User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25

Thread: Why Hell is Forever

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Jefferson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seated with Him in the heavenlies
    Posts
    6,220
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 41 Times in 25 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    63968

    Why Hell is Forever

    Why Hell is Forever

    This is the show from Tuesday April 26th, 2011.

    SUMMARY:




    * Bob and Jo Scott discuss Time Magazine's Story, What If There's No Hell?
    Pastor Bob disputes Pastor Rob Bell's book Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived. Hell exists because God made us with the ability to love, and that requires the ability to hate. And if God allowed everyone to go to heaven, then He would turn heaven into hell and for all of eternity unleash onto the redeemed the "hell on earth" that so many people already lament. And if God replaced St. Peter's gate with a revolving door, then the rebellion, pride, hatred, cruelty and selfishness that has spoiled the paradise of Eden would forever spoil the heavenly paradise. Also, the deity of Christ and eternal punishment are related doctrines, for cults that do not know that Jesus is God also tend to reject the eternal hell. If the punishment of sin is not eternal, then God could have created something of sufficient worth to pay the price, and He would not have had to sacrifice His infinitely worthy Son. But when Jesus prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will," because the Father's love for the Son was immeasurable, we can be sure that there was no other way to pay for the sins of men. And so, because the demands of righteousness required a full payment for sin, the penalty for sin could not be a finite prison term, for then Jesus Christ would not have had to pay with His life. As Southern Baptist seminary president Albert Mohler said, if Bell were right, then "you don't need Christ, and you don't need the cross. This is the tragedy of nonjudgmental mainline liberalism..." And check out also Bob Enyart's related article on Should Christians Judge? and his Nicer than God Bible seminar below!

    * Speaking of the Lost Going to Hell, Jo Contrasts that with a Story of Life and a Baby Saved Today: This little one was scheduled to be dismembered by Planned Parenthood today, April 26, 2011 in Denver, Colorado. A young man driving into the abortion mill's parking lot stopped at the driveway and took literature from sidewalk counselor Ken Scott. He had the literature in his hand as he got out of his car. Jo Scott told him to put it in his pocket because the security guard would try to take it away from him. As the man was putting it into his pocket, security guard Ron Pringle told him that he was not allowed to take the literature into the building. The Planned Parenthood patron ignored him and entered the building anyway. Whenever this circumstance occurs, former Denver police officer Pringle becomes extremely vulgar and agitated. So today Planned Parenthood called the police on their own client and six squad cars sped to the scene to arrest the young man. As the three ring circus played out, two young women walked out of the Planned Parenthood parking lot and asked the pro-lifers about the help that they had offered. Laura was desperate; her husband is out of work and she had no idea that anyone would help her. When she realized that she is not alone and that help is available she decided not to kill her child. The women in the studio audience were tearing up as Jo described Laura's tears of joy! The police told the young man with the literature still in his pocket that Planned Parenthood decided not to press charges and he was released. And he was pleased to hear that he played a part in saving a child's life, for without all that distraction, the security guard would have kept Laura away from Jo Scott! Thanks Jo, thanks Laura, and thank you Lord!



    * Today's Resource: You can listen to Nicer than God, a fast-paced critique of today's Christian teaching on the issues of forgiveness, judging, confrontation, etc. by downloading it now or getting it on an MP3-CD. Or you can get a subscribe to our Monthly Bible Study Albums to receive a different Bible Study on MP3-CD mailed to your home each month. Nicer than God would then be just one of the many worthwhile albums you will enjoy!
    WARNING: Graphic video here.

  2. #2
    Over 1500 post club Krsto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In the Central Washington desert.
    Posts
    1,503
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 59 Times in 46 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    39106
    MY RESPONSE IN ALL CAPITAL LETTER:

    Hell exists because God made us with the ability to love, and that requires the ability to hate.

    HATE IS NOT THE OPPOSITE OF AGAPE LOVE BUT EVEN IF IT WERE, THE ABILITY TO HATE NECESSITATES HELL HOW EXACTLY?

    And if God allowed everyone to go to heaven, then He would turn heaven into hell and for all of eternity unleash onto the redeemed the "hell on earth" that so many people already lament.

    IF ANYONE GOING TO HEAVEN BRINGS WITH HIM HIS POLLUTION THEN IT MIGHT BE A PLACE YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO GO TO BUT THIS STATEMENT DENIES WE WILL BE CHANGED INTO PURE SPIRITUAL BEINGS FIRST.

    And if God replaced St. Peter's gate with a revolving door, then the rebellion, pride, hatred, cruelty and selfishness that has spoiled the paradise of Eden would forever spoil the heavenly paradise.

    IGNORANCE OF THE POWER OF GOD - JUST AS JESUS SAID.

    Also, the deity of Christ and eternal punishment are related doctrines, for cults that do not know that Jesus is God also tend to reject the eternal hell.

    MANY CHRISTIANS REJECT ETERNAL SUFFERING. THAT'S NOT AN EXCLUSIVE TRAIT TO CULTS. CONVERSELY, THERE ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW JESUS IS GOD BUT ALSO BELIEVE IN ETERNAL SUFFERING. THIS STATEMENT IS MEANINGLESS.

    If the punishment of sin is not eternal, then God could have created something of sufficient worth to pay the price, and He would not have had to sacrifice His infinitely worthy Son.

    HE COULD HAVE SAVED US ANY WAY HE WANTED TO. HE'S GOD.

    But when Jesus prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will," because the Father's love for the Son was immeasurable, we can be sure that there was no other way to pay for the sins of men.

    THAT WAY WAS GOD'S CHOICE. HE WAS NOT "FORCED" INTO IT. HE'S GOD.

    And so, because the demands of righteousness required a full payment for sin, the penalty for sin could not be a finite prison term, for then Jesus Christ would not have had to pay with His life.

    THE SCRIPTURES ARE CLEAR IT WAS A SINLESS MAN WHO DIED FOR OUR SINS. RIGHTEOUSNESS "DEMANDS" NOTHING ELSE. JESUS PAID WITH HIS LIFE SO WE COULD HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. THE LENGTH OF THE "PRISON TERM" HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

    As Southern Baptist seminary president Albert Mohler said, if Bell were right, then "you don't need Christ, and you don't need the cross. This is the tragedy of nonjudgmental mainline liberalism..."

    THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH, AND THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS. THAT'S WHY WE NEED CHRIST.

    And check out also Bob Enyart's related article on Should Christians Judge? and his Nicer than God Bible seminar below!

    IF IT'S MORE OF THE SAME NONSENSE JUST POSTED, NO THANK YOU.

  3. #3
    Veteran Frayed Knot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    312
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    72
    Why exactly does the ability to love require the ability to hate? That makes no sense.

    And is there hate in heaven?

  4. #4
    Over 1500 post club Krsto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In the Central Washington desert.
    Posts
    1,503
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 59 Times in 46 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    39106
    Quote Originally Posted by Frayed Knot View Post
    Why exactly does the ability to love require the ability to hate? That makes no sense.

    And is there hate in heaven?
    I think you should apply to be the Pres. of Southern Baptist Seminary. You make more sense than the one quoted above.

  5. #5
    Veteran ragTagblues's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Selling novelty hats on the road to Eden!?!
    Posts
    314
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    625
    It puts me in mind of an old Douglas Adams quote -

    The best way to avoid un-happiness is to simply not have a word for it.
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants, and slide on the ice.

  6. #6
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    960
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    136
    I read the article. During parts of it the writer seemed to not be supporting any particular viewpoint about whether there is a hell or not ... but if you read carefully, the writer began to get his jabs at Christianity in. One example was to remark that our Bible, which Christians accept as divinely inspired, has contradictions in it. Also comments questioning why God would do such a thing?

    I'm interested in this subject of eternal hell ... but I'm not sure whether we will find the information in this world to be able to say flatly that hell (sometimes known as - a place of eternal torment and awareness) is forever.

    I wrote the definition of hell ... because I've known people in the past to start arguments about the word 'hell' whether it just means eternally decayed in the grave as dust of the ground or means eternally in a place of awareness and torment.

    I have come to some personal conclusions based on my studies ... but would never get into heated arguments over my ideas.

    If I were to consider that hell is a place of eternal awareness and torment... then this is what I'm thinking about whether that is true or not.

    I happen to believe that ONE DAY ... at the very culmination of all the processes set in motion by God since the beginning ... that and eternal 'hell' will be obliterated.

    These are part of the reason why I think this:
    Revelation 6:7,8 KJV
    And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, "Come and see."
    8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

    Revelation 19:20 KJV
    And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Revelation 20:13,14,15 LKV
    And the sea (of living humanity) gave up the (spiritually) dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the (spiritually and physically) dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Revelation 21:8 KJV
    But the fearful, and unbelieving and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

    I believe that there is a place of awareness and torment after physical death ... whether it is called the "PIT" or "HELL" does not matter so much to me ... but I believe that at the END OF ALL GOD'S PLANS ... that there will ultimately come an END to both dying and to torment.

    Part of the torment of the PIT/temporary Hell is knowing that they will face the SECOND DEATH ... along with the likes of Satan/the beast/false prophet.

    Those who have been rescued by being held IN CHRIST by the power of his HOLY SPIRIT in them ... will not face the final obliteration of the SECOND DEATH.

    There are tormented souls at this time, who may comprehend that they really goofed up in this life ... and whether any of them will be rescued out of torment right before the Lake of Fire ... like a burning smoking stick snatched out of a fire ... I don't know. It depends on what is written in the book of Life on judgment day.

  7. #7
    LIFETIME MEMBER Nick M's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    13,730
    Thanks
    324
    Thanked 3,298 Times in 2,285 Posts

    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147745
    Krsto
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  8. #8
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Precariously balanced on top of a mineshaft
    Posts
    7,389
    Thanks
    1,087
    Thanked 1,700 Times in 989 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    1641705
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Krsto
    Those who blindly accept a doctrine of eternal torment for their fellow man whilst being fallible themselves.



    Nah. Mockings not really the right approach for such ignorance and callousness...

    Well this is fun isn't it?


  9. #9
    Over 6000 post club Ktoyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Alabama and Florida
    Posts
    6,798
    Thanks
    828
    Thanked 2,457 Times in 1,959 Posts

    Blog Entries
    4
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2147664
    Why should I care?
    So, what?

    believe it!

  10. #10
    Over 1500 post club Krsto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In the Central Washington desert.
    Posts
    1,503
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 59 Times in 46 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    39106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    Why should I care?
    You might have a loved one heading in the wrong direction?

  11. #11
    Over 1500 post club Krsto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In the Central Washington desert.
    Posts
    1,503
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 59 Times in 46 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    39106
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Krsto
    Your brilliance knows no bounderies.

  12. #12
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    27
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    110
    Are you worried about hell? You can get out of it quite easily...right now. Just ask Jesus into your heart, since He's paid the price for your sins, and you will not go to hell. It is really that simple. Pray for your own salvation, then recieve it. THAT'S IT.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Jefferson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Seated with Him in the heavenlies
    Posts
    6,220
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 41 Times in 25 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    63968
    Quote Originally Posted by Frayed Knot View Post
    And is there hate in heaven?
    Yes:

    Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in Your sight. You hate all doers of iniquity.

    Psalm 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

    Psalm 11:5 Jehovah tries the righteous; but His soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.

    Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal, for there I hated them. I will drive them out of My house for the wickedness of their doings. I will love them no more; all their rulers are revolters.

    Zechariah 11:8 I also cut off three shepherds in one month. And My soul loathed them, and their soul also detested Me.

    Leviticus 20:23 And you shall not walk in the ways of the nation which I cast out before you. For they committed all these things, and therefore I loathed them.

    Proverbs 6:16-19 These six things the LORD hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among the brethren. (Notice the progression in this passage is from head to feet. He begins with the eyes - the proud look - then proceeds to the tongue, then to the hands, then to the heart, and then finally to the feet. In other words, God hates the sinner from head to feet. Again notice that God does not just hate the false witnessing, rather He hates the "false witness" himself. And notice that God does not just hate discord, rather he hates the "one" who sows that discord.)
    WARNING: Graphic video here.

  14. #14
    Resident Gadfly. Granite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Live free or die.
    Posts
    11,976
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts

    Blog Entries
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    510472
    Hell's permanent because a temporary punishment isn't scary enough. Why make a threat PG-13 when you can go for a hard R?
    If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.
    --George Monbiot




    Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
    --Homer J. Simpson

  15. #15
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    960
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    136
    Quote Originally Posted by Granite View Post
    Hell's permanent because a temporary punishment isn't scary enough. Why make a threat PG-13 when you can go for a hard R?
    So... does your comment, Granite, mean that you believe in an eternal hell?

    OR

    Were you just mocking the views of someone else?

    Until someone shows me a reason not to believe this ---I believe there is a place of torment now ... and this place exists until God ends the plans that he has put in process from the beginning which leads to the perfecting of the saints and the world. At the very end God will send death and hell into the lake of fire which is the second death ... and the end of both death and torment.

    Do you study this subject of hell and have any views about it based on your research? Do you have any comments about it other than: "I don't believe in it no matter what anyone says."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us