Public Schools are Sin!
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SOTK
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Lighthouse said:
Ummm...jujubee and I make their lunches. Teachers educate but only parents raise. I pay taxes and my taxes pay the teachers salaries. Teachers are not allowed to discipline unless you mean "talking to them". That type of "discipline" if you even want to call it that occurs by my children's aunts, uncles, grandparents, family friends, pastors, Christian leaders at my church, and other Christian friends also.
Okay, so the government doesn't feed your kids. But they feed other people's kids, don't they?SOTK said:
And though corporal punishment may no longer be allowed in public schools, sending them to the principal [or dean] is. And from ther they can be put in detention, suspended or even expelled. Then they have no education, unless you decide to homeschool at that time. And sometimes they can merely be kicked out of class for a period of time. Also, there is, in some schools, in school detention. In this case the students do not get the education they would otherwise get [which isn't much of an education in many cases], because they are not in class. In junior and senior high they can get ISD for something they did in one class, and then they miss all of their other classes for the day
As for your family talking to your kids about their misbehaving, I have no problem with some family members disciplining children, especially when it comes to grandparents, aunts or uncles, and maybe cousins who are old enough to be their parents. And I also think siblings who are mature enough to be in authority over their younger siblings should be allowed to discipline. But friends and church leaders? No. Why? Because it is not their place. If they are having a problem with your child, they should bring it to you.
And if you don't think your children are in effect being raised by their educators, think again. Education is part of raising, and children tend to beleive what their teachers teach them. That has an effect on how they turn out. And disciplining is part of raising as well, and as I showed above, schools do discipline the children...
shilohproject
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All good stuff, when properly applied, a legitimate function of government/society.Lighthouse said:
Do what? Are you saying it is good for schools to do these things?shilohproject said:
shilohproject
New member
Yep. BTW, in Houston, they still paddle.Lighthouse said:
There is seriously something wrong with you. Why do you think the government should do the things you're supposed to do?
shilohproject
New member
There is something wrong with me because I disagree with you? Meaningless comment.Lighthouse said:
I do what I'm supposed to do. The issue of, say, feeding kids at school is a telling one. If they are not being provided lunches by their parents, society has a vested interest, on many levels, in seeing that they get a decent meal.
If parents are not disiplining their children, society has a vested interest in doing it. Etc, etc.
In the case where the parents do their jobs, then schools don't have to. It is only in the instances that a need arises that an arm of society/government must respond in some way.
It is, however, one of those gross overstatements to characterize this as some Big Brother type of government intervention. School boards are local and very open, even in a bid district like Houston's.
shilohproject said:
It's not because you disagree with me, it's that you think the government has the right to do what you should be doing, and even more disturbing is the fact that you truly think they should be doing it. It's a sad state of affairs.
If you were doing what you were supposed to do then the government wouldn't be doing any of it. It's not their job, it's yours.
This statement shows the heart of the problem, and you can't even see it.
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it." Parents should do their jobs when their children when they are young. If they don't then the government should do what needs to be done, in some instances, when they are adults, but not before then. Unless they child commits a crime, punishable by law... And the government should never be responsible for feeding someone, unless they are being held on criminal charges. It is the churches job to feed the needy, and to take care of orphans and widows. Even if the government needs to take away a child from their parents, the church should be willing to take in the child. They couldn't do a worse job than the government does with such children.
Public schools should not exist, period. The government should not even have the right to raise children, especially when those children have parents.
`Love.
New member
SOTK said:
Well, I'm talking about the principle, rather than the exact situation. Example: Would you send a child to an evolution seminar, knowing the child doesn't have the proper tools to defend his stand? That's the principle. That's what sending a seven year old to public school is. Life will be full of trials, that will eventually have to be gotten over, just don't overload your little children with them!!!
It's pure hypocrisy to deafen a child's ears to things like cursing or sex while have a teacher and a peer group drill evolution and homosexuality into thier heads. You might as well switch on the playboy channel, hand your child a hustler and send them off to a orgy. As you said, there can be temptations within any peer group.
\SOTK said:
Yes, it absolutely is! So, why not partake in another great gift from God? Like schooling your own kids?
SOTK said:
Can you give me an example of one that isn't? If the government can arrange the money for public schooling, they could arrange it to go to the home schooling of a child.
No building costs, employee costs, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
(With all that money, most schools still have to pass laws to get more money, JUST TO HAVE AIR CONDITIONERS!!)
SOTK said:
I don't know your children, but I do know a family with a similar outlook as you seem to have. The mother and father are both Christian. They try as best they can to teach their same values and beliefs to their children. I have never once seen them hesitate with their beliefs. I don't know of the others, but their oldest child is now questioning the validity of the bible in favor of an evolution-included Christian faith. To my knowledge, he has not told his parents of his thoughts, because he knows they would not agree. When I disagree with someone putting their children in public school, it isn't because I'm trying to prove some point. It's because seeing things like that makes me genuinely sad.
As I stated, I don't believe public schooling is a sin, and I don't think I can in any way decide if you should public school your children or not. If your situation is fine, then I am happy for you. However, I hope to God that you know your situation is fine. Our children are the next generation and gifts from God. We shouldn't take chances with them.
SOTK
New member
Lighthouse said:
Lighthouse,
You seem to be speaking from experience. In other words, your experience. I have watched several older Christian parents raise their kids in the Lord while sending them to the public school. None of them are murderers, agnostics, pagans, or atheists. None of them are evil. My Senior Pastor's eldest child graduated from high school last year and is entering seminary. He doesn't seem to be too affected by the "evil raising" of the public school system.
I don't recall how you were raised, Lighthouse. Were you brought up in the Lord? If you weren't or if it was a weak instruction, I can see how you feel that you can be "raised" by your teachers.
Yes, of course discipline should be handled by the parents, but, in my opinion, you are being ridiculous if you believe parents should be the only people to discipline your children. For example, if you have kids some day and decide to send them to a Christian fellowship camp during the summer for a week or so, what are you gonna do? Come hold their hand at camp the entire time? I'm sure you won't. Because you won't, your kids will be under the supervision and direction of other adults. If they make an error, don't you think they should be immediatley disciplined?
1] I never said it was evil.SOTK said:
Now, I am not a murderer, either. And I have friends who went to public schools who are not these things. But my best friend did end up using drugs, as did a couple of my other friends. And only one of them was not raised in the church. The one who wasn't became a Christian and straightened up his life. He then returned to his ways after some things happened, because he was not taught how to trust in the Lord. But, since he was not raised in the church, his example is moot.
Now, very few of my Christian friends [raised in church] who were in public schools are still virgins. And I don't consider myself one, even though I've never had intercourse, because of things I've done that I shouldn't have.
One of those friends is swayed quite easily by others, even those who are not Christians. He doesn't really know what to believe anymore, though his parents are still both very strong Christians and active in their pursuit of God. As are some other members of his family. However, his youngest brother started drinking when he was under age, and continues to do so, getting drunk every time. He does this with his best friend, who was also raised in the church. And I also don't think either of them are virgins.
One of my friends was raised by a Catholic mother and a father who didn't go to church. Much of his family, on his mother's side, are Catholic. His next door neighbor, who babysat him took him to her church [Wesleyan], and he decided early on that he would rather be a Protestant than a Catholic. He went to public school and committed sexual acts with most of his girlfriends. And "went all the way" before he was married. And when he did get married he cheated on his wife, who also cheated on him. She was raised in church, and went to public school. They ended up divorced, and she continued to have sex with various other people. She did the same before they even started dating. They are both now remarried, and each had sex with their current spouses before marriage. And he had sex with various other women before he met his current wife. Also, he has had menage a trois with both wives.
I'll stop there.
I started going to church at the age of three. I believed it then, and have never stopped believing it. So it was obviously not weak. But my education has affected how I've turned out. And I was disciplined in school, which is a part of being raised.
How old do you expect they would be? I would not send young children away like that. I would have to give it some serious thought with older children, and am still not sure I would allow it if they were teens. However, if I did, I would hope they would be old enough to know to behave themselves. Why? Because I would have done my job when they were younger.
shilohproject
New member
I don't have the time or money to raise all the children in this country who have poor parenting, if any, and who need to be fed. I take care of mine. We are not talking about my chldren here, Lighthouse, we're talking about those in need.Lighthouse said:
The statement expresses the heart of the problem as I see it.
So you'd just wait until they are beyond saving socially and lock them up. I feel the love now!
Finally your welfare program kicks in!
It is our collective interest as a society.
Fortunately your opinion is in the tiny minority. "Government," as you like to say (because it sounds so foreboding and scary?) has a vested interest in caring for children who are in need, in all of the areas of education, discipline and basic needs.
shilohproject said:
The church should be helping those in need, not the government. That is God's desire.
It expresses the heart of the problem with your view, is what it does. And you still can't see the problem. That's sad.
Locke them up? No! Never! Prison was never in God's plan. Discipline and punishment are. And those deserving of such should receive such.
And no one is beyond saving. Ever.
Welfare?! Welfare?! Are you nuts?! I would never support welfare!
Then the people should do something about it, instead of pawning it off on the government! Who, by the way, missapropriate our taxes in their spending on the needy. Many of those on these government programs are not as needy as they lead the government to believe, and the government knows this, yet they do nothing to squelch the problem. Nor do they give these people what they actually need. No one on these programs gets enough money to even live on their own, even if they have kids. And many of them, one of my roommates included, doesn't even take care of her kid, she lets her mom do it, and she still gets money for the kid, and then spends it on herself [including her drug habit]. She can't even pay her part of the rent, because she spends all the money on herself. And even if she did pay her part of the rent, she still doesn't make enough monsey to pay all of it, so she has to have roommates. Of course, if she would go get a job, she might have enough money to live on her own, unless she were to get kicked off of welfare since she was actually working. But, with the lack of education she has she wouldn't get a good enough job to support herself without welfare, let alone her kid. Which is another problem with this society. And the goevernment would probably kick her off of welfare if she got a job, and they fouond out about it.
I also have a friend who is on disability, and he needs to be on it, and he has to rely on his dad so that he can live on his own, and he just turned 28.
1] I say government, because it is the government. And there is nothing foreboding or scary about the government.
2] It's none of the governement's business, period.
shilohproject
New member
It is if the people say it is.Lighthouse said:
Shalom
Member
Lighthouse -- I agree with you that it is not the governments job to raise, feed, ect ect our children. My two children go to a private Christian school because I share this veiw also.
But what about those that cannot afford private schools or have to hold a job and cannot homeschool? What would you do with them? I know a friends sister that is a single mom. The dad is a loser "meth head" and a registered sexual offender who is no where to be found for any parenting help for the three boys they have. She is not the smartest person herself but she at least feeds them, loves them, and clothes them as best as she can given her monetary situation. Sadley the public school system is the only chance for an education those boys have realistically. We all know what we would do in a perfect world, but what about these kids and the others like them?
I think it would be great if all the public schools became private, and then maybe some kind of a system went into palce for the kids like the above ones allowed them to attend those schools. I dont know....what your thoughts lighthouse?
But what about those that cannot afford private schools or have to hold a job and cannot homeschool? What would you do with them? I know a friends sister that is a single mom. The dad is a loser "meth head" and a registered sexual offender who is no where to be found for any parenting help for the three boys they have. She is not the smartest person herself but she at least feeds them, loves them, and clothes them as best as she can given her monetary situation. Sadley the public school system is the only chance for an education those boys have realistically. We all know what we would do in a perfect world, but what about these kids and the others like them?
I think it would be great if all the public schools became private, and then maybe some kind of a system went into palce for the kids like the above ones allowed them to attend those schools. I dont know....what your thoughts lighthouse?
shilohproject
New member
Why feed the prisoner, then?Lighthouse said:
shilohproject said:
The bottom line is that it shouldn't be their job. And God doesn't want it to be their job. As Christians we should be in tune with God's design, and not with man's. Especially when men are generally wicked, and ultimately unrighteous.