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Thread: What is "Crucified with Christ"? AKA the infamous Meat and Milk seals debate

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    What is "Crucified with Christ"? AKA the infamous Meat and Milk seals debate

    Some confuse the doctrine of being "crucified with Christ" with being born again/initial salvation.

    I believe it is what occurs once you have made your calling and election SURE. In other words, once you have had your faith tested, and, you can no longer be tossed to or fro with every wind of doctrine.

    I would like to discuss this...issue.

    Anyone up for it?

    My main focus is on that all who are saved are born again, but not all who are born again, have learned the WILL of God, or purpose of God, for their salvation.

    In order to never fall, you must be crucified with Christ.

    That means, you must learn and grow in grace and in knowledge, until you KNOW and can discern good and evil.

    It is at this point that you have died to the law.

    You cannot immediately die to the law, upon initial salvation, because it takes having the holy spirit in order to get it done.

    We are saved/justified, without the law,(born again), and, then we must die to the law/be crucified with Jesus.

    Is anyone on this board with me?

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    Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

    At this point in time, Peter was born again, but he was not yet 'crucified with Christ', having not yet been confirmed in love...and out of fear, sinned against grace. Jesus Christ aims to finish in us, what He started/born again, moving on towards 'crucifixion'.

    Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

    If we are not bold enough in the gospel to always act in love, (perfect love), which is the same as being crucified with Christ, we are still born again, but a babe.


    Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.


    Barnabas, likewise was born again, (saved), but not yet 'crucified with Christ'.


    Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

    When Paul says, "uprightly", he is not saying they were not saved..just not yet in perfect love..matured love. Babes are not perfect in understanding, upon initial salvation.

    Gal 2:15 We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,


    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


    Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.


    Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

    Peter, and Barnabus, and anyone of us that is not yet 'crucified', with Christ, can make ourself a transgressor, by doing this. He cuts us off....but, if we repent, as did Peter, we learn maturity, and THEN, we can never fall..as even Peter grew to know of.

    Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


    Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


    The mature man.


    Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

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    There is no point in a Christian life where he has moved past the point of back sliding or falling, save when he has died.

    We are to be daily dying to ourselves, daily being conformed into the image of Christ, daily seeking God.

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    What is "crucified with Christ?"

    It's the death of the ego (what the NT calls the carnal self or carnal mind).

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    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Initial salvation? Oh you're full of fraud and deceit. How long will keep perverting the straight ways of the Lord?
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    For the record, it means you are identified with the Christ. You are immersed (Baptised) into him. And sealed by the Holy Spirit. It is about salvation, and not about gaining knowledge. But that evil rotten witch doctor graysviolence hates God as much as granite. How else do you explain her wretchedness in trying to pull people from the faith?
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    I was....me....myself.

    Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

    At the very moment of one's salvation, a believer died to the evil of the flesh, which is the sin nature and his life is now hidden with Christ in God.

    The old man was crucified with Him.

    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
    Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    For the record, it means you are identified with the Christ. You are immersed (Baptised) into him. And sealed by the Holy Spirit. It is about salvation, and not about gaining knowledge. But that evil rotten witch doctor graysviolence hates God as much as granite. How else do you explain her wretchedness in trying to pull people from the faith?
    Well, she hates your god.

    You have never been born again to know anything about it.

    LA

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    "Some confuse the doctrine of being "crucified with Christ" with being born again/initial salvation."-Daffy Duck-ette


    This bewitched one talking about "crucified with Christ," when she asserts you can become un-crucified?


    This bewitched one talking about "being born again," and yet this scribble?:


    "nowhere does the bible say you are sealed upon salvation...you add that thought to the verse in question...the maturation is the 'sealing'...(making your calling and election sure)...once saved always saved is a lie. once sealed/matured always sealed is not.This is the truth....I do NOT believe in osas...OSAS is true to a point...you are either born again, or you are not...there is no in between...."-GP

    "OSAS is true to a point" vs. "you are either born again, or you are not...there is no in between..."




    "The day of salvation and work of salvation is NOT a one time event; He MUST complete IN YOU what HE started...for you to be complete...bible days begin in the 'evening' for this spiritual significance. (while we were yet sinners, Christ saved us)...this is what proves the love of God to us.Most christians teach a false version of salvation..say all you do is get saved and that is it. ....no one even begins to be saved until they take the first step of surrendering, and it must continue, and we must die daily to our own will, so, your whole theory is based on a lie "-GP





    "Like I already told you, it is an ongoing event. Justification is ongoing."-GP




    "God's elect are all those whom remain in the faith/Just because it is the faith of Jesus, does not mean that we can treat His faith as not being able to be made void."-GP

    vs.


    "...my faith passed the test..."-GP


    Tell us, wicked witch of the South, how you can crucify yourself, and un-crucify yourself?


    Let me guess: MAD is heresey....MAD is man made apostacy.....get some milk...you teach lies....put away your men teachers...you follow the false teachings of me....I "HEAR JESUS".......

    1-800-BOZO

    Just shut up, and go back to your Catholic church, and drink some blood/wine, and or body/bread of this fake "Jesus" you worship, who is such an incompetent, and an impotent, like you, that he cannot preserve your salvation. And stuff your milk and meat, and go play patty cake, patty cake, with the kids, at the playground, and stuff your mouth with HoHo's and Twinkies. We are busy men.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    Some confuse the doctrine of being "crucified with Christ" with being born again/initial salvation.
    How many salvations or stages to salvation are there?

    I believe it is what occurs once you have made your calling and election SURE. In other words, once you have had your faith tested, and, you can no longer be tossed to or fro with every wind of doctrine.
    What if I feel that I'm sure, but then I stumble? Or if I'm sure, but then I realize I'm not? Does that mean I haven't been crucified with Him?


    I would like to discuss this...issue.

    Anyone up for it?


    My main focus is on that all who are saved are born again, but not all who are born again, have learned the WILL of God, or purpose of God, for their salvation.
    Okay, but that has nothing to do with being crucified with Him.

    In order to never fall, you must be crucified with Christ.



    That means, you must learn and grow in grace and in knowledge, until you KNOW and can discern good and evil.
    So, we have to work for it?

    It is at this point that you have died to the law. You cannot immediately die to the law, upon initial salvation, because it takes having the holy spirit in order to get it done.
    Romans 8:1-2. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." (Emphasis mine)

    Again, I have to work for it? I must grow in grace and knowledge before I am in Him, which is when I am dead to the law? There sure are lots of conditions to salvation...

    We are saved/justified, without the law,(born again), and, then we must die to the law/be crucified with Jesus.
    I didn't realize it was a 2 part or three part deal. Revelation 3:20. "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."


    Is anyone on this board with me?
    Not me. If we must earn it, or work for it, then we are hopeless.

    'There is no one righteous, there is no one good but God, there is no one who does good, etc...'
    Trust those that seek the truth, but doubt those that say they have found it.

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    GP:" nowhere does the bible say you are sealed upon salvation...you add that thought to the verse in question"

    GP: "Those whom are saved are saved because they love God...and, they love God because He first loved them."

    GP: "if you want salvation, you have to LOVE Him, with your whole heart"

    GP:"I know that you catholics are not preaching a different gospel than did Paul...."


    All on board? We do not like a trip to hell.
    Saint John W

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    LA sured offered up a good rebutal to Romans 6.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekel View Post
    There is no point in a Christian life where he has moved past the point of back sliding or falling, save when he has died.

    We are to be daily dying to ourselves, daily being conformed into the image of Christ, daily seeking God.
    Yes, I agree...my take is though that you begin this 'daily' dying to self, once you have learned the full will of God for your salvation, which is to be able as a mature man, to know the difference fully between good and evil:


    Hbr 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    Babes are not yet of 'full age', and we are all saved as a babe, and must grow in grace and in knowledge..we are born again as a babe, and put on maturity; which is the term 'being crucified with Christ'....in mho.
    ..and, it too is a daily walk, but it is a walk of assurance, where love has been perfected and you can no longer be tossed to and fro:

    As Paul taught..it is a process of having love perfected:


    Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


    Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    Eph 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;


    The mature man can never fall:

    2 Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


    2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

    2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

    2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

    2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


    2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damian View Post
    What is "crucified with Christ?"

    It's the death of the ego (what the NT calls the carnal self or carnal mind).
    True..the death of 'self seeking will', wherein you have learned to put off the old man.


    It is something we learn, not an event that takes place upon initial salvation..this is where some fail.
    ...in mho.

    Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

    Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


    Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.


    Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

    It is clear you do this after you receive the Holy Spirit, for it is the Holy Spirit that ENABLES you to do so.


    Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

    Col 3:10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

    Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.


    Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;


    Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.

    We must put the fruits in ACTION...if they lay dorment, we are good for nothing, and, He gave us the freewill to decide to quench the Holy Spirit or USE IT.

    Col 3:14 And above all these things [put on] charity, which is the bond of perfectness.


    Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

    This is why faith without works is dead...for God saved us to DO works..not that He saved us by our works.

    Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    He gave each of us the choice as to whether we walk in them or not.....some quench out the holy spirit; make love wax cold, and have become good for nothing, which is why HE spews such ones out of His mouth. Until they learn to NOT blaspheme the message, for part of the message is to USE salvation for what it was given to us for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    I was....me....myself.

    Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

    At the very moment of one's salvation, a believer died to the evil of the flesh, which is the sin nature and his life is now hidden with Christ in God.

    The old man was crucified with Him.

    Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
    Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
    Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
    This ^ and Gal 2:20

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