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Thread: What is "Crucified with Christ"? AKA the infamous Meat and Milk seals debate

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    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    I'm not too big on doing what I'm about to do, but...


    That OP I just read is the biggest pile of crap I believe I've ever seen here on TOL. Unbelievable...
    ..and, likewise, I think your book should be burned. I can respect you as a person, but as to your 'theology', it is as far from the gospel, as hell itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    No one has said a believer becomes a new creation gradually, but that after becoming a new creature they grow in wisdom and grace.




    I assure you that God chastises every son He receives, and for good reason.

    When do you find in the natural that children do not play in the mud or disobey their parents to get a sense of them and of what it is to disobey?

    God sees all, and is not stupid to pretend with his children, when they dirty themselves and also refuse correction of their Mother then their Father is concerned, especially when they do know better--

    Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
    Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
    Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
    Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
    Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
    Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
    Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
    Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
    Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
    Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
    Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

    LA
    Thank you LA.


    Whoever thought I said the born again process is gradual, cannot read, or they are just plain ignorant.

    I have stated over and over that salvation is a one time event/born again...and, then we grow and mature into the crucified man.

    They cannot read, they cannot comprehend.

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    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    ..and, likewise, I think your book should be burned.
    Do you burn books you've never read before? Like the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    I have stated over and over that salvation is a one time event/born again...and, then we grow and mature into the crucified man.
    Made up. Silliest thing I've ever heard from a "Christian".
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    heir (May 12th, 2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    I have stated over and over that salvation is a one time event/born again...and, then we grow and mature into the crucified man.
    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

    Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6:6

    Anyone that is not "the crucified man" has not been baptized into Christ. He is not saved.

    Do you consider yourself to have "grow[n] and mature[d] into the crucified man", grace? Or are you waiting for that to happen?

    You only seem to be interested in either clapping someone on the back if they agree with you, or rebuking someone if they disagree with you. I.e., in your mind, your theology and doctrine is what everyone else needs to aspire to. But I hope that just this once you'll humble yourself to the simple and very clear truth of Romans 6 and realize that once someone is baptized into Christ, it is at that very point that he is this "crucified man" of whom you speak. It is at that very moment that he has risen with Christ and is perfect and righteous by virtue of being in Him. It is at that very moment that he is crucified with Christ, his life no longer his own, but Christ lives in Him. It is at that very moment that he is clothed with Christ, and he is hidden in Him. His old man is crucified; he does not work on crucifying him, striving to become a "crucified man" one day in the future.

    He can do absolutely nothing else to be made perfect in Him. He can desire, strive, and hope to be better as a man on earth. But he cannot be perfected in Christ not an ounce more than he is at that very moment.

    If he has to become a crucified man, after being saved, then that means he has to crucify Christ again. What a dangerous position to take.
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

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    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

    Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6:6

    Anyone that is not "the crucified man" has not been baptized into Christ. He is not saved.

    Do you consider yourself to have "grow[n] and mature[d] into the crucified man", grace? Or are you waiting for that to happen?

    You only seem to be interested in either clapping someone on the back if they agree with you, or rebuking someone if they disagree with you. I.e., in your mind, your theology and doctrine is what everyone else needs to aspire to. But I hope that just this once you'll humble yourself to the simple and very clear truth of Romans 6 and realize that once someone is baptized into Christ, it is at that very point that he is this "crucified man" of whom you speak. It is at that very moment that he has risen with Christ and is perfect and righteous by virtue of being in Him. It is at that very moment that he is crucified with Christ, his life no longer his own, but Christ lives in Him. It is at that very moment that he is clothed with Christ, and he is hidden in Him. His old man is crucified; he does not work on crucifying him, striving to become a "crucified man" one day in the future.

    He can do absolutely nothing else to be made perfect in Him. He can desire, strive, and hope to be better as a man on earth. But he cannot be perfected in Christ not an ounce more than he is at that very moment.

    If he has to become a crucified man, after being saved, then that means he has to crucify Christ again. What a dangerous position to take.
    Outstanding!

    And I will say ...

    Are you about protecting truth, or protecting feelings?

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    ..as to your 'theology', it is as far from the gospel, as hell itself.
    It's funny: In the past, I would post on TOL that a person is saved when he believes that Christ died for his sins and rose again (example here). You would AMEN the statement (rightly so). Now, for some odd reason, I'm wrong and far from the gospel.

    I haven't changed in what I believe. So what does that mean?
    Last edited by chickenman; March 31st, 2012 at 04:48 PM. Reason: fixed bad grammar
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

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    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    It's funny: In the past, I would post on TOL that a person is saved when the believe that Christ died for their sins and rose again (example here). You would AMEN the statement (rightly so). Now, for some odd reason, I'm wrong and far from the gospel.

    I haven't changed in what I believe. So what does that mean?
    Oh oh oh!!!!

    Are you about protecting truth, or protecting feelings?

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    Captain (July 11th, 2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Oh oh oh!!!!
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Outstanding!

    And I will say ...
    Praise the Lord!
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Made up. Silliest thing I've ever heard from a "Christian".
    Tops even this stumper:

    "nowhere does the bible say you are sealed upon salvation...you add that thought to the verse in question...the maturation is the 'sealing'...(making your calling and election sure)...once saved always saved is a lie. once sealed/matured always sealed is not.This is the truth....I do NOT believe in osas...OSAS is true to a point...you are either born again, or you are not...there is no in between...."-GP

    "OSAS is true to a point..." vs. "you are either born again, or you are not...there is no in between"

    Here come da milk closer.
    Saint John W

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    "They cannot read, they cannot comprehend."-GP

    We've been outed.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by chickenman View Post
    Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

    Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6:6

    Anyone that is not "the crucified man" has not been baptized into Christ. He is not saved.

    Do you consider yourself to have "grow[n] and mature[d] into the crucified man", grace? Or are you waiting for that to happen?

    You only seem to be interested in either clapping someone on the back if they agree with you, or rebuking someone if they disagree with you. I.e., in your mind, your theology and doctrine is what everyone else needs to aspire to. But I hope that just this once you'll humble yourself to the simple and very clear truth of Romans 6 and realize that once someone is baptized into Christ, it is at that very point that he is this "crucified man" of whom you speak. It is at that very moment that he has risen with Christ and is perfect and righteous by virtue of being in Him. It is at that very moment that he is crucified with Christ, his life no longer his own, but Christ lives in Him. It is at that very moment that he is clothed with Christ, and he is hidden in Him. His old man is crucified; he does not work on crucifying him, striving to become a "crucified man" one day in the future.

    He can do absolutely nothing else to be made perfect in Him. He can desire, strive, and hope to be better as a man on earth. But he cannot be perfected in Christ not an ounce more than he is at that very moment.

    If he has to become a crucified man, after being saved, then that means he has to crucify Christ again. What a dangerous position to take.

    I can follow what she is saying even if she does not say it exactly as I would.

    If you have been changing in your attitude, thinking, and doing, since you were first converted then you would have to agree with her.

    Clearly the position you hold with God through your being in Christ is one thing, and your overcoming in this life before your resurrection is another.

    Those whose lives are not changing for the better by the word of God, do not walk in salvation.

    Think about why David killed Goliath twice.

    and why those who are seated on thrones are beheaded by the word of God after their conversion. (Rev.20)

    To trust in a doctrine that you believe in the works of Christ, without the Spirit which led Him to His death (as a believer not a sinner) doing the same thing in you, is a mistake to rely upon.

    Those being led to death that the life of Christ might be manifest in them, do know about it, and those who trust in their doctrine and remain unchanging, are not following Christ.

    LA

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    Some confuse the doctrine of being "crucified with Christ" with being born again/initial salvation.

    I believe it is what occurs once you have made your calling and election SURE. In other words, once you have had your faith tested, and, you can no longer be tossed to or fro with every wind of doctrine.

    I would like to discuss this...issue.

    Anyone up for it?
    I don't believe the verse is talking about progressive sanctification.

    Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    I can follow what she is saying even if she does not say it exactly as I would.

    If you have been changing in your attitude, thinking, and doing, since you were first converted then you would have to agree with her.

    Clearly the position you hold with God through your being in Christ is one thing, and your overcoming in this life before your resurrection is another.

    Those whose lives are not changing for the better by the word of God, do not walk in salvation.

    Think about why David killed Goliath twice.

    and why those who are seated on thrones are beheaded by the word of God after their conversion. (Rev.20)

    To trust in a doctrine that you believe in the works of Christ, without the Spirit which led Him to His death (as a believer not a sinner) doing the same thing in you, is a mistake to rely upon.

    Those being led to death that the life of Christ might be manifest in them, do know about it, and those who trust in their doctrine and remain unchanging, are not following Christ.

    LA
    One is either crucified with Christ...or not. You don't strive for it.
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

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