Homeschooling vs. Public Schooling

No Worries said:

To say that you have the same integration with your peers as someone who goes to school is just wrong.

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DreadHelm did address this is the opening post. Did you read it? Any comments?

With hindsight (something you don't have DreadHelm), you are missing out.

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You can only speak from personal experience. All you can say is if schooling (whichever type you had) was good or bad for you. You can't say that DreadHelm is missing out.

kmoney said:

DreadHelm did address this is the opening post. Did you read it? Any comments?

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He said,

And I said

"To say that you have the same integration with your peers as someone who goes to school is just wrong. With hindsight (something you don't have DreadHelm), you are missing out."

Which is valid. No matter how much he claims to integrate with others, the public schooled kids do more. He socialises at the church etc....so do the public school kids on top of what they do. The negative effects of bullying and peer pressure? Its all there in the real world too. Best learn to deal with it graually rather than in one big confrontation with the real world when homeschooling's finished.

Its when BB said, "Dread didn't have to worry about meeting drug dealers in the hallway." like the solution is to deal with the problem by taking the KIDS out of the school. Now that is a liberal attitude. Deal with the problem by taking the dealers out of the school and teaching the kids about drugs and their effects. An important part of growing up is learning about working within a group. OEJ doesn't seem to think that kids talk when lining up, eating food or in the classroom, going to and from school. You know what they dont just talk, but they joke and fight, rip on one another and make out. I'm guessing OEJ must have been homeschooled as well because he seems oblivious to this.

You can only speak from personal experience. All you can say is if schooling (whichever type you had) was good or bad for you. You can't say that DreadHelm is missing out.

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Sure I can when I spot his behaviour. And when I talk from experience from other homeschooled kids. I can quite clearly say that DH is missing out on interacting with his peers. Some might say he is a nice kid, and I wish him all the best, but sorry if he carried that attitude in school he'd be torn apart by the other kids. Church kids might not do it, nor might the debating team but not many schools are made up of just church kids and debating team kids, there usually a few other sorts too.

Look at how he deals with confrontation by calling names, same as BB and a few others. He's learning from his peers, but his peers are here are not his own age. He calls himself homophobic and fanatical. Yet he is still a child. He's not made up his own mind, he's too young, its been made up for him. And whats more he has nothing to counteract it. You want to call yourself Christian....go and learn the world's religions first and then at the end of it decide if you're a Christian. Want to call yourself homophobic, go and be a heterosexual and then meet some gay people, then call yourself a homophobe. Want to say you hate certain types of people....go and travel the world and meet all types of people.

Want to say you are socially adept, go and interact with all aspects of society....not just the parts that have been revealed to you. As it is you're being sheltered.

No Worries said:

He said,

Homeschoolers are very apt when it comes to speaking and meeting people. Often we are asked question such as “How do you ever meet people?” Well, through Homeschool groups, City recreational leagues and classes, Church groups, and many other ways. Homeschoolers are not under socialized or overbearingly shy around people or groups any more than any Public School Student. In fact, Homeschoolers have a highly diversified portfolio of Socialization from many ages and groups. Often when Homeschoolers have younger siblings the older ones teach the younger, developing leadership. Public Schools many times negative affects of teasing and bad peer pressure arise.​

And I said

"To say that you have the same integration with your peers as someone who goes to school is just wrong. With hindsight (something you don't have DreadHelm), you are missing out."

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If your post was a response to his paragraph then ok, but you could have made that more clear. For all we knew you hadn't even read it.

Which is valid. No matter how much he claims to integrate with others, the public schooled kids do more. He socialises at the church etc....so do the public school kids on top of what they do. The negative effects of bullying and peer pressure? Its all there in the real world too. Best learn to deal with it graually rather than in one big confrontation with the real world when homeschooling's finished.

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Someone doesn't have to be bullied or experience peer pressure to know how to enter the "real world".

Its when BB said, "Dread didn't have to worry about meeting drug dealers in the hallway." like the solution is to deal with the problem by taking the KIDS out of the school. Now that is a liberal attitude. Deal with the problem by taking the dealers out of the school and teaching the kids about drugs and their effects. An important part of growing up is learning about working within a group.

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Of course we should try to make our public school system better and try to fix problems of violence and drugs, but until that situation is improved better homeschooling is a very good alternative.

OEJ doesn't seem to think that kids talk when lining up, eating food or in the classroom, going to and from school. You know what they dont just talk, but they joke and fight, rip on one another and make out. I'm guessing OEJ must have been homeschooled as well because he seems oblivious to this.

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And you're saying that's necessary for someone to be "socially well-adjusted"?
Yes, there is a significant amount of interaction between the students. I just think that to say someone needs it to know how to interact with people is wrong. For every person who goes through public school and interacts very well with people you're probably going to have someone that comes out of highschool that doesn't know how to interact with people. I understand that you aren't saying all homeschooled children are socially maladjusted (at least I don't think you are). I just think that you'll find both types of children in public schooling and homeschooling.

Sure I can when I spot his behaviour. And when I talk from experience from other homeschooled kids. I can quite clearly say that DH is missing out on interacting with his peers.

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He does interact with peers, just the environment is different. Are you saying that interaction in school is necessary?

Some might say he is a nice kid, and I wish him all the best, but sorry if he carried that attitude in school he'd be torn apart by the other kids. Church kids might not do it, nor might the debating team but not many schools are made up of just church kids and debating team kids, there usually a few other sorts too. Look at how he deals with confrontation by calling names, same as BB and a few others. He's learning from his peers, but his peers are here are not his own age.

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TOL is not the only place DreadHelm has interaction with people. I really have no idea what he's like outside of TOL.

He calls himself homophobic and fanatical. Yet he is still a child. He's not made up his own mind, he's too young, its been made up for him. And whats more he has nothing to counteract it. You want to call yourself Christian....go and learn the world's religions first and then at the end of it decide if you're a Christian. Want to call yourself homophobic, go and be a heterosexual and then meet some gay people, then call yourself a homophobe. Want to say you hate certain types of people....go and travel the world and meet all types of people.

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You may say that DreadHelm is being indoctrinated to believe certain things, but it happens in public school also.

Want to say you are socially adept, go and interact with all aspects of society....not just the parts that have been revealed to you. As it is you're being sheltered.

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And you are saying that public schooled students "interact with all aspects of society"?
DreadHelm gave several examples of interaction, why do you believe that public schooling is an essential?

No Worries said:

You must lose quite a bit then.

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:nono:

The title/topic is "Homeschooling vs. Public Schooling" and I addressed it. It might not be the avenue you'd like me to go down but that means nada to me. You might be used to adults that allow 'Dreadhelm' to be 'Dreadhelm' and cut you a bit of slack but that just doesn't get you anywhere. I raised a significant and relevant point and acting spoiled over it won't help your cause.

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Like K$ said, it didn't even sound like you read the OP in which I covered your main problem (socialization). Instead of actually responding to my point you just made an assumption.

These Aussie morons are even worse at debating homeschooling than they are at politics.

Why is it that non-homeschoolers say that the most important part of school is socialization? It's not, you know. The most important part of school (whether it be homeschooling, private, or public) is the education you take out of it. Public schools just can't cut the mustard, as far as education goes for most of us who choose private schools or homeschooling.

ebenz47037 said:

Why is it that non-homeschoolers say that the most important part of school is socialization? It's not, you know. The most important part of school (whether it be homeschooling, private, or public) is the education you take out of it.

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Great Point, my dear. :up:

Public schools just can't cut the mustard, as far as education goes for most of us who choose private schools or homeschooling.

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Many public schooler parents feel guilty about not loving their children as much as homeschoolers and their only recourse is to attack homeschoolers in any dopey way they can, it makes them feel a little better about their inadequacies and parental failings.

ebenz47037 said:

Why is it that non-homeschoolers say that the most important part of school is socialization? It's not, you know. The most important part of school (whether it be homeschooling, private, or public) is the education you take out of it. Public schools just can't cut the mustard, as far as education goes for most of us who choose private schools or homeschooling.

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See I have to disagree there. I seen several of my friends go onto have successful (well so far) law careers but the more intelliegent of the group were the ones that struggled once to pick up jobs when their training was up. Education only gets you so far. Much of what of is important about going to college/university is the packing up and the moving away and being your own person. Same goes for school...you should learn a lot in the classroom, same goes for the playground. I sympathise with your plight....like Ive said before ebenz, if the public schooling were as bad as you say it is and if I were in your position then I too may homeschool. But homeschooling would never (no offense) be as productive as what a good school would be.

To actually argue homeschool as an ideal preference, well it only leads to a more fractured society. It is already clear that DreadHelm is indoctrinated and he is picking this bigotry up from someone else (here its BB). Parents might not always like who their kids rub shoulders with in school...but they have to learn at somepoint.

No Worries said:

It is already clear that DreadHelm is indoctrinated and he is picking this bigotry up from someone else.

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It is already clear the Noworries is indoctrinated and he is picking this bigotry against homeschoolers up from someone else.

I don't have the time right now, but when I get it, I'll respond to post #142.

No Worries said:

See I have to disagree there. I seen several of my friends go onto have successful (well so far) law careers but the more intelliegent of the group were the ones that struggled once to pick up jobs when their training was up. Education only gets you so far. Much of what of is important about going to college/university is the packing up and the moving away and being your own person. Same goes for school...you should learn a lot in the classroom, same goes for the playground. I sympathise with your plight....like Ive said before ebenz, if the public schooling were as bad as you say it is and if I were in your position then I too may homeschool. But homeschooling would never (no offense) be as productive as what a good school would be.

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And, I have to disagree with you, No Worries. I'm not saying that homeschooling is the only choice. But, it was the best choice for my daughter and I and for many other families that I know. I can tell you that my daughter will have no problem getting a job later this year, having already been offered two apprenticeships (one at an auto mechanic's shop and one with a local plumber). If she chooses to go on to college, I will be thrilled. But, I've made it clear that that has to be her decision, not mine.

Homeschoolers, as a rule, do not seperate their children from everyone in the world. Most of the homeschoolers that I know chose to do so because of a lack of quality education in their local public schools and private schools charging too much for the tuitions. Most of us tend to get together as a group, regularly, to do "field trips" or just have fun as a group. Some of us are part of co-ops where we take turns teaching the children different subjects.

I actually think that homeschoolers are more productive than public schools because we focus mostly on education. We have our socialization. In fact, my daughter's staying the night with a friend who attends the local public school tonight. I don't limit my daughter as to who she can and cannot be friends with. And, I do not tell my daughter how to think. In fact, the other day, I told her that if, after 16 years, she cannot figure out how to think on her own then maybe I should think about putting her in a "special" school (running joke with us due to the fact that we're the only two natural brunettes in our family).

To actually argue homeschool as an ideal preference, well it only leads to a more fractured society. It is already clear that DreadHelm is indoctrinated and he is picking this bigotry up from someone else (here its BB). Parents might not always like who their kids rub shoulders with in school...but they have to learn at somepoint.

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It may not be ideal for everyone. But, it is ideal for some. You can't say that homeschooling is never right. You don't know what DreadHelm's parents had to face with their local public schools. Homeschooling is a choice that the parents, and no one else, should make.

And, like I told you before, public school is nothing like real life. There is no job that I could get where I would spend eight hours a day, one hundred eighty days a year, for thirteen years straight, with people within a year either direction of my age group. Homeschoolers get to socialize with all age groups.

BillyBob said:

He wasn't held back by a system which refuses to acknowledge excellence because it isn't fair to the losers in his class.

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I am going by things other people have said about me.

According to others' opinions, I am a testament to this very thing. I was public schooled from third grade through high school. I graduated with a c average, and had to go to summer school just to graduate. I was also unaware, until I was signing up for my senior classes, that I had failed second semester freshman English. I was on the very low end of the spectrum in my graduating class, in regards to my GPA rating. And I constantly hear that I am extremely intelligent. People are surprised to learn how poorly I did in school. I graduated believing that I would never make it in college, so I didn't go. And people are constantly pushing me to go to college, and telling me that I would do extremely well.

BillyBob said:

Of course it's wrong:
Dread didn't have to worry about meeting drug dealers in the hallway.
He wasn't distracted in a classroom of disruptive students.
He wasn't harassed by bullies and losers.
He wasn't pressured by his peers who were blindly buying into the liberal propaganda.
He wasn't oppressed by a socialist organization which spawns little commie robots.
He wasn't held back by a system which refuses to acknowledge excellence because it isn't fair to the losers in his class.
He wasn't forced to participate in dopey 'social activities' in which he was not interested.
He didn't have to waste his time listening to a bunch of commie losers who don't have a clue.
He didn't have to waste his time go to and coming home from school.




No you stupid friggin' commie, YOU are missing the point.

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Amen BB!!! :thumb:

Lighthouse said:

I am going by things other people have said about me.

According to others' opinions, I am a testament to this very thing. I was public schooled from third grade through high school. I graduated with a c average, and had to go to summer school just to graduate. I was also unaware, until I was signing up for my senior classes, that I had failed second semester freshman English. I was on the very low end of the spectrum in my graduating class, in regards to my GPA rating. And I constantly hear that I am extremely intelligent. People are surprised to learn how poorly I did in school. I graduated believing that I would never make it in college, so I didn't go. And people are constantly pushing me to go to college, and telling me that I would do extremely well.

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I got kicked out of freshman english because I refused to write a comparison paper about Christianity and communism. My teacher sent me to the office and the principle just told me to go ahead and go back to class but not til the next day. When I went the next day I was able to choose my own comparison topic but the other kids had to write the Christianity and communism paper. That wasnt even close to the worst thing about my public school expireince.

No Worries said:

First of all its not an assumption. Secondly thats not how debates work. You can't set up an opening post and then tell me what I must argue. I argue what I wish and it is your responsibility to defend your position. Thirdly its in line what other people were discussing.

I chose my first point. Your response actually shows that your education has been lacking in interaction. I will be happy to continue if you show maturity, if you don't or are incapable of doing so, then I just won't bother.

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Why should he defend his position against such a quality argument as "its not an assumption"? Kids do not learn proper social skills from other kids. They learn them from adults.

deardelmar said:

Why should he defend his position against such a quality argument as "its not an assumption"? Kids do not learn proper social skills from other kids. They learn them from adults.

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That is exactly right, Delmar. :up:

Most homeschool kids I've met are much more polite than the public school kids I know. They are usually more mature as well.

No Worries said:

I raised a significant and relevant point and acting spoiled over it won't help your cause.

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Was this the significant and relevant point you raised?

No Worries said:

To say that you have the same integration with your peers as someone who goes to school is just wrong. With hindsight (something you don't have DreadHelm), you are missing out.

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You did nothing to show how his integration is lacking nor did you explain how he is missing out. Without doing so your point does not seem too significant or relevant. At this point I highly doubt that DreadHelm is to concerned about your critique of his debating skills.

deardelmar said:

Why should he defend his position against such a quality argument as "its not an assumption"? Kids do not learn proper social skills from other kids. They learn them from adults.

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Homeschooled then I take it.

Kids learn how to relate with their peers in a work environment. An adult is not a peer to a child, it is a figure of authority at best, someone they shouldnt talk to at worst. The arguement was not "its not an assumption" it was something else, its still posted. And the argument I posted is not 'an assumption'.

ebenz47037 said:

And, like I told you before, public school is nothing like real life. There is no job that I could get where I would spend eight hours a day, one hundred eighty days a year, for thirteen years straight, with people within a year either direction of my age group. Homeschoolers get to socialize with all age groups.

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As an adult age doesnt make any difference to me, 21 or 45 whatever - I can speak to them all and relate treating them as equals. To a child it does make a difference. He may talk to an adult maturely but a 5th grader wont hang out with a 10th grader. A child of 13 will look differently on an 18 year old and a 8 year old just because of their age. A 30 year old wont look differently on a 25 or a 35 year old though.

You assume equallity in the work place, to appreciate your colleagues as peers. But for a child to appreciate peers then they have to be brought up amongst them and a child's peers are other children. A child is never equal to an adult. As an adut there are some ways in which I would never react to a mischievous child. If a child aggravates another child then a lesson is invariably learned about crossing the line from a completely different perspective, a lesson from his peers.

A child being in a classroom of people its own age is like being in a workplace as an adult with different ages.

BillyBob said:

That is exactly right, Delmar. :up:

Most homeschool kids I've met are much more polite than the public school kids I know. They are usually more mature as well.

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You're not really an authority on maturity BB.