User Tag List

Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 145

Thread: What is "Crucified with Christ"? AKA the infamous Meat and Milk seals debate

  1. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    499
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    I was....me....myself.

    Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

    At the very moment of one's salvation, a believer died to the evil of the flesh, which is the sin nature and his life is now hidden with Christ in God.

    The old man was crucified with Him.

    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
    Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
    Not true..read Col 1, before you get to chapters 2, and 3.

    One must remain in the faith; have love perfected, and then he can never fall.


    Once love is perfected; and the christian is mature...they can never fall.

    Let's teach the truth..today...



  2. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    499
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    Well, she hates your god.

    You have never been born again to know anything about it.

    LA
    Yes, I hate his god, but I do love him.


    I know God is going to correct his evil message, in His own time.




    Teaching a believer that they can never fall, is the snare of the devil, it keeps believers in satans trap/snare.


    It keeps them from having their mind convicted of their unbelief, and that is just how satan likes it.



  3. #18
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18,210
    Thanks
    3,013
    Thanked 18,879 Times in 11,067 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147795
    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    Teaching a believer that they can never fall, is the snare of the devil, it keeps believers in satans trap/snare.

    Made up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to SaulToPaul For Your Post:

    heir (May 12th, 2016)

  5. #19
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18,210
    Thanks
    3,013
    Thanked 18,879 Times in 11,067 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147795
    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    Let's teach the truth..today...

    GP: "Put away your teachers."
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to SaulToPaul For Your Post:

    heir (May 12th, 2016)

  7. #20
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18,210
    Thanks
    3,013
    Thanked 18,879 Times in 11,067 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147795
    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    once you have learned the full will of God for your salvation, which is to be able as a mature man, to know the difference fully between good and evil:

    Made up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to SaulToPaul For Your Post:

    heir (May 12th, 2016)

  9. #21
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    20,493
    Thanks
    336
    Thanked 935 Times in 770 Posts

    Blog Entries
    10
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    853230
    Crucified with Christ
    nailed to the cross
    born again
    etc.
    are phrases from the bible that are parroted way too often without really understanding their meaning
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  10. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    499
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Howdy Mr Deets:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by graceandpeace
    Some confuse the doctrine of being "crucified with Christ" with being born again/initial salvation.

    Mr Deets:

    How many salvations or stages to salvation are there?
    Salvation is one event...as I have said...not two...or three, or four, or etc...there are stages of maturity within it, however, and this is what I am speaking of.


    We are born again as a babe, and we grow in grace and in knowledge, agree?


    Peter said, grow in what?

    2 Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


    2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.

    Paul said the same...there is one spirit; and it speaks truth.

    Paul said, 'put on the fulness of the stature of Christ', I already gave that verse in another post, so go read of it...we are not mature in knowledge upon initial salvation, and we can only have assurance once we are a mature man.







    I said:

    Quote:
    I believe it is what occurs once you have made your calling and election SURE. In other words, once you have had your faith tested, and, you can no longer be tossed to or fro with every wind of doctrine.
    Mr Deets:

    What if I feel that I'm sure, but then I stumble? Or if I'm sure, but then I realize I'm not? Does that mean I haven't been crucified with Him?
    No, once you are mature; you can never again stumble...so if you are still unsure, you are not yet mature; but you are saved, and so the commandment would be, to continue to grow in grace and knowledge unto the mature man.




    I said:

    Quote:
    I would like to discuss this...issue.

    Anyone up for it?


    I said:

    Quote:
    My main focus is on that all who are saved are born again, but not all who are born again, have learned the WILL of God, or purpose of God, for their salvation.

    Mr Deets:

    Okay, but that has nothing to do with being crucified with Him.
    Yes it does, if you understand it correctly, in mho...the teaching of it defines the mature man.

    The man who has learned to be able to discern good and evil.

    Only when one surrenders his full will to God, can a man be complete. WE do not do this upon initial salvation, for we must have the HOLY SPIRIT IN ORDER TO GET IT DONE.

    THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT AS A FACT.

    Example:

    The carnal man cannot hear the law of God, so how in the world would or could anyone carnal begin to obey Him?

    His law is faith working by love, not the law of moses, btw..so, lets not get side tracked into that wrong understanding too.





    Quote:
    In order to never fall, you must be crucified with Christ.





    Quote:
    That means, you must learn and grow in grace and in knowledge, until you KNOW and can discern good and evil.


    Mr Deets:

    So, we have to work for it?
    No, we have to submit...that is not a work, persay....is it? We submit via our own freewill, He did not save us and remove it, nor did He say we did not have before salvation. We have always had the ability to submit to Him...even in the carnal state...otherwise, none of us would ever be saved. Submitting and hearing or grasping 'truth' is not the same thing. Faith is about submitting to what you do not yet KNOW OR UNDERSTAND...IT IS TAKING THE INITIAL STEP, WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE THAT IT IS TRUE. We must define the word by how God does...hope in things UNSEEN..so, we are saved initially, without assurance...period, and, then we grow to that assurance, and this is what the bible teaches....


    Quote:
    It is at this point that you have died to the law. You cannot immediately die to the law, upon initial salvation, because it takes having the holy spirit in order to get it done.
    Mr Deets:


    Romans 8:1-2. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." (Emphasis mine)
    Do you see the part that says, 'who do not walk according to the flesh'? If so, you must begin to see that it is conditional upon how you walk...if you choose to walk in the flesh, you are choosing to not SUBMIT TO THE SPIRIT..AND, THE SPIRIT CAN BE QUENCHED BY DOING THIS.

    He gave us the Holy Spirit so that we could CHOOSE to submit to Him...and, His will.


    Mr Deets:

    Again, I have to work for it? I must grow in grace and knowledge before I am in Him, which is when I am dead to the law? There sure are lots of conditions to salvation...
    No, you grow in grace and in knowledge AFTER you are in Him, and with the power of the Holy Spirit, you have the choice to submit to Him...did you read my post?



    I said:

    Quote:
    We are saved/justified, without the law,(born again), and, then we must die to the law/be crucified with Jesus.

    Mr Deets:


    I didn't realize it was a 2 part or three part deal. Revelation 3:20. "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."
    It is conditional ONLY after you are saved..for He gives you the POWER, through the Holy Spirit to submit to His will. You did not have that power, while you were yet carnal...which is why salvation is a FREE gift, to begin with.....but, IF you choose of your own freewill, AFTERwards and quench the Holy SPIRIT, BECAUSE THAT IS THE POWER THAT ENABLES YOU TO DO HIS WILL, THEN YOU CAN BE LED BACK TO UNBELIEF, OF YOUR OWN FREEWILL.

    He saved you to be a LIGHT; THAT IS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR SALVATION, AND YOU HAVE THE FREEWILL TO PUT THAT LIGHT UNDER A BASKET AND SNUFF IT OUT.



    I said:

    Quote:
    Is anyone on this board with me?
    Mr Deets:


    Not me. If we must earn it, or work for it, then we are hopeless.

    As I have said, you do not earn it, but you must SUBMIT to it; or you are quenching out the FREE gift that He did give you freely.

    You are not a robot, you have freewill, and you get to CHOOSE to do HIS will, or go backwards...remember Lot's wife....remember the dog that returned to his own vomit....God has never forced His will on anyone, and it is a false gospel to say or claim He does.


    He wants YOU to choose to love Him back, and to CHOOSE to accept and submit to His will....this is the other part of why you WERE freely saved.

    You could not do that, without the HOLY spirit; and now that you have it, it is UNBELIEF TO DENY THE POWER OF GOD, THAT HE GAVE YOU FREELY.


    'There is no one righteous, there is no one good but God, there is no one who does good, etc...'
    Yes, under the law of moses; as the carnal man...God gives YOU the HOLY SPIRIT to give YOU the POWER to choose to do good; stop denying the facts:

    Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

    Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all [men], especially unto them who are of the household of faith.


    You deny the power of God, via the Holy Spirit if you do not agree with Paul, who taught the not only how we are saved by a free gift, but the responsibility that would come alongside IT, due to the fact that God gave you the power to do good.

    Unto him who knows to do good and does it not, it is SIN; and it is sin of unbeleif:

    Jesus:

    Luk 6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy [it]?

    It was the pharasee that denied it was illegal to do good. We must rightly define the law of Christ/faith working by love from the law of moses, that no one could do good under.


    Luk 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

    Luk 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

    Paul:

    1 Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

    1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

    1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

    James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.


    Hbr 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.




    If I were you, I would ask yourself why you believe a lie?

  11. #23
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18,210
    Thanks
    3,013
    Thanked 18,879 Times in 11,067 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147795
    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post

    If I were you, I would ask yourself why you believe a lie?
    Another classic stumper.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to SaulToPaul For Your Post:

    heir (May 12th, 2016)

  13. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    499
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    Crucified with Christ
    nailed to the cross
    born again
    etc.
    are phrases from the bible that are parroted way too often without really understanding their meaning
    I certainly agree with that, but the bible itself defines each one.

  14. #25
    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    12,559
    Thanks
    22,656
    Thanked 18,981 Times in 10,573 Posts

    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147694
    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    Not true..read Col 1, before you get to chapters 2, and 3.

    One must remain in the faith; have love perfected, and then he can never fall.


    Once love is perfected; and the christian is mature...they can never fall.

    Let's teach the truth..today...


    So....the scriptures I quoted are not true?


    Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance(past tense) of the saints in light.
    Col 1:13 He has delivered us(past tense) from the domain of darkness and transferred us(past tense) to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
    Col 1:14 in whom we have(present tense) redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to steko For Your Post:

    Captain (July 11th, 2016),Tambora (July 3rd, 2016)

  16. #26
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18,210
    Thanks
    3,013
    Thanked 18,879 Times in 11,067 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147795
    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    So....the scriptures I quoted are not true?


    Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance(past tense) of the saints in light.
    Col 1:13 He has delivered us(past tense) from the domain of darkness and transferred us(past tense) to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
    Col 1:14 in whom we have(present tense) redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
    You have to pass the GP probational period (which is general, obscure, subjective) before you can claim these good things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to SaulToPaul For Your Post:

    heir (May 12th, 2016)

  18. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    499
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    So....the scriptures I quoted are not true?


    Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance(past tense) of the saints in light.
    Col 1:13 He has delivered us(past tense) from the domain of darkness and transferred us(past tense) to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
    Col 1:14 in whom we have(present tense) redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
    Of course they are true...you need to read them in context of what you have been rescued from, and why He rescued you from it, and what He NOW expects your life to be....

    He did NOT rescue you from the power of sin/law of moses, so that you could live any way you choose..HE saved you so that you could do HIS will..and, walk in the SPIRIT.

    You are NOW to serve Him in that new way...faith working by love, and if you choose NOT TO, YOUR SALVATION IS GOOD FOR NOTHING, BECAUSE HE SAVED YOU FOR A PURPOSE.


    Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

    Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

    Do you understand what it means to serve in Newness of the Spirit?

    If not, then you are not yet crucified.

    Salvation is not a free gift to give you a license to sin..it is the free gift that sets you free from the 'letter of the law', in order to receive the Holy Spirit that enables you to LOVE.

    Do not deny the power of the gospel.

    It is unbelief...to deny the power of it.

  19. #28
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    18,210
    Thanks
    3,013
    Thanked 18,879 Times in 11,067 Posts

    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147795
    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    Do not deny the power of the gospel.
    Silly woman thinks the power of the gospel is about behavior.


    Here's the power,



    Ephesians 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

    Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,



    Maybe she will get saved and have the eyes of her understanding enlightened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to SaulToPaul For Your Post:

    heir (May 12th, 2016)

  21. #29
    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    12,559
    Thanks
    22,656
    Thanked 18,981 Times in 10,573 Posts

    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147694
    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post

    Do you understand what it means to serve in Newness of the Spirit?

    Yep.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to steko For Your Post:

    Captain (July 11th, 2016),Tambora (July 3rd, 2016)

  23. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    499
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Yep.
    Explain it then.

    So, everyone can see it if lines up with what the bible says about it.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us