The idea probably is that the health officials will label the phones of people who are diagnosed as belonging to infected people. Not a volunteer app. Ptentially a very effective method, but bound to raise screams in the US about individual rights.
WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF
- Thread starter God's Truth
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The idea probably is that the health officials will label the phones of people who are diagnosed as belonging to infected people. Not a volunteer app. Ptentially a very effective method, but bound to raise screams in the US about individual rights.
God's Truth
New member
Oh I see, they would take everyone's corona virus positive test results and put them in the app without their consent, and possibly without their name and address? And those who want the app must also give up their whereabouts on a volunteer basis in order for the app to work?
I can't believe this is thought of as a good idea. I mean really now, how many people who are infected are just going to be out there giving it to others? And what about the people who have it and are never tested?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Aren't they doing something similar in S Korea?
Exactly. And yes, of course. Public Health, in some countries, is seen as trumping Individual Rights.
not necessarily. And again- even if it is the case, it's a question of public health
You are missing something. Such an app could tell you that you were near somebody 3 days ago, who since then has been diagnosed with the virus. A relative of mine got a call telling her that she was at a clinic at the same time as somebody who was later diagnosed as being infected. She had to go into self-quarantine for 2 weeks, as a result.
Here (Israel), you can find maps and lists showing you where infected people have been, and when. Like "so and so gas station, April 10, 6:30 to 6:45 pm"
God's Truth
New member
Oh, okay, so you bring up something that might change my mind about it. So it is for those who are testing as a mass testing initiative whether or not you have symptoms, like a forced testing for everyone?
This is making me wonder if the Government is going to force everyone to get the vaccine when it comes out.
I'm wondering. Are you OK with security checks in airports? Or does it violate civil liberties?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
that means having to track everybody, all the time and record that data to refer to in the future
in terms of civil liberties, that's problematic
God's Truth
New member
Which security checks in particular?
I am for Trumps travel bans, and glad Trump stopped the Muslim migration here.
I mean security, not virus related. 9-11 related...having your baggage scanned, metal detectors, body scans, sniffers...
God's Truth
New member
I wasn't talking about virus related. I think getting a body scan is too invasive, but everything else seems okay. Why?
It has to do with the balance between civil rights and public safety. It's parallel to the virus situation.
God's Truth
New member
It can be taken too far.
That's more than problematic. That is outright totalitarianism as it is exactly what is going on in China. No matter where you go the government tracks you in real time, and then uses social credit scoring to give or withhold a person's access to the financial system.
You are making an unfair extrapolation from China to the US. What about Taiwan? Israel? S. Korea?
And- what happens during a war? Say WW2? How many limitations do people have? How about the draft?
The US is on a direct trajectory to social credit scoring and 5G wireless which the Chinese use for all their tracking. 5G has enough bandwidth to accommodate a million devices per square mile and is designed as a communication network for computers/machines. US companies designed and built the AI and apps China uses and are pushing the same ideas and technology here. Google was funded by the CIA. DARPA was working on an app to monitor everyone's associations for the military. And then Facebook was stolen from the original developers and given to Zuckerberg. DARPA had worked on their app for a decade, and Zuckerberg claims he and one assistant wrote Facebook in one summer. And it does exactly what DARPA was wanting to do. DARPA dropped their development on their app almost to the very day Facebook was published.
We already have the government recording every move we make on a networked computer and cell phone networks.
So, you're equating things like the draft and a war time economy to 24/7, 365 days/year surveillance? Are you kidding me? I lived out the end of the draft years. The government knew my age and education status. It didn't know all my daily movements, everyone I talked with, everything I read and downloaded, every penny I spent and where I spent it and what I spent it on. Your attempt to make these things equivalencies is nothing more than a straw man. To say WW2 domestic policies are the equivalent of today's surveillance is ludicrous in the same way making the draft an equivalent of computerized society is ludicrous. There was rationing during WW2, but it was because there was a maximum war effort going on. There were limitations to travel but only because of gasoline rationing. Black market gasoline was readily available and there was no way to tell them apart. So, in effect travel was possible at all times. And no one was tracking every citizen's movements, eating habits, social habits, etc.... We are going to have rationing with no war going on. And you see these two as equivalent? We are going to have access to the entire financial system dictated upon our political correctness or lack there of.
What we have going on, and I know you'll scoff because you cannot believe your precious all knowing, all saving government could ever do you wrong, is a world wide movement meant to destroy liberty all around the world by the financial elite. They want total control and they have worked for centuries to set this up. At this time we, as a planet, have more debt than at any time in the history of mankind. We also have interlocked fiat currencies which has never existed in history before. Before if one nation went bankrupt other nations were not affected nearly as much because each had it's own currency back by gold or silver. In other words each currency had a solid backing of intrinsic value. Today? If one country falls they all fall like dominos. All we have is money printed from the creation of debt. In other words, when people and organizations can't pay their debts the money has zero value. It's actual value will be how you can use it to start a fire or to burn it to create heat, use it as insulation to keep out the heat and cold, etc.... That will be it's total monetary value at some point in time so it won't matter if the bill burned will be a $1 bill or a $10000 bill. It will have the same value. Remember Germany between WW1 and WW2, It literally took a wheelbarrow full of their fiat currency to buy a loaf of bread. When workers got paid they immediately went to the bank and cashed their checks and went grocery shopping because if they waited to the end of the day their paychecks were so devalued as make them worth only a couple of pennies on the Deutchmark. And look at the stacks of money it takes of Venezuelan currency it takes to buy a cup of coffee. There are images of this online for coffee, bread, steak, etc.... And those images are a year or two old so have little relationship to the size of the stacks it takes today to buy the same things.
All the nations of the world are doing the same things the US is doing. So what about Israel, S. Korea, and Taiwan? They're no different.
Our current major, world wide depression was coming with or without the coronavirus. In September the entire financial system broke. The FED started printing and loaning money to the banking system on over night loans so the banks wouldn't have to declare bankruptcy. The FED was loaning out up to $110 billion a night. They called it a "liquidity crisis". You know what "liquidity" is? It means having enough cash to pay your bills. The banking system had so much debt it couldn't pay it's daily expenses thus the overnight loans from the FED. And guess what happened the very next month? Coronavirus happened. It's pointed to as the catalyst for our depression and economic shutdown, but that was coming with or without it. Now it's the media's and government's excuse for what the FED and out of control spending by government has been doing to our nation since the founding of the FED. And the rest of the world is facing the same thing because the central banks around the world and the governments have spent themselves into bankruptcy.
Look at the government's response to this. Print trillions of dollars in "stimulus" payments. What's the effect of that? More debt so less value in the currency. So far in a matter of a few months the government has borrowed and more than $4 trillion and is talking about borrowing and spending even more trillions of dollars. In other words, in less than 4 months the government has borrowed the equivalent of a year's worth of spending, and it's going to go up from here. The national debt is soaring. It was around $21 trillion at the beginning of this. What's it going to be at the end of this year? $27 trillion? $30 trillion? More? Nobody knows. But who is going to have to pay this money back? We are, plus our children, their children, and their children, etc....
The world will be bankrupt for many generations. Everyone except for the financial elite will be living in absolute poverty. The financial elite? They will own everything there is to own as we are all indebted to them. They created the money out of thin air we borrowed so they own all property, goods, food, etc.... We the people own nothing.
Who is this "financial elite" that has been working on this for "centuries"?
You are going to have to study that out for yourself. Much of the info is still out in the wild but it is being scrubbed. One starting point is study who took over a controlling interest in the entire English economy after the Battle of Waterloo. It's historical fact. They created a panic in the markets and then bought up control of the market once the market completely tanked due to fear. The next subject to study economics. Real economics not Keynesian economics. Understand exactly how honest money works and thus you will recognize false money theories and how they rip off the people.
G. Edward Griffin, a historian and author of The Creature From Jekyll Island, said that while he was researching the book there came a moment in time that so horrified him that he actually stopped researching and working on the project because he had reached a level of knowledge that scared him and made it very difficult for him to psychologically move beyond that point of comfort. Fortunately he got past that point and wrote the definitive history of the Federal Reserve, how it operates, and the agenda it has that is other than it's public statements and can only be found by studying their actions throughout their history. He lays all that out in his book.
To understand these things you have to study them out for yourself. If you don't, you won't find out the truth until your entire life collapses around your ears and you'll have zero time to prepare for what's coming.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
What's coming exactly? Why would anyone's entire life collapse?
I have already told you in previous posts on this thread. Do you understand the implications of the US economy collapsing 35% in one quarter. That's not my number that's the number given by the government's own financial people. Now think about the implications of that on the world's economy in a world in which debt is the foundation for 99% of the world's currencies. The government's own analysts predict a 42% unemployment rate in the US. Think about the impact of that on the English economy, and you guys will have a very similar, or even worse, unemployment rate because of the debt levels of your entire economy. Every nation world wide is going to have similar unemployment statistics because every nation on earth has the same types of currencies and debt levels.
In the US 15% of corporations will most likely not recover/reopen. Why? Because before this explosion of debt, supply chain interruptions, reduced incomes, etc... happened they were already classified as "zombie" companies. Why? Because they were so far in debt they couldn't make a profit. All they could manage to do was pay the interest on their debt. Now with months of no earnings what will their financial condition look like? They can't borrow more for they won't be able to pay the interest, and all business activity is going to be reduced for a long time. They're done for, and some of these are large corporations. They will shut their doors and get rid of all employees, and their creditors will have to swallow huge losses on the money they have lent out. And this problem is even worse in Europe, Asia, and Africa.
Small businesses have been the largest source of job creation in the US for almost it's entire existence, and thousands upon thousands of small businesses are going to have to close their doors. That means massive unemployment with almost nobody hiring. How are people going to survive with increasing inflation that equates to higher prices for everything required just to live? Any financial recovery is going to take decades to occur. The mockingbird media will never tell you this, but many honest financial analysts and economists will.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I'm already aware of the impact that this lockdown is having on small businesses, it ain't good. I'm wondering what you're on about with this "financial elite" stuff because corporate fat cats aren't going to suffer too much are they?