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Thread: Proof from the Bible that God is In Time

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainee View Post
    ...But it may have been something that He had in mind from before time. What will it prove if He planned it from before time that He would participate in time, even as to His humanity?
    I think one of points Bob Enyart is trying to make with this article is for people to understand the impossibility of statements like "before time".

    There is no such thing as "before time". If time was created...then there was time before the creation of time.

    It appears that by saying God is "in time", Bob is trying to point out that God experiences events sequentially. God cannot go back in time because the past does not exist. God cannot go to the future because the future is not a place to go.

    We often think of "Heaven" as the place/dimension in which God dwells. The Bible states that "...there was silence in heaven for about half an hour." This contradicts the cliche that there is no time in Heaven.
    fidelis usque ad mortem

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    Quote Originally Posted by chatmaggot View Post
    It appears that by saying God is "in time", Bob is trying to point out that God experiences events sequentially. God cannot go back in time because the past does not exist. God cannot go to the future because the future is not a place to go.
    Why would God need to go back in time?

    If God doesn't know the future than how can He be all knowing? He doesn't need to go there in order to know it. If we as Christians believe that God is all knowing and all powerful then He HAS to know the future. Do you think the future is going to take Him by surprise?

    Isaiah 46:10

    10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
    And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
    Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
    And I will do all My pleasure

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    Time is a function of the sun, moon, and stars. Since God created those things he is definitely outside them....for they could not exist without his creative capability.

    No scripture needed.

    Close thread.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Time is a function of the sun, moon, and stars. Since God created those things he is definitely outside them....for they could not exist without his creative capability.

    No scripture needed.

    Close thread.
    We measure time with the Sun, however, time has nothing to do with this per se... Time is a measure of changes. We perceive time passing with changes, The earth keeps spinning, so we mesure time with it.

    Are you saying God is completely outside of change?

    "The Word Became flesh..." John 1:14 <<< An actual event of God.

    There was a "before The Word became flesh" and an "after The Word became flesh"

    It would be silly to say that God is outside of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoofadoo View Post
    We measure time with the Sun, however, time has nothing to do with this per se... Time is a measure of changes. We perceive time passing with changes, The earth keeps spinning, so we mesure time with it.

    Are you saying God is completely outside of change?

    "The Word Became flesh..." John 1:14 <<< An actual event of God.

    There was a "before The Word became flesh" and an "after The Word became flesh"

    It would be silly to say that God is outside of time.
    No, what would be silly is not understanding the relationship between things that are made and the one who made them.

    Proof by analogy.

    Let's say you have some creative capability. You are a potter. You gather clay....place it on your wheel and create a coffecup.

    Do you now exist in the coffeecup? Is your existence now dependent upon the existence of the coffeecup? Do you not have the power to destroy the coffeecup and yet exist?

    Come on.

    God created the universe. The universe is our measurement of time. God exists outside both space and time.

    God is timeless, infinite, eternal...according to the Bible. If this is so, then how can he be in time? Time is not eternal....God is. You're making absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    You're confusing two points. Can God change? Does he exist in time. God fills time and he can do whatever he wants.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    No, what would be silly is not understanding the relationship between things that are made and the one who made them.

    Proof by analogy.

    Let's say you have some creative capability. You are a potter. You gather clay....place it on your wheel and create a coffecup.

    Do you now exist in the coffeecup? Is your existence now dependent upon the existence of the coffeecup? Do you not have the power to destroy the coffeecup and yet exist?

    Come on.

    God created the universe. The universe is our measurement of time. God exists outside both space and time.

    God is timeless, infinite, eternal...according to the Bible. If this is so, then how can he be in time? Time is not eternal....God is. You're making absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    You're confusing two points. Can God change? Does he exist in time. God fills time and he can do whatever he wants.
    Apparently you did not read the OP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post



    God did many things before creation
    So you theorize, but the answer is, no.

    The definition of God is "I AM."

    Not "I DO," or "I DID."


    The creation (all things material) manifest God's eternal will and purposes. His creatures are born into this material world, which is time-limited (temporal).

    God is eternal; thus He cannot be limited to the creation of time, for any purpose or reason.

    Those who attempt to incorporate Almighty God into a time-frame, simply reveal their humanistic philosophy, which is far from faith-centered adherence to the revelation and Word of God.

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by chatmaggot View Post
    If time was created...then there was time before the creation of time.
    This is illogical and false.

    It appears that by saying God is "in time", Bob is trying to point out that God experiences events sequentially.
    Bob is trying to convince others that God is like Bob.

    Bob insults Almighty and Eternal God by attempting to bring God down to his level.

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    This is illogical and false.
    Slow down, he didn't state it as truth, but rather to refute a false assumption

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoofadoo View Post
    Apparently you did not read the OP
    I grazed it. I'm responding to the statement that God is in time. He is. He is because he wants to be. He is not dependent on time and exists outside both space and time.

    If that's not consistent with the thought of the OP. My apologies.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoofadoo View Post
    Slow down, he didn't state it as truth, but rather to refute a false assumption

    Huh?

    How does one refute a false assumption, except by which one believes is truth?

    Bob Enyart teaches falsely on this subject, for his beliefs about Creator God are whacked out!

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Hello Knight, chrysostom, and everybody ...

    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    God is in time?
    I wonder what that means
    time is just a means of keeping track of change
    and
    it only applies to us as far as we know
    God is in time due to his having chosen to have a relationship with the things he created. God chose to set a process in motion and time began.

    One might say that HE entered time when he began to create at a point he initiated and which HE called - "In the beginning."

    Now, this starting point began before the world was ... For our Lord Jesus Christ tells us that he, being the WORD of God, had existed WITH God and shared his glory before the world was and took part in the creation process of everything.

    I agree with you that the visible Lord Jesus, the Christ, showed up at a specific time ...but the invisible divine essence called The WORD existed before time the world was.

    Time relates to the creation, but God relates to his creation and therefore entered time. Jesus told us that the hitherto the Father worked ... but that he (in his day) also worked. This shows us that God has established a time table ... and when "the times are fulfilled," then HE participates in the next stage by accomplishing certain things. I'm sure everyone is familiar with this phrase: "When the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled."

    Just how an invisible spiritual infinite, eternal, omni-present, omni-everything God was able to step into a finite creation that moves through stages called TIME is what is interesting.

    It all began when God created an image, which he would use to manifest his presence in a literal concrete finite manner within his creation. That image is first mentioned in Gen.1:26,27... and it is also mentioned in Colossians 1:15 KJV

    quote: (Lord Jesus) who is the IMAGE of the invisible God, the first born of every creature.

    Grammatically speaking "IMAGE" is a noun... and the phrase "the first born of every creature" is the antecedent of that noun.

    IOW, the IMAGE belonging to God was the first born of EVERY CREATURE.
    IOW, God's IMAGE came before any other creature was formed.

    We know that His IMAGE already existed before God formed a body for Adam ... because God made Adam visible form after HIS OWN IMAGE and likeness.

    God entered time when he made the way for his appearing within his own creation. God appeared as the glory of the divine LORD Father in OT times ... and again appeared in NT times with a lesser glory of flesh as the divine Lord Jesus, the Son.

    Understanding how the IMAGE of God is a created visible presence personally used by God within the creation should give you a whole new revelation when you read this phrase: "Know that I am in the Father and the Father is in me.

    IOW, the invisible God was able to have all things existing IN HIM ... while he was also able simultaneously be WITHin his own creation.

    Our Lord Jesus was the infinite invisible God appearing on earth - aka Emmanuel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Huh?

    How does one refute a false assumption, except by which one believes is truth?

    Bob Enyart teaches falsely on this subject, for his beliefs about Creator God are whacked out!

    Nang
    eh, its late and my brain hurts from thinking about time... I understand your point now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    I grazed it. I'm responding to the statement that God is in time. He is. He is because he wants to be. He is not dependent on time and exists outside both space and time.

    If that's not consistent with the thought of the OP. My apologies.
    No reason to apologize. You apprehended the OP. The first sentence said it all:



    "Here is a biblical PROOF that GOD IS IN TIME and experiences change in sequence:"

    God does not change, because of any of His creation, for God is immutable. Any teaching that theorizes differently is just plain wrong.

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Enyart View Post
    the opening post explains...that time doesn't only apply to us but also to God
    Time is relative. Do you believe that God is relative or absolute?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Enyart View Post
    For example, were you surprised that all those "timelessness" phrases are from pagan Greek philosophy whereas all the phrases showing extended, unending time were from the Bible?
    Colossians 2:8-9 does caution us to be careful, but I don't think Paul meant for us to discount "pagan Greek philosophy" entirely. I've posted some evidence that the New Testament itself reflects thoughts and ideas that undoubtedly originated with, or were influenced by, pagan Greek philosophy. Rather than copy-and-paste those posts, here are some links:

    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...to#post2383251

    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...to#post2383508

    Here are a couple of links to some very insightful articles with additional information regarding the influence of Plato and other Greek philosophers and poets on Paul. The first article explains how Paul drew from Plato's philosophy "when he described the church as Christ's body, the gifts of the Spirit, ecstatic utterances in worship, putting on righteousness as a garment, conscience as a guide, and love as the greatest of Christian virtues":

    Saint Paul's Homage to Plato, by F.F. Powell

    "Plato, Philo, and Paul: The Influence of Platonic Thought on Paul's Theosophy", by Jim Chapman

    On a lighter note, this brief article explains why Paul wrote in 1 Cor 11:14 that it is "shameful" for a man to have long hair:

    "Paul: female hair too sexy to go unveiled", by John Dart

    As I think you'll agree, the Greek influence was fairly considerable.

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