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Thread: Proof from the Bible that God is In Time

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    Quote Originally Posted by chatmaggot View Post
    Do you believe that God sees all of history (past, present, and future) at the same time because God is "outside" of time?
    Yep, I believe that God has seen every possibility, already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    God does not change
    There is some scripture that appears to support that view:


    1. Malachi 3:6 says blatantly, "For I am the LORD, I change not".

    2. Isaiah 41:4 says that God called forth the generations "from the beginning".

    3. James 1:17 may indicate that God does not change ("no variation or shadow of turning").

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulos View Post
    There is some scripture that appears to support that view:


    1. Malachi 3:6 says blatantly, "For I am the LORD, I change not".

    2. Isaiah 41:4 says that God called forth the generations "from the beginning".

    3. James 1:17 may indicate that God does not change ("no variation or shadow of turning").
    The context of Malachi will give you a clue.

    God became a man. That is a change, unless you believe that God was always a man, which makes you a Mormon.

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    Hi Nang,
    Thank you for reading my post.

    You wrote:
    I would not agree that the "image" of which you speak was created, for the definition of God is uncreate in all ways.
    I'm not sure what you mean by the definition of God is uncreate... but I think I disagree.

    You wrote:
    But indeed, God decreed and promised a Seed who would incarnate as Mediator between God and man (Genesis 3:15), coming in the image of the Father, so we can know that Jesus Christ, as the only begotten Son of God, was known in the heart and mind of God as the Son of Man, before the foundations of the world.
    Yes... and you have written a great truth. The Son would come in the IMAGE of the Father. Is it any wonder that Jesus said: "When you have SEEN ME, you have SEEN the Father."

    That's because God already had an IMAGE... and he formed Adam a body after His own image and likeness ... and He gave the promised ONE a body after His own image and likeness as well. Colossians 1:14,15 KJV.

    You wrote:
    How to describe this eternal existence is difficult for God being spirit in essence, and not flesh and blood, means that His reality is so different than what we experience in time, that there are no words to explain these marvelous truths.
    Well the best we can describe the invisible spirit of God is with words like: infinite, eternal, omni-present, life, truth, a creator, etc. I do believe that the ONE spiritual God is outside of time. That's why understanding that He created a bodily form is so key to understanding how He could enter time. It seems from scripture that this original bodily form was super-natural- not of flesh and blood. Exodus 24 calls IT a body of heaven.

    You wrote:
    Paul said this, when he was carried by the Spirit into the third heaven, and witnessed paradise and heard "inexpressible words which it is not lawful for men to utter." II Corinthians 12:1-4
    Yes... While ALL things are IN GOD ... yet he was able to literally enter the creation as well. Now doesn't it make sense when Jesus said: I am IN the Father and (yet) He is IN me.

    You wrote:
    So, as interesting as this subject is as to the pre-incarnate Christ, we must not go further what scripture has revealed . . . and I agree with you that God indeed revealed Jesus in theophanies prior to His incarnation as Savior. . . and we have been told Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. One with Father and Holy Spirit, uncreate and equal in power and glory.
    Yes, we know about the promised "SEED of Woman" (Genesis 3) and about the "exceeding great reward" promised to Abraham. (Genesis 15:1 KJV)

    And we know that God told God to arise, judge the world and inherit the nations (Ps 82:8KJV)

    We know that when our Lord Jesus, who was God come as the Savior (John 1:1; Isaiah 43:11KJV), finally appeared upon earth with flesh that he said: When you have seen me - you have seen the Father.

    Well, the same thing perhaps could have been said about the appearing of the LORD God in the OT. When one had seen the Father LORD, then they had seen the image of the Savior Lord ... It is just that God's image was for the first time ever seen in flesh as our Lord Jesus... which no man had ever seen. That is why John 1:18 KJV says this:
    "No one at any time hath seen God, the only begotten son ... he (John the B.) has revealed Him. "

    We also know this is the truth - Isaiah 43:11 KJV.

    Is it any wonder that our Lord Jesus said:
    "The Father and I are ONE."

    You wrote:
    The Son of God added nothing to His Being by coming in human flesh; but rather manifested in time, the purpose, terms, and ramifications of the everlasting Covenant of Redemption, established within the Godhead prior to time and creation.
    I agree with you.

    You wrote:
    Revelation is not change. It is manifestation of what IS.
    I also believe that manifestation is important ... and the answer to "of WHAT" IS - The manifestation of God's literal created image of presence that God used.

    You wrote:
    Which means, all the elect sons of God also were known by God in His heart and mind, as surely as Jesus Christ was known by God, prior to creation! We were foreknown and prepared to share in the glory of the everlasting kingdom with Christ. (Proverbs 8:12-31) This is remarkable but hard to express!
    It seems that you and I are thinking about similar possibilities.

    You wrote:
    Jesus Christ, being one with the Father, is I AM. Whether in time, or in the eternal realms. And His spiritual children are known and found in Him; redeemed in time and saved for everlasting life and glory in His eternal kingdom.

    These are such wonderful truths . . . why let others bog us down with their attempts to humanize and limit the attributes and sovereign purposes of our Lord from Heaven?
    Do you realize what you just wrote???
    You have identified that you acknowledge the existence of "The LORD from Heaven."
    So, who is the LORD ?
    The LORD is the ONE God when he manifested His appearance unto the eyes of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Moses. (Exodus 3:6 KJV; Exodus 6:3 KJV)

    And what is Heaven?
    It is a realm that God created ... It was first called the firmament. You read about it in Genesis 1.

    You just wrote that - the God, who was able to appear to the patriarchs, was also the Lord that was in Heaven.

    Is it any wonder that Exodus 24:9,10,11,12 KJV called God's presence, which they SAW - The BODY OF HEAVEN in His clearness?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps82 View Post
    Just one quick comment at this time. In Colossians 1:15 there is a noun - IMAGE and the antecedent of that noun is - (the firstborn of ALL CREATURES.) The antecedent tells us that the IMAGE belonging to God was the first of all creatures. A creature is something that is CREATED.

    Case closed.
    Jesus Christ, being the Person ordained to come in the image of God, remains uncreate. . . even while born of woman, He was conceived by the Spirit of God, alone.

    This distinction must be maintained, IMO.

    He is the first-born (spiritually resurrected) of all elect and redeemed creatures, in the bodily form of man, but only because He innately also possessed the power and essence (nature) of uncreate God.

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps82 View Post

    And what is Heaven?
    It is a realm that God created ... It was first called the firmament. You read about it in Genesis 1.
    Holy Scripture teaches there are 3 heavens:

    Two created.

    One being the eternal (thus uncreated) realm of God.

    The first heaven, is the created atmosphere and sky that is visible to man, in which creatures fly.

    The second heaven, is outer space, which God created to give guiding lights to mankind, in order to navigate earth and sea.

    The third heaven, is the realm of God's Being. And since this realm is eternal, it is divine, and therefore, is not created, but rather is the everlasting spiritual description of where God IS, and where He reigns and rules in full glory, forever and ever.

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    hI Nang,
    You explained:
    Jesus Christ, being the Person ordained to come in the image of God, remains uncreate. . . even while born of woman, He was conceived by the Spirit of God, alone.
    I agree that our Lord Jesus came straight from God ... but it was required for some reason that he enter this world through the natural door... called a woman's womb. There must have been a reason for that ... but the Bible does not make that reason clear. I would speculate that it had something to do with being born with flesh or a mortal person so that the curse of sin and death could be upon him...so that he could over it for man's sake.

    You wrote:
    He is the first-born (spiritually resurrected) of all elect and redeemed creatures, in the bodily form of man, but only because He innately also possessed the power and essence (nature) of uncreate God.
    I agree that he became the first born of many who would follow his example to enter the kingdom of God... yet we enter the kingdom in two ways ... our invisible spiritual nature and with a literal glorified visible image.

    Yet, this truth does not rule out that the IMAGE of God was there before the world was. It was first mentioned in Genesis 1:26,27 KJV. It is just that people have been told not to believe what they read in scripture regarding the image. An image is something to be seen. Is it any wonder that God created eyes for beholding IT?

    I love the event when our Lord Jesus stooped down and picked up dirt and added his divine spittle to the ground and formed functioning eyeballs for the man that had been blind since birth. It reminds me of what The LORD did in Genesis 2 ...who formed every part of the visible body for Adam... including his eyeballs... proving that He (Our Lord) was the creator of Genesis 2... and 1 ... etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky. View Post
    Yep, I believe that God has seen every possibility, already.
    But not actualities?


  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Lighthouse For Your Post:

    Tambora (July 2nd, 2016)

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    Nang,
    It is late and I'm tired... so good night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps82 View Post
    hI Nang,
    You explained:


    I agree that our Lord Jesus came straight from God ... but it was required for some reason that he enter this world through the natural door... called a woman's womb. There must have been a reason for that ... but the Bible does not make that reason clear. I would speculate that it had something to do with being born with flesh or a mortal person so that the curse of sin and death could be upon him...so that he could over it for man's sake.

    Well, sure . . . that is the gospel message.

    The Lord from heaven, lowered Himself to come in human form, in order to mediate reconciliation between infinite God and finite men, to build a heavenly Kingdom!

    "Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death; that is, the devil." Hebrews 2:14

    You wrote:



    Yet, this truth does not rule out that the IMAGE of God was there before the world was. It was first mentioned in Genesis 1:26,27 KJV.
    Yes. But I am not sure it is wise to call this "image" of God, a created "it."

    The "image" of God is solely found in uncreate Jesus Christ, and those created in His image. It is the self-concept of uncreated God of His Person, that has been shared with His creation of mankind.

    Your thoughts are inspirational, but I caution you not to become too mystical, on this subject.

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    But not actualities?
    God doesn't need your or my "actualities" to be in control. What we do in time doesn't affect His eternality. What He does in our time doesn't change His eternality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky. View Post
    God doesn't need your or my "actualities" to be in control. What we do in time doesn't affect His eternality.
    Exactly.

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost View Post
    Bob's key point that brings a deathblow to all those who pervert the truth, and also what I have pointed out in the past, is that the reason we know with certainty that God is not outside of time is that Jesus became a man. Jesus currently has the nail scars in his hands. He did not have the nail scars in His hands before the incarnation. This was a change that God experienced in our age, and is a reality in the ages to come, that was not a reality for God in eternity past.
    No. Same fail, different post correction: God is "relational to, unconstrained by" His creation. It is already so obvious that you are the one perverting truth to the rest of us. How can John be seeing a literal half an hour in heaven in the future if it is a literal half an hour?
    How can you assign time to an eternal nonbeginning unless you vote that God has a creation date too. Essentially, denying that God is apart from time, is a god who is a created being. There is no logical way around that fact, when pressed. You cannot have a God who is constrained to time. There is no possible way you can mean "God" when such is asserted.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost View Post
    God became a man. That is a change, unless you believe that God was always a man, which makes you a Mormon.
    Does Jesus change?

    Hebrews 13:8
    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost View Post
    Jesus has a body now. Jesus did not have body then. God experiences time. Case closed.
    Yep. Now pay attention, please: Relational to, unconstrained by. He can go through time as you and I, but His movements are "inside" His creation. He has time insomuch as He relates to us but 1) it is impossible for Him to be unidirectional only 2) If you agree He has no beginning and is God very God, then you admit to # 1 whether you see the logical dots or not. You'd be essentially saying "nuh-uh" but then saying He is God, your "nuh-uh" is negated (double-negative). To say He is God (no beginning) is to say He is beyond time as we know it, regardless if you think otherwise. Everybody but apparently the few hundred open theists understands this.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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