That was a law given specifically to Israel. It was not given to the Body of Christ. So we cannot keep nor break it.
    We ought to keep it. We were strangers to the covenants of promise, and now we are not.
    However, should we in the Body of Christ honor our fathers and mothers? Of course! Paul writes to members of the Body of Christ admonishing them to do that very thing. But my honoring of my mother isn't in obedience to a law that I'm not under.
    You shouldn't think that you are under the commandment as a law if you are keeping it.
    If you do not spit on the sidewalk, are you obeying the laws of New York City, Untellectual?
    If there is a law to not spit on the sidewalk in New York City, then yes.

    The question is if the law of New York City has jurisdiction over me, as I do not live in New York.

    Romans 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives?

    This conversation should continue, that we be found right even if we have begun the discussion coming from different angles.
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  14. #44
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    844
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    man, I think your point is an interesting one, but what do you make of Paul's statement in Romans 13:8-10 in light of our present question?

  15. #45
    Pep! Lighthouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Anderson, IN
    Posts
    20,553
    Thanks
    1,052
    Thanked 12,496 Times in 9,620 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    1734445
    Quote Originally Posted by Totton Linnet View Post
    If we are walking in the Spirit which of the 10 commandments will we deliberately break?
    The Sabbath.

    Now you need to ask yourself which of them you unintentionally break.

    Grace is a much higher principle than the law, now if we walk not in the Spirit we are not sinning but we will have not the joy or the peace or the love of God manifest in our lives. What unhappy creatures we shall be...do you know anybody like that?
    WRONG!

    If one is not in the Spirit they are in sin. There are only those two options.

    We will backslide, we fall back into the ways we had before we were saved and God WILL judge us for it, not at all to the loss of our salvation but He will punish deliberate sin in the life of the believer and we shall suffer great loss.
    How can we backslide if we are dead to sin; that which is dead cannot live again without the power of God, and God will not revive that which He has put to death in us. We cannot be in the Spirit and the flesh at the same time, and if we are in Christ we are in the Spirit, no two ways about it. If you are not in the Spirit you are not in Christ; and if you are not in Christ He is not in you.

    Moreover we will lose God's guidance for our lives, we will make mistakes, we will find our way hedged about with thorns. We will get hurt.
    We cannot lose His guidance, we can only ignore it, and we only do that if we focus on the flesh, which is dead and decaying. But why focus on the dead rather than the living? Why focus on a flesh in which we no longer are, rather than the Spirit within which we have been permanently placed?

    Keep short accounts with God breths, He will faithfully show you sin, as soon as He does mend your ways. Even human friends do this if they want to maintain fellowship, our fellowship is with God.
    Fellowship with God cannot be lost, for He maintains His fellowship with us, not the other way around. And we cannot mend our ways. We can only act according to our nature, and if we focus on the living we will reflect that in our actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    If France has laws that say, "Don't steal" and "Don't spit on the sidewalk", then if I don't steal and if I don't spit on the sidewalk, I'm not abiding by the laws of France. I cannot keep something that I am not under and that was not given to me. I can do things that LOOK like French-law-keeping, but I'm not actually keeping their laws.

    God gave the law to Israel, not to the Body of Christ. So if I try real hard to honor my father and mother, and I think I'm doing it to keep the law, then I'm fooling myself. I can't possibly keep one aspect of Israel's law since it wasn't given to me.

    God didn't give the law to the Body of Christ, therefore God does not expect us to try to keep it. And we couldn't, even if we thought we had to try.


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us