The Wild Wild "West"!
- Thread starter Sozo
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Agape4Robin
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:wave2: Welcome!
Now repent...............:Clete:
Now repent...............:Clete:
Jimmy West
New member
OK, Sozo, what is it that lead you to the decision that I was or am not saved?
Give us an example, for clarification, Jimmy. Are you referring to something like a supernatural 'word of knowledge or wisdom' or are you referring to illumination from the Spirit to understand His inspired revelation in Scripture. As written, your statement sounds suspect.
Do you affirm the Deity and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith alone in His person and finished work?
Do you affirm the Deity and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and salvation by grace through faith alone in His person and finished work?
You don't even affirm salvation by grace.godrulz said:
Lighthouse said:
I have affirmed salvation by grace alone dozens of times (Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:5 "...He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy...rebirth..."; Rom. 4; 5). Your misunderstanding of my partially developed sanctification views makes you think otherwise. :readthis: I even go a step beyond that and state that the Mid-Acts idea of faith + works is also wrong.
As an Open Theist (with Wesleyan-Arminian roots), you should know that I reject Calvinism in the area of perseverance of the saints without denying the great Reformational truths of salvation by grace through faith apart from works or self-righteousness.
But you don't believe that grace keeps people saved, no matter what, do you?
Lighthouse said:
I do not believe in Calvinism's oxymoron of irresistible grace. Just as the grace and ministry of the Spirit can be resisted before conversion (not everyone comes to Christ despite the convincing and convicting ministry of the Spirit), so the keeping grace of the Spirit can be resisted. This is attested to by the passages that warn about the possibility of apostasy or falling away. A relational vs metaphysical understanding of salvation does not support OSAS. Grace does keep us saved. Works do not keep us anymore than works saved us. However, grace and love can be resisted and man can change his mind and will before or after salvation. Eternal life is in the Son. If one is not in the Son or no longer in the Son, they do not have eternal life (I John= conditional vs unconditional eternal security...believers are secure!, but a believer can revert to unbelief and condemnation).
Do not confuse issues about justification/sanctification/glorification with the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints or Christian living (love for God will bring forth fruits of loving obedience...look up all the uses of obedience in NT books, including Pauline writings).
Jimmy West
New member
godrulz said:
Absolutely!
Sozo
New member
godrulz said:
godrulz... From God's vantage point, it is not enough to just say you believe something. It matters what is truly in the heart, and what is truly in the heart is revealed in what a person says, and therefore you can know what they truly believe.
When someone says that they are "saved by grace", it must be known what meaning they pour into the words "saved" and "grace".
You cannot say "I am saved by grace through faith", and also say I am not saved if I do this or that. It destroys the meanings of the words grace, faith, and saved, and that tells you that the person did not believe in the first place.
Jimmy West
New member
Sozo said:
It is written that issues of the spirit are foolishness to those who are carnal:
1 Corinthians 2
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are
foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
You are still on milk and have not yet grown into solid food:
1 Corinthians 3
1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal,
even as unto babes in Christ.
2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear
it, neither yet now are ye able.
3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and
divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
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