Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture?

JudgeRightly · Apr 1, 2020

oatmeal said:
I cam across pretty harsh, didn't I?

It was probably unwarranted,, or maybe it was. However, longsuffering and patience would have been a better process.

Jesus Christ saying it does make it so.

He said three days and nights and he meant it!

Matthew 12:40

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus said:

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” - John 2:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...p;version=NKJV

Are you ignorant of the fact that "day" has multiple meanings, and that, especially in Hebrew culture, a day means from evening to morning?

I am very aware that "day" has a variety of meanings from part of a day to periods of years or more.

Jesus Christ would have been aware of that as well.

Which is why he did not say "three days"

Please reread and find out for yourself what Jesus Christ said in Matthew 12:40

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

How long did Jesus say he would be in the heart of the earth?

a. three days

b. three days and three nights.

So you have to ask yourself,

Did Jesus know what he was talking about?

Did Jesus use his words carelessly?

Was he speaking loosely or accurately?

Why did he say "three days and three nights" instead of your theology which says "three days"?

At least we agree on Jesus' ability to count to three.

He said three days and three nights because he meant three days and three nights and nights

He said three because he can count and he meant three of each.

I didn't refuse to. I did not include it because it seems a popular enough verse that most people would know what I was referring to.

My mistake. Evidently, you didn't know as well as you should have known.

Another reason, if you must know is that this website used to link up to another website that would display verses that that complete references, evidently, it no longer has that feature.

So, for your benefit I submit the following from Bible gateway:

KJ21
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
ASV
for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
AMP
for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
AMPC
For even as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
BRG
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
CSB
For as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
CEB
Just as Jonah was in the whale’s belly for three days and three nights, so the Human One will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
CJB
For just as Yonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the depths of the earth.
CEV
He was in the stomach of a big fish for three days and nights, just as the Son of Man will be deep in the earth for three days and nights.
DARBY
For even as Jonas was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, thus shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
DLNT
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea-creature, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
DRA
For as Jonas was in the whale's belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
ERV
Jonah was in the stomach of the big fish for three days and three nights. In the same way, the Son of Man will be in the grave three days and three nights.
EHV
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
ESV
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
ESVUK
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
EXB
[^LFor just as] Jonah was in the stomach of the ·big fish [sea monster; sea creature] for three days and three nights [Jon. 1:17]. In the same way, the Son of Man will be in the ·grave [^Lheart of the earth] three days and three nights.
GNV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly: so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
GW
Just as Jonah was in the belly of a huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
GNT
In the same way that Jonah spent three days and nights in the big fish, so will the Son of Man spend three days and nights in the depths of the earth.
HCSB
For as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
ICB
Jonah was in the stomach of the big fish for three days and three nights. In the same way, the Son of Man will be in the grave three days and three nights.
ISV
because just as Jonah was in the stomach of the sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
PHILLIPS
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said, “Master, we want to see a sign from you.” But Jesus told them, “It is an evil and unfaithful generation that craves for a sign, and no sign will be given to it—except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was in the belly of that great sea-monster for three days and nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and nights. The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation in the judgment and will condemn it. For they did repent when Jonah preached to them, and you have more than Jonah’s preaching with you now! The Queen of the South will stand up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it. For she came from the ends of the earth to listen to the wisdom of Solomon, and you have more than the wisdom of Solomon with you now!
KJV
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
AKJV
for as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
LEB
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
TLB
But Jesus replied, “Only an evil, faithless nation would ask for further proof; and none will be given except what happened to Jonah the prophet! For as Jonah was in the great fish for three days and three nights, so I, the Messiah, shall be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
MSG
Jesus said, “You’re looking for proof, but you’re looking for the wrong kind. All you want is something to titillate your curiosity, satisfy your lust for miracles. The only proof you’re going to get is what looks like the absence of proof: Jonah-evidence. Like Jonah, three days and nights in the fish’s belly, the Son of Man will be gone three days and nights in a deep grave.
MEV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
MOUNCE
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
NOG
Just as Jonah was in the belly of a huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
NABRE
Just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
NASB
for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NCV
Jonah was in the stomach of the big fish for three days and three nights. In the same way, the Son of Man will be in the grave three days and three nights.
NET
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
NIRV
Jonah was in the belly of a huge fish for three days and three nights. Something like that will happen to the Son of Man. He will spend three days and three nights in the grave.
NIV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NIVUK
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NKJV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NLV
Jonah was three days and three nights in the stomach of a big fish. The Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the grave also.
NLT
For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
NMB
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
NRSV
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
NRSVA
For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
NRSVACE
For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
NRSVCE
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
NTE
Jonah, you see, was in the stomach of the sea-monster for three days and three nights – and in the same way the son of man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
OJB
For just as Yonah was in the belly of the great fish SHLOSHAH YAMIM USHLOSHAH LAILAH (three days and three nights, YONAH 1:17), so will be the Ben HaAdam (Moshiach) in the heart of the earth SHLOSHAH YAMIM USHLOSHAH LAILOT (three days and three nights).
TPT
For just like Jonah was in the belly of the huge sea creature for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
RGT
“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
RSV
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
RSVCE
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
TLV
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
VOICE
Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of a great fish, as the Son of Man will spend three days and three nights in the belly of the earth.
WEB
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the huge fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
WE
Jonah was inside the big sea animal for three days and three nights. So the Son of Man will be in the ground for three days and three nights.
WYC
For as Jonas was in the womb of a whale three days and three nights, so man's Son shall be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
YLT
for, as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Seems "three days and three nights" is the actual statement Jesus made, not "three days" as you seem to think.

By the way, God knows about "day" having different meanings so God makes a point of clarifying that statement when He deems it necessary as in

Genesis 1:5...

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

⁸And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

¹³And the evening and the morning were the third day.

¹⁹And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

²³And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

³¹And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

These six days of God's activity were per God's description, periods of 24 hours each.

With that in mind, Jesus likewise defined what he was talking about.

He too was speaking of three 24 hour periods of time, and if you need to know, three 24 hours in a row, no gaps. That is, one 72 hour period of time.

Thus Jesus met the legal requirement of being officially dead, having been dead for three days and three nights to be officially declared dead.

So for your benefit and learning let me repeat.

Matthew 12:40

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

All I have time for right now, recommend you listen to this:

Regarding the Lord's death, which day of the week was that?

God's Truth · Apr 1, 2020

JudgeRightly said:
Maybe because when someone sins, it not only grieves God but also those who love them?

Sure it does.

JudgeRightly said:
Why does that then imply that the person who sins isn't actually saved?

Because he was still doing sexual sins that he didn't repent of doing, obviously.

JudgeRightly said:
Where does the verse say that they were still condemned to Hell?

Paul is afraid for a reason.

JudgeRightly said:
Sounds like you're reading your beliefs into the verse, because it doesn't say nor imply that they were still going to Hell.

All are condemned to hell if they don't come to Jesus and repent of their sins.

2 Corinthians 5:11
Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well.

JudgeRightly said:
Paul is trying to edify them, not convert them! They're already saved, they just haven't repented (turned away from) their sin.

If a person doesn't repent of their sins, they aren't saved.

JudgeRightly said:
Again, do you think that we excuse ourselves to you? We speak before God in Christ. But we do all things, beloved, for your edification.For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults;lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced. - 2 Corinthians 12:19-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians12:19-21&version=NKJV

Do you know what edify means, GT?

We are not supposed to preach false doctrines. We are not supposed to keep sinning.

Do you think that Paul is edifying them?

God's Truth · Apr 1, 2020

JudgeRightly said:
Do you notice how you're having to jump around and quote verses out of order to make your point?

Try reading 1 Corinthians in order, and then 2 Corinthians in order, instead of jumping around cherry picking verses to use as prooftexts for your beliefs.

No such thing about quoting scriptures out of order changes the truth.

oatmeal · Apr 1, 2020

JudgeRightly said:
All I have time for right now, recommend you listen to this:

Regarding the Lord's death, which day of the week was that?

Thanks for the link.

I would recommend to you, VP Wierwille's book, "Jesus Christ our Passover" for the most in depth and accurate exposition of that event and others I have ever seen.

Again, if you want the fulness of what scripture has to say, read the book.

Your source, well, they should read the book as well, they could learn a lot about what scripture has to say

Sadly, the speaker denies that Jesus literally referred to three days and three nights.

The speaker refers to two and one half days, which is not what Jesus said

Aimiel · Apr 1, 2020

Right Divider said:
Believe it all... Believe it for what it actually means.

I do. Not only that: but I also realize that God ALWAYS agrees with those who put their faith in His Word. He doesn't make 'special' cases out of any race, creed, denomination or even those who read their Bible every day and hold what they believe is correct doctrine... He just applies grace and agrees with our faith in Him.

The little flock was to be given a nation. The body of Christ is not a nation. The little flock was the believing remnant of Israel lead by the twelve apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Who do you think you'll be judging? You and I will also sit on thrones and judge those whom we've witnessed to and those who accepted or rejected Christ's message of faith and hope.

Right Divider · Apr 2, 2020

Aimiel said:
I do. Not only that: but I also realize that God ALWAYS agrees with those who put their faith in His Word. He doesn't make 'special' cases out of any race, creed, denomination or even those who read their Bible every day and hold what they believe is correct doctrine... He just applies grace and agrees with our faith in Him.

God applies His grace in very different ways at different times.

God most definitely made a "special case" when He separated Israel from the rest of the world.

Aimiel said:
Who do you think you'll be judging? You and I will also sit on thrones and judge those whom we've witnessed to and those who accepted or rejected Christ's message of faith and hope.

You have a very vague and ambiguous view of scripture and God's plans described there.

Jesus was VERY specific about the twelve apostles sitting on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mat 19:28 KJV And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus never mentioned the "thrones" that you have tried to introduce. Our apostle Paul failed to mention these "thrones" in any of his thirteen epistles.

JudgeRightly · Apr 2, 2020

God's Truth said:
Sure it does.

Because he was still doing sexual sins that he didn't repent of doing, obviously.

So what?

Do you believe that if someone is saved, they no longer sin?

Because that's what you just said, whether you realize it or not.

Paul is afraid for a reason.

That doesn't answer the question.

All are condemned to hell if they don't come to Jesus and repent of their sins.

Sorry, but that's not how it works.

If someone confesses Jesus Christ as Lord, and that God raised Him from the dead, that is how one is saved.

Repentance comes after one is saved.

2 Corinthians 5:11
Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well.

And?

If a person doesn't repent of their sins, they aren't saved.

Sorry, but that's not what the Bible says.

We are not supposed to preach false doctrines. We are not supposed to keep sinning.

Do people sin after becoming saved?

Do you think that Paul is edifying them?

Do you know what edify means, yes or no?

Because if you don't, you need to look it up. That is what Paul was doing. He wasn't preaching to the unsaved, he was edifying the saved.

JudgeRightly · Apr 2, 2020

oatmeal said:
Thanks for the link.

I would recommend to you, VP Wierwille's book, "Jesus Christ our Passover" for the most in depth and accurate exposition of that event and others I have ever seen.

Again, if you want the fulness(sic) of what scripture has to say, read the book.

Your source, well, they should read the book as well, they could learn a lot about what scripture has to say

Are you suggesting that that book is required reading to understand plain scripture?

If so, then are you ALSO suggesting that everyone who came before that book was written could not understand the Bible because that book did not exist?

If so, then you have made that book an idol, placing it ABOVE scripture.

The only book you need to read to understand the Bible is the Bible itself. Not even Bob says that his book, The Plot, is required reading to understand the Bible, even though I can personally attest that listening to His seminar that He did where he taught through it has helped me understand.

The other issue I have with your suggestion, apart from you saying I must read it if I want to know what the Bible says, is that you're also suggesting that I go out and purchase said book, or hope that it's in my town's library, whereas I gave you a link to a 30 minute radio program to listen to, which, aside from taking 30 minutes of your time listening to (which you can do other things while listening to it, assuming you can multitask), is completely free. Why should I have to buy a book about the Bible written by a man I probably disagree with anyways when I can just as easily read and study the Bible for myself?

Try reading plain scripture, learn what it says, and THEN you can read other people's interpretations of it.

Sadly, the speaker denies that Jesus literally referred to three days and three nights.

See, here's the problem with that assertion.

Jesus didn't say "after three days, I will raise it up."

He said "in three days, I will raise it up." That means it would be accomplished by the end of the third day.

In other words, two and a half (or however much of the third day it was) days fits well within what Jesus said, and what Paul said.

Again, Jesus did NOT say "after," He said "in."

The speaker refers to two and one half days, which is not what Jesus said

Do you deny that Paul stated clearly that Christ rose ON the third day, rather than after it?

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians15:3-4&version=NKJV

Do you deny that Christ rose on a Sunday?

Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. - Luke 24:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke24:1-2&version=NKJV

Do you deny that both the Friday AND Saturday of that week were Sabbath days (as mentioned in the show)? If so, what is your evidence that that Friday was NOT a Sabbath?

JudgeRightly · Apr 2, 2020

Aimiel said:
I do. Not only that: but I also realize that God ALWAYS agrees with those who put their faith in His Word.

God "agrees" with them?

He doesn't make 'special' cases out of any race, creed, denomination or even those who read their Bible every day and hold what they believe is correct doctrine...

You have apparently never read the Old Testament...

He just applies grace and agrees with our faith

"Agrees" with our faith?

Perhaps you want to reword that, because that sounds heretical.

in Him.Who do you think you'll be judging?

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge?I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? - 1 Corinthians 6:2-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians6:2-5&version=NKJV

You and I will also sit on thrones and judge those whom we've witnessed to and those who accepted or rejected Christ's message of faith and hope.

Scripture please.

oatmeal · Apr 2, 2020

JudgeRightly said:
Are you suggesting that that book is required reading to understand plain scripture?

If so, then are you ALSO suggesting that everyone who came before that book was written could not understand the Bible because that book did not exist?

If so, then you have made that book an idol, placing it ABOVE scripture.

The only book you need to read to understand the Bible is the Bible itself. Not even Bob says that his book, The Plot, is required reading to understand the Bible, even though I can personally attest that listening to His seminar that He did where he taught through it has helped me understand.

The other issue I have with your suggestion, apart from you saying I must read it if I want to know what the Bible says, is that you're also suggesting that I go out and purchase said book, or hope that it's in my town's library, whereas I gave you a link to a 30 minute radio program to listen to, which, aside from taking 30 minutes of your time listening to (which you can do other things while listening to it, assuming you can multitask), is completely free. Why should I have to buy a book about the Bible written by a man I probably disagree with anyways when I can just as easily read and study the Bible for myself?

Try reading plain scripture, learn what it says, and THEN you can read other people's interpretations of it.

See, here's the problem with that assertion.

Jesus didn't say "after three days, I will raise it up."

He said "in three days, I will raise it up." That means it would be accomplished by the end of the third day.

In other words, two and a half (or however much of the third day it was) days fits well within what Jesus said, and what Paul said.

Again, Jesus did NOT say "after," He said "in."

Do you deny that Paul stated clearly that Christ rose ON the third day, rather than after it?

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

Do you deny that Christ rose on a Sunday?

Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. - Luke 24:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

Do you deny that both the Friday AND Saturday of that week were Sabbath days (as mentioned in the show)? If so, what is your evidence that that Friday was NOT a Sabbath?

Wow, you are really good at reading into things that which is not there! Don't worry, it is possible to overcome that if you want to.

Are you suggesting that that book is required reading to understand plain scripture?

If so, then are you ALSO suggesting that everyone who came before that book was written could not understand the Bible because that book did not exist?

If so, then you have made that book an idol, placing it ABOVE scripture.

The only book you need to read to understand the Bible is the Bible itself. Not even Bob says that his book, The Plot, is required reading to understand the Bible, even though I can personally attest that listening to His seminar that He did where he taught through it has helped me understand.

You can do the research all by yourself without any help and good luck if you accomplish one tenth of what VP Wierwille and many others who helped him did in several decades of work.

Interestingly, you are the one that provided something other than scripture and did so first. How? By suggesting that I check out that link you provided. You might want to consider that before you accuse others of the very things you do. Although there was some good information in there, like some history and cultural considerations, there was actually very, very little scripture referred to. In that, it was disappointing. the speakers in the audio link you provided tended to avoid scripture rather than embrace it.

Interestingly, one of the toughest jobs of finding out what scripture actually teaches is learning to put away preconceived notions, traditional teachings, emotions, denominational dogmas that may or may not be based on scripture.

The tough part is starting off with a clean slate void of all those mental obstacles to reading what is written.

As I made clear, Jesus was not kidding about three days and three nights

You and your buddies might have had a point about the word "day" having a variety of meanings in scripture, but it seems that your teachers have failed to take into account that Jesus did not say "three days" or "about three days", he said, "three days and three nights" and so far you have not addressed that whatsoever. He said three days and three nights and he meant it. There is no reason for me to believe he meant anything else but three days and three nights, not 2.5 days, but 72 hours.

the only reason it seems that people cling onto a period different than 72 hours is because they have not done their homework to find out the depth of what scripture teaches. They cling to easy stuff like English translations that could have been more accurate, that in some instances cause the naive reader to veer to error.

The other issue I have with your suggestion, apart from you saying I must read it if I want to know what the Bible says, is that you're also suggesting that I go out and purchase said book, or hope that it's in my town's library, whereas I gave you a link to a 30 minute radio program to listen to, which, aside from taking 30 minutes of your time listening to (which you can do other things while listening to it, assuming you can multitask), is completely free. Why should I have to buy a book about the Bible written by a man I probably disagree with anyways when I can just as easily read and study the Bible for myself?

Try reading plain scripture, learn what it says, and THEN you can read other people's interpretations of it.

Getting a copy of that book would save you from years even decades of continued floundering around avoiding the clear statement that Jesus said in Matthew 12:40

So far, you have not given me a valid reason for me not to take Jesus' words literally.

You think you have, but you have not.

See, here's the problem with that assertion.

Jesus didn't say "after three days, I will raise it up."

He said "in three days, I will raise it up." That means it would be accomplished by the end of the third day.

In other words, two and a half (or however much of the third day it was) days fits well within what Jesus said, and what Paul said.

Again, Jesus did NOT say "after," He said "in."

I take it you are referring to John 2:19

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

You might want to review your position about the various meanings of the word "day" or "days"

In this verse, Jesus is not being as specific as he was in Matthew 12:40. Jesus is very specific in Matthew 12:40, he states, "three days and three nights" in John he speaks only of three days. thus by your own predilection you cannot state that "in three days" means exactly 72 hours in this case. It could just as well mean 3 1/2 days as well.

Do you deny that Paul stated clearly that Christ rose ON the third day, rather than after it?

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

It was the third day, at the end of 72 hours, he rose up. He was not dead and buried for 72 hours and 1 second, but exactly 72 hours as Jesus stated in Matthew 12:40.

Again, you insistence that "day" could mean a variety of time periods is needed to be understood and used where it applies, but not where it does not apply

God did not wait a second longer than necessary to raise up His son.

Do you deny that Christ rose on a Sunday?

Scripture makes it absolutely clear that Jesus was raised on the Sabbath, not on the first day of the week. He was first seen in his resurrected body on the first day of the week but had been raised in the evening of the Sabbath.

Matthew 28:1-6 makes that clear

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

²And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

³His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

⁴And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

⁵And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

⁶He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

It was still the end of the sabbath, when the two Mary's showed up.

The phrase, "as it began to dawn" is the Greek word epiphosko which can mean dawn but it is also translated, draw on. as in

Luke 23:54

And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

Thus the timing of this passage occurs while the first day of the week was approaching.

Before the women arrived there was a great earth quake... and Jesus arose from the dead which is why the angel announced that "he is risen"

Jesus died and was buried in the evening and rose up in the evening of the weekly sabbath, three days and three nights later.

That is how simple scripture is for those who care to know.

As you and the people on your link seem to know well, the new day began at evening not at midnight as in our culture, Thus the two Mary's saw the open tomb and heard the angel say, "He is risen" late on the sabbath as the evening, the start of the first day of the week was drawing on.

I know that you may have read those verses plenty of times, yet, did you understand what they meant to the subject at hand?

Don't be embarrassed, You can go only as far as you have been led, That is true for all of us.

That is the importance of the book that I referred to, it points our many, many, many such details that basically have been overlooked for centuries.

Yes, I meant centuries, maybe even to the end of the first century AD.

People have read those verses for centuries and missed their meaning.

That is why the reformation was such a big deal and as far as I am concerned the reformation continues to this day

God's Truth · Apr 2, 2020

JudgeRightly said:
So what?

Do you believe that if someone is saved, they no longer sin?

Because that's what you just said, whether you realize it or not.

A sexual sin is easier to stop then other sins.
However, even if it is hard for some to stop, they show that they are trying. You can’t just go on with sinning as always.
Hebrews 12:4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

Come on now, how hard is it?
Paul says more people work out to do a boxing match or for running a race.
We have to train ourselves to be godly, for it is a race. (Luke 6:40; 1 Cor 9:25; 1 Timothy 4:7, 8; 2 Timothy 3:16; Titus 2:4; Hebrews 5:14;Hebrews 12:11)

JudgeRightly said:
That doesn't answer the question.

It does answer the question.

JudgeRightly said:
GT:All are condemned to hell if they don't come to Jesus and repent of their sins.

Sorry, but that's not how it works.

Of course it is how it works.
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God
…and many more.

JudgeRightly said:
If someone confesses Jesus Christ as Lord, and that God raised Him from the dead, that is how one is saved.

Repentance comes after one is saved.

No way does repentance only come after.
Mark 4:12 so that although they look they may look but not see, and although they hear they may hear but not understand, so they may not repent and be forgiven.”

Acts 8:21 You have no partt or share in our ministry, because your heart is not right
before God. 22 Repent, therefore, of your wickedness, and pray to the Lord. Perhaps He will forgive you for the intent of your heart.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 17:30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach this message: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”

Matthew 11:21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Matthew 12:41 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented when Jonah preached to them—and now, something greater than Jonah is here!

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

JudgeRightly said:
2 Corinthians 5:11
Therefore, since we know what it means to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is clear to God, and I hope it is clear to your conscience as well.
And?

That is what the fear is concerning.

JudgeRightly said:
Because if you don't, you need to look it up. That is what Paul was doing. He wasn't preaching to the unsaved, he was edifying the saved.

Do you think Paul is a nice guy who just said nice things to people? Paul did right and taught what was right, even if it made him your enemy.
Galatians 4:16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

Aimiel · Apr 3, 2020

Right Divider said:
God applies His grace in very different ways at different times. God most definitely made a "special case" when He separated Israel from the rest of the world.

I'm sure it seems that way to you; I, however, believe that He gives His Grace, freely, to all. While Israel was the 'apple' of His Eye, they were the precursor to the blood-washed, redeemed champions of faith that call themselves by His Name. Yes, they were shown grace for obeying His Commands, but anyone who did so would have been, also. Look up Solomon's prayer, when the temple was dedicated. He showed God's Heart for sinners in that prayer.

Aimiel · Apr 3, 2020

JudgeRightly said:
God "agrees" with them?

Yes. He partners with those who put their faith in His Word. He's incapable of lying. His Word is Truth. He isn't a stranger to those who seek and search for Him with all of their heart.

You have apparently never read the Old Testament...

Did He ever say that one would have to be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob to find grace? I don't believe that He did. Yes: He spoke to Israel through the prophets, but His Word was precious to more than just Israeli's. Still is.

"Agrees" with our faith?

Yes. Do you believe that if we were to look up His Word for comfort, healing and guidance during this quarantine and find solace by putting faith in Him that He will disagree? No! He's ever ready to encourage faith and Jesus is always at The Right Hand of The Father interceding on our behalf.

Perhaps you want to reword that, because that sounds heretical.

Good!!! Much of what is generally believed by Christians today is far below what He intended by sending Christ to this earth. He gave us all power, in Heaven and in earth. Jesus holds that scepter and He's given authority to use it to His Body. He's the Head and we're the Hands and Feet.

Scripture please.

1 Corinthians 6:2 The saints (us) will judge the world.

weareacouple · Apr 3, 2020

Aimiel said:
Saying: Spare the rod: spoil the child.

Scripture: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

While not much different, I know that today we have a lot of spoiled children who grew up being hated by their parents.

it is interesting how many non Christians use ideas from the Bible and don't even know it. When you let them know if is rooted in scripture, then listen to them back pedal.

Right Divider · Apr 3, 2020

Aimiel said:
I'm sure it seems that way to you; I, however, believe that He gives His Grace, freely, to all.

You can believe anything, even if it's not true.

Aimiel said:
While Israel was the 'apple' of His Eye, they were the precursor to the blood-washed, redeemed champions of faith that call themselves by His Name. Yes, they were shown grace for obeying His Commands, but anyone who did so would have been, also. Look up Solomon's prayer, when the temple was dedicated. He showed God's Heart for sinners in that prayer.

There is a HUGE difference in the way that God shows His grace on different occasions and to different people. As I've pointed out to others, Jesus is never once recorded in scripture as using the word "grace" during His earthly ministry to Israel. That is a GLARING omission if all grace is the same grace.

The word "grace" only appears ONCE in the book of Luke and FOUR times in the book of John. It's completely MISSING from Matthew and Mark.

The word "grace" appears NINETY ONE TIMES in Paul's epistles.

If you cannot see the difference, you're just not looking.

JudgeRightly · Apr 3, 2020

oatmeal said:
Wow, you are really good at reading into things that which is not there! Don't worry, it is possible to overcome that if you want to.

:yawn:

You can do the research all by yourself without any help and good luck if you accomplish one tenth of what VP Wierwille and many others who helped him did in several decades of work.

I could say the same about Bob's The Plot. But I don't say that it's required reading, nor does he.

Interestingly, you are the one that provided something other than scripture and did so first.

Thankfully, I'm not necessarily a "sola scriptura" person, though I do prioritize scripture above all else.

As such...

How? By suggesting that I check out that link you provided. You might want to consider that before you accuse others of the very things you do.

... the point I had made was not "don't use extra-biblical sources, but rather to not state that an extra-biblical source is required reading to understand the Bible.

The thread is still here, and you can know that I have not changed what I said in Post #61, which is that I recommend that you listen to it, not that you are required to listen to it.

Had you refused to listen to it, then I would not have said, "you must listen to it in order to understand the Bible, because that would be false. You don't have to listen to it. You never did.

But you did listen to it, and for that I am grateful, because not many people are intellectually honest enough to hear out their opponent's arguments. So for listening to the episode, THANK YOU.

Had you not listened to it, I would have been disappointed, but I would have then attempted to convey what was said in the episode to you regardless, because what was said was and is still evidence against your position, which you so far have not addressed. More on that below.

Although there was some good information in there, like some history and cultural considerations, there was actually very, very little scripture referred to.

My first question is this:

When one is trying to determine the validity of the Bible and what is said therein, would it be logically sound (aside from trying to determine the internal consistency of the Bible) to use the Bible to prove itself?

The answer is NO, because that would be begging the question.

Assuming the Bible is correct when trying to determine if what the Bible said is correct is logically fallacious.

In that, it was disappointing. the speakers in the audio link you provided tended to avoid scripture rather than embrace it.

In what way were Bob and his guest "avoiding" scripture?

They're trying to determine the exact order and timing of a specific event IN SCRIPTURE!

0:56 in the audio, Bob specifically says "three days and three nights in the tomb," directly quoting scripture, just not spelling out which verse it is He's referring to.

"Avoiding scripture," my foot. Multiple times they reference passages of scripture, especially when talking about the 7 feasts and when they were supposed to be celebrated, which are what one should use to determine when Christ was crucified, because they limit the days on which He COULD be crucified and it still match scripture.

Interestingly, one of the toughest jobs of finding out what scripture actually teaches is learning to put away preconceived notions, traditional teachings, emotions, denominational dogmas that may or may not be based on scripture.

You should take a leaf out of your own book.

The tough part is starting off with a clean slate void of all those mental obstacles to reading what is written.

2:07 Bob asks Dr. McMurtry to lay out the topic and the issue at hand.
Dr. McMurtry then does exactly that.

As I made clear, Jesus was not kidding about three days and three nights

Which has never been in contention, and again, which is affirmed at the very beginning of the show.

You and your buddies might have had a point about the word "day" having a variety of meanings in scripture, but it seems that your teachers have failed to take into account that Jesus did not say "three days" or "about three days", he said, "three days and three nights" and so far you have not addressed that whatsoever. He said three days and three nights and he meant it. There is no reason for me to believe he meant anything else but three days and three nights, not 2.5 days, but 72 hours.

Again, "three days and three nights" is not not in contention. What IS in contention is your understanding of what "three days and three nights" actually means WITHIN the context of the Hebrew culture, and not your modern understanding of what day and night means.

You seem to be confused on what was said about 2.5 days.

Allow me to quote what was said below.

the only reason it seems that people cling onto a period different than 72 hours is because they have not done their homework to find out the depth of what scripture teaches.

To be quite honest, that seems to be you yourself as well.

They cling to easy stuff like English translations that could have been more accurate, that in some instances cause the naive reader to veer to error.

And you cling to one man's interpretation of what scripture plainly says, rather than letting scripture and the evidence speak for itself.

Getting a copy of that book would save you from years even decades of continued floundering around

Again, I could say the same thing about The Plot, but I don't say it's required reading, because you could just as easily read the Bible to obtain the information presented within.

So what's your point?

avoiding the clear statement that Jesus said in Matthew 12:40

Again, I point to 0:56 into the show.

So far, you have not given me a valid reason for me not to take Jesus' words literally.

You think you have, but you have not.

I think you've completely misunderstood me.

I think you should take what Jesus said EXACTLY as He said it, within the context of what He said, and within the context of Scripture as a whole.

I take it you are referring to John 2:19

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

You might want to review your position about the various meanings of the word "day" or "days"

In this verse, Jesus is not being as specific as he was in Matthew 12:40. Jesus is very specific in Matthew 12:40, he states, "three days and three nights" in John he speaks only of three days. thus by your own predilection you cannot state that "in three days" means exactly 72 hours in this case. It could just as well mean 3 1/2 days as well.

No, that would be "in four days."

Jesus said "in three days."

It was the third day, at the end of 72 hours,

The end of 72 hours is AFTER the beginning of the FOURTH day, according to the way the Jews determined days. I explain this below.

he rose up. He was not dead and buried for 72 hours and 1 second, but exactly 72 hours as Jesus stated in Matthew 12:40.

You still have not addressed my question.

Do you deny that Paul stated clearly that Christ rose the third day, rather than after it?

Again, you insistence that "day" could mean a variety of time periods is needed to be understood and used where it applies, but not where it does not apply

God did not wait a second longer than necessary to raise up His son.

Not in dispute.

Scripture makes it absolutely clear that Jesus was raised on the Sabbath,

So, are you then suggesting, according to your position, that Christ was crucified at midnight on Wednesday (aka 00:00 Thursday morning) or sometime before, and was resurrected on Saturday night at midnight (00:00 on Sunday morning) or sometime before?

Because that would be woodenly literally "three days and three nights" (72 hours) from the end of the Sabbath (which is the last day of the week in Hebrew culture).

not on the first day of the week.

The Bible says that Jesus was on the cross, and that the Sabbath (not the weekly sabbath, but the high sabbath, which is according to the SECOND calendar mentioned, not the first) was approaching, and because it was a sabbath, the Jews (because of their laws) needed to get Jesus down before the beginning of the sabbath, because no work was allowed on ANY sabbath day, because it was a holy day for them.

Most people would assume (because they haven't done the research) that that sabbath day would be a saturday, and thus that Christ was crucified on a Friday.

I, Bob, and Dr. McMutry, disagree with that position, because it quite clearly disagrees with the fact that Christ rose on a Sunday (Easter Sunday, or Resurrection Sunday), and which you also apparently disagree with.

He was first seen in his resurrected body on the first day of the week but had been raised in the evening of the Sabbath.

Your story doesn't fit the facts.

Matthew 28:1-6 makes that clear

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

²And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

³His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

⁴And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

⁵And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

⁶He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

See below.

It was still the end of the sabbath, when the two Mary's showed up.

The phrase, "as it began to dawn" is the Greek word epiphosko which can mean dawn but it is also translated, draw on. as in

Luke 23:54

And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

Thus the timing of this passage occurs while the first day of the week was approaching.

Before the women arrived there was a great earth quake... and Jesus arose from the dead which is why the angel announced that "he is risen"

Jesus died and was buried in the evening and rose up in the evening of the weekly sabbath, three days and three nights later.

That is how simple scripture is for those who care to know.

As you and the people on your link seem to know well, the new day began at evening not at midnight as in our culture, Thus the two Mary's saw the open tomb and heard the angel say, "He is risen" late on the sabbath as the evening, the start of the first day of the week was drawing on.

I know that you may have read those verses plenty of times, yet, did you understand what they meant to the subject at hand?

Don't be embarrassed, You can go only as far as you have been led, That is true for all of us.

That is the importance of the book that I referred to, it points our many, many, many such details that basically have been overlooked for centuries.

Yes, I meant centuries, maybe even to the end of the first century AD.

People have read those verses for centuries and missed their meaning.

That is why the reformation was such a big deal and as far as I am concerned the reformation continues to this day

Here are the facts:

REGARDLESS of what day of the week it was, the Passover lamb MUST die by 3 pm on the 14th day of Nisan. Christ, whom the Passover lamb is a symbol of, would ALSO have to have been dead by 3 pm on the 14th day of Nisan.

It was mentioned in the show (and you can fact check this) that the Hebrews use not one but TWO calendars, one for keeping track of the yearly cycle, and the second is for the different feasts. This second calendar contains the High Sabbaths, the special Sabbaths, called "Shabbaton" which are associated with specific calendar dates. Passover MUST occur on the 14th, the lamb MUST die by 3 pm, the lamb MUST be selected on the 10th day of Nisan, 4 days later, you slaughter the lamb at 3 pm, that EVENING (not at sundown, but about 90 minutes AFTER sundown) it becomes the 15th, which is the first day of the Week of Unleavened Bread. In the middle of that "week" (not the normal Sunday to Saturday we would consider a week, but only a period of seven days), they (the Hebrews) celebrate First-Fruits, the 17th day of Nisan, First-Fruits is interchangeable in the Old Testament with the resurrection.

Then, the Feast of Unleavened Bread lasts for 7 days, however, the Jews say the Passover is included with term of the Week of Unleavened Bread, as an 8 day celebration.

Passover is not a High Sabbath, but it does occur on the 14th day of Nisan regardless of what day of the week it is. Unleavened bread starts on the 15th day of the month, regardless of what day of the week it is.

So what happens?

20:30 in the show (roughly):

"We have 8 days altogether, starting with the 14th, the 15th, the 17th being the first three major feasts all in an 8 day period. Now, the lamb must be selected on the 10th day of the month. The year Jesus died, the tenth day of the month was a SUNDAY. And he rode into Jerusalem, He completes some prophecies, He is selected as the lamb by the people, Hosanna save us now. Four days later, the same people say, you know, slay this one he's perfect because the lambs were inspected for four days to be sure that they would be perfect. That's according to the law of Moses. That means that if you have Him come in on Sunday, the 10th day of the month, Thursday is the 14th. That's irrefutable. So Wednesday night, He has the last supper. It's not on Thursday night, it's on Wednesday night because that's when it becomes the 14th day of Nisan. It's in the evening. He then leaves the last supper, walks across the Valley of the Kidron, they are singing the Halel, that's described by John. And He is arrested at the foot of the Mount of Olives sometime around midnight. He is taken to two legal trials, but this is still Wednesday night, but it's the 14th day of Nisan, He's condemned in the morning about 6am by Pilate, He is crucified, nailed to the cross at 9 am, it turns dark in the middle of the day, He dies at 3pm, leaving 3 hours for the body to be taken down and interred in the ground prior to the sunset. Because the tomb was already there and prepared and his disciples knew what was going to happen. Now that means that on Thursday, he dies at 3 pm. That evening it becomes the first day of unleavened bread, that's the 15th, so Thursday night and friday during the day are the 15th but that's a Shabbaton, it's an extra special high Sabbath. Following that on Friday night and Saturday it is the 16th day of Nisan, but that's the regular shabbat, that's the regular weekly shabbat. Saturday night, it becomes the 17th and sometime during the night of Saturday night, Sunday morning early, while it's still dark, the resurrection occurs, the women come to the tomb and find the stone rolled away at about 6 am on Sunday morning the 17th, which is the Feast of Firstfruits. ANYBODY who looks at the Jewish calendar can figure that out, it's absolutely black and white. But in addition to that, we can prove it scripturally. If you start at Matthew 28 verse 1, read it in the Greek, because in the English translations it will say "early on the Sabbath," but in Greek it is not shabbat, in the Greek it's "Shabbaton."

At this point, Bob jumps in, bringing up a Greek translation, and confirms exactly what Grady said at the end, and here is the text in question, in Greek:

JudgeRightly · Apr 3, 2020

First of all, I want to say that your formatting is terrible.

Put some line breaks between what you post and what you quote. Makes it easier for people to separate out which portion of your post is a reply to the corresponding section you replied to.

Now...

Aimiel said:
Yes. He partners with those who put their faith in His Word. He's incapable of lying. His Word is Truth. He isn't a stranger to those who seek and search for Him with all of their heart.

You make it sound like God had to conform to man's standards.

Did He ever say that one would have to be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac or Jacob to find grace?

What he said to the People of Israel was that if they wanted to be in a relationship with Him, they must circumcise their male children. That's not grace. That's law.

I don't believe that He did. Yes: He spoke to Israel through the prophets, but His Word was precious to more than just Israeli's. Still is.

Again, God's people is ISRAEL. No other nation can claim that title. Israel was the People of the Law, the People of the Circumcision.

If someone wanted to enter into relationship with God, they HAD TO GO THROUGH ISRAEL.

Yes. Do you believe that if we were to look up His Word for comfort, healing and guidance during this quarantine and find solace by putting faith in Him that He will disagree? No! He's ever ready to encourage faith and Jesus is always at The Right Hand of The Father interceding on our behalf.

I think you've forgotten what was originally said. Please go back and read through the conversation, because that has nothing to do with what you said.

Good!!! Much of what is generally believed by Christians today is far below what He intended by sending Christ to this earth. He gave us all power, in Heaven and in earth. Jesus holds that scepter and He's given authority to use it to His Body. He's the Head and we're the Hands and Feet.

No, He didn't give us all power.

1 Corinthians 6:2 The saints (us) will judge the world.

You said, and I quote:

You and I will also sit on thrones and judge those whom we've witnessed to and those who accepted or rejected Christ's message of faith and hope.

Where is it stated in scripture that we will sit on thrones?

Where is it stated in scripture that it will only be "those whom we've witnessed to and those and those who accepted or rejected Christ's message of faith and hope" that we judge?

Because the verse you cited, but didn't actually quote, but which passage I quoted in full (leaving out the verse prior to and after the passage, as they only deal with how we should deal with fellows in the Body of Christ), does not say that we will sit on thrones, nor does it limit those whom we will judge to just "those whom we've witnessed to and those who accepted or rejected Christ's message of faith and hope," but rather states that we will judge THE WORLD AND EVEN ANGELS!

Aimiel · Apr 4, 2020

JudgeRightly said:
No, He didn't give us all power.

Actually, He did. He said that we would receive power, after that The Holy Ghost has come upon us. He also commands each of us: "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." It takes power to do that. His Power. If you don't want to experience that Power, you don't have to; but it is available to you.

Right Divider · Apr 4, 2020

Aimiel said:
Actually, He did. He said that we would receive power, after that The Holy Ghost has come upon us. He also commands each of us: "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." It takes power to do that. His Power. If you don't want to experience that Power, you don't have to; but it is available to you.[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

You're reading someone else's mail.

Did you also wait in Jerusalem?

God's Truth · Apr 4, 2020

Right Divider said:
You're reading someone else's mail.

Did you also wait in Jerusalem?

We are supposed to share that mail duh. What in the world are you doing reading any of the scriptures then?

Much of the New Testament is letters from the apostles to the churches, and the apostles commanded the churches to share the letters.

Colossians 4:16 After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.

1 Thessalonians 5:27 I charge you before the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers and sisters.

Again, the believers from the beginning used these books and letters from the start. That is what determined these books as scripture.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture?

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裁判官が正しく判断する

裁判官が正しく判断する

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Well-known member

BANNED

Body part

裁判官が正しく判断する

裁判官が正しく判断する

Well-known member

Body part

New member