Jadespring and 's/he-is-all-in-all'
- Thread starter Nineveh
- Start date
- Status
Nin, I picked up two free mags having to do with New Age crap. In almost every article, they have to quote the Bible, as if that gives weight or validity to whatever point or claim they're making. Hating God, but not able to be taken seriously without His word. Weird dopey people.
Jadespring
New member
Some stuff from the Bible around a spiritual understanding of God as all, in all, through all, with us all etc etc.
Just a few things to start off with.
Matthew is predicated on the concept of Emanuel can be interpreted on multiple levels.
Literally-Jesus/God here in the flesh, Spiritual-Name conveys the understanding of the closeness of God.
See, the virgin will be with child and give birth to a son, and they will name Him Immanuel , which is translated "God is with us." Matthew 1:22
There is one God who is father of all, over all, through all and within all. —Eph. 4.6
For from him, and through him and to him are all things. —Rm. 8.36 NIV
In Christ were created all things in heaven and on earth
everything visible and everything invisible.... Before anything was created, he existed, and he holds all things in unity. —Col. 1-15-17
...the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him.
—2 Chr. 2:6 KJV
"The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; 21 nor will they say, "Look, here it is!' or "There it is!' For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among you." NRS
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you” KJV
Jesus uses parables to teach us about God's kingdom and the divinity found in others.
Samaritan
Seed, gardens and mustard seeds parables.....
The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field...
Psalms or Songs and Prayers are full of imagery that attempt to convey the vast presence of God everywhere....
Some selections......
Who laid [the earth's] cornerstone
when all the stars of the morning were singing with joy,
and the Sons of God in chorus were chanting praise?...
Which is the way to the home of the light,
and where does darkness live?...
Who carves a channel for the downpour,
and hacks a way for rolling thunder?
What womb brings forth the ice,
and gives birth to the frost of heaven...?
Whose skill details every cloud
and tilts the flasks of heaven...?
Who makes provision for the raven
when his squabs cry out to God
and crane their necks in hunger? —Job 38.6-7,19,25,29,37,41
The heavens declare the glory of God,
the vault of heaven proclaims his handiwork;
day discourses of it to day,
night to night hands on the knowledge. —Ps. 19.1-2
Deep is calling to to deep as your cataracts roar;
All your waves, your breakers have rolled over me. —Ps. 42.7
Where could I go to escape your spirit?
Where could I flee from your presence?
If I climb the heavens, you are there,
there too, if I lie in Sheol.
If I flew to the point of sunrise, or westward across the sea
your hand would still be guiding me, your right hand holding me.
—Ps. 139.7-10
More imagery...........
We could say much more and still fall short; to put it concisely, "He is all."
—Sir. 43.27
Do I not fill heaven and earth? It is Yahweh who speaks. —Jer. 23.24
Look at the birds in the sky. They do not toil or reap or gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. ... And why worry about clothing? Think of the flowers growing in the fields; they never have to work or spin; yet I assure you that not even Solomon in all his regalia was robed like one of these. —Mt. 5.26,28-29
Even is people remain silent. Gods presence is around us......
If these keep silence, the stones will cry out. —Lk. 19.40
Using Light as a metaphor to describe God power and everythingness....in this case the Light is everywhere even darkness cannot put it out.
Through him all things came to be, not one thing had its being but through him. All that came to be had life in him and that life was the light of men, a light that shines in the dark, a light that darkness could not overpower. —Jn. 1.2-5
The bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world...I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never be hungry. —Jn.6.33,36
For from him, and through him and to him are all things. —Rm. 8.36 NIV
God is love, and anyone who lives in love, lives in God, and God in him. —1 Jn. 4.16
God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
—1 Jn. 1.5
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us; For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain of your own poets have said. For we are also his offspring. [Acts 17:23-28.]
The Bible describes God in many non-personal images. Spirit, Sun, Word, Rock, Fire, Light, Waters of Life, Wisdom, and Love. Imagery is constantly used like this by people as they try to put spiritual concepts into words.
Just a few things to start off with.
Matthew is predicated on the concept of Emanuel can be interpreted on multiple levels.
Literally-Jesus/God here in the flesh, Spiritual-Name conveys the understanding of the closeness of God.
See, the virgin will be with child and give birth to a son, and they will name Him Immanuel , which is translated "God is with us." Matthew 1:22
There is one God who is father of all, over all, through all and within all. —Eph. 4.6
For from him, and through him and to him are all things. —Rm. 8.36 NIV
In Christ were created all things in heaven and on earth
everything visible and everything invisible.... Before anything was created, he existed, and he holds all things in unity. —Col. 1-15-17
...the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him.
—2 Chr. 2:6 KJV
"The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; 21 nor will they say, "Look, here it is!' or "There it is!' For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among you." NRS
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you” KJV
Jesus uses parables to teach us about God's kingdom and the divinity found in others.
Samaritan
Seed, gardens and mustard seeds parables.....
The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field...
Psalms or Songs and Prayers are full of imagery that attempt to convey the vast presence of God everywhere....
Some selections......
Who laid [the earth's] cornerstone
when all the stars of the morning were singing with joy,
and the Sons of God in chorus were chanting praise?...
Which is the way to the home of the light,
and where does darkness live?...
Who carves a channel for the downpour,
and hacks a way for rolling thunder?
What womb brings forth the ice,
and gives birth to the frost of heaven...?
Whose skill details every cloud
and tilts the flasks of heaven...?
Who makes provision for the raven
when his squabs cry out to God
and crane their necks in hunger? —Job 38.6-7,19,25,29,37,41
The heavens declare the glory of God,
the vault of heaven proclaims his handiwork;
day discourses of it to day,
night to night hands on the knowledge. —Ps. 19.1-2
Deep is calling to to deep as your cataracts roar;
All your waves, your breakers have rolled over me. —Ps. 42.7
Where could I go to escape your spirit?
Where could I flee from your presence?
If I climb the heavens, you are there,
there too, if I lie in Sheol.
If I flew to the point of sunrise, or westward across the sea
your hand would still be guiding me, your right hand holding me.
—Ps. 139.7-10
More imagery...........
We could say much more and still fall short; to put it concisely, "He is all."
—Sir. 43.27
Do I not fill heaven and earth? It is Yahweh who speaks. —Jer. 23.24
Look at the birds in the sky. They do not toil or reap or gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. ... And why worry about clothing? Think of the flowers growing in the fields; they never have to work or spin; yet I assure you that not even Solomon in all his regalia was robed like one of these. —Mt. 5.26,28-29
Even is people remain silent. Gods presence is around us......
If these keep silence, the stones will cry out. —Lk. 19.40
Using Light as a metaphor to describe God power and everythingness....in this case the Light is everywhere even darkness cannot put it out.
Through him all things came to be, not one thing had its being but through him. All that came to be had life in him and that life was the light of men, a light that shines in the dark, a light that darkness could not overpower. —Jn. 1.2-5
The bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world...I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never be hungry. —Jn.6.33,36
For from him, and through him and to him are all things. —Rm. 8.36 NIV
God is love, and anyone who lives in love, lives in God, and God in him. —1 Jn. 4.16
God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
—1 Jn. 1.5
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us; For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain of your own poets have said. For we are also his offspring. [Acts 17:23-28.]
The Bible describes God in many non-personal images. Spirit, Sun, Word, Rock, Fire, Light, Waters of Life, Wisdom, and Love. Imagery is constantly used like this by people as they try to put spiritual concepts into words.
Jadespring
New member
beefalobilly said:
Pantheists worship trees and rocks. I like trees a lot but don't tend to pray to them that often.
Perhaps panentheism would be a better description if you are looking for a label.
Jadespring
New member
granite1010 said:
It does. Nin just doesn't want it to.. Though I really don't know why it would be such a problem for those that want to keep 'heing' all the time. I'm not suggesting at all that they start 'sheing' or talk in genderless terms if they're not comfortable with it.
God really isn't all that fussed about some pronoun usage, specially now that we are finally dealing with the whole 'female are equal in value" issue that Jesus taught us about. Too bad it's taken 2000 years to get that one started. Guess bad habits die a hard death, especially with human's invloved in the whole writing thing. From my perspective God stating that I was created in the Divine's image pretty much says it all. Last time I checked I was female.
No, Jade, GOD doesn't allow for the possibility because of how he addresses Himself. I don't understand why you can't let God be who He wants to be just like you would oh, say, a sexual pervert. He apparently IS fussy about his gender because of how He addresses Himself. You just want Him to be confused like some transgendered freak of nature, but He's not going to accommodate you, as you will one day see.
Jadespring
New member
Rimi said:
Actually God does allow for it Rimi. He's not fussy. And I don't have to wait for this "one day" to come to find out. I've already seen.
You guys really seem to be fixated on this whole 'materialistic, flesh and blood, non spirit type of God image." The word 'transgendered ' is a modern human created concept based on a physical image of the human body. It does not apply in a spiritual understanding of the many 'aspects' of God. Jesus himself brought a new, gentler, maternal and paternal understanding of the nature of God to the Jewish people by refering to him as Abba, or Father. The equivilent today would be refering to God as Dad or PaPa. It's an intimate and loving way of addresss. Before then God was very a very remote, Lord and King of the Sky, punishing, angry and distant. Calling God Abba was a concept that was unheard of at that time and one of the reason that Jesus was so revolutionary. Unfortunately this understanding of the importance and the concept behind Jesus using this word has been lost over the eons, through translation and bad theology that has been developed long after Jesus's time, by those who wouldn't have a clue because the society was so different. It's too bad because
this intimancy with God, the closeness between God and human's as illustrated by Jesus constantly refering to himself as being one, the same, with, of etc etc is a central concept to Jesus's teachings about the nature of our relationship to God.
Ecumenicist
New member
Jadespring said:
The Wisdom of God is the female aspect of God, as witnessed by Scripture:
Proverbs 8:
1 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 On the heights along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gates leading into the city,
at the entrances, she cries aloud:
Jadespring
New member
Dave Miller said:
Yes I know, but apparently (see the other posts I made about this aspect in this thread and the responses) this part of the Biblical witness isn't good enough to allow God to have a female aspect.
Jadespring
New member
***Tangent alert***
And Dave you're avatar is freaking me out. I had that exact same image of the earth on the wall of my room growing up. It was a photograph taken from standing on the moon, made large enough to cover the entire wall so it looked as if you were there in the picture.
And Dave you're avatar is freaking me out. I had that exact same image of the earth on the wall of my room growing up. It was a photograph taken from standing on the moon, made large enough to cover the entire wall so it looked as if you were there in the picture.
Jadespring said:Actually God does allow for it Rimi. He's not fussy. And I don't have to wait for this "one day" to come to find out. I've already seen.
Jesus himself brought a new, gentler, maternal and paternal understanding of the nature of God to the Jewish people by refering to him as Abba, or Father. The equivilent today would be refering to God as Dad or PaPa. It's an intimate and loving way of addresss. Before then God was very a very remote, Lord and King of the Sky, punishing, angry and distant. Calling God Abba was a concept that was unheard of at that time and one of the reason that Jesus was so revolutionary. Unfortunately this understanding of the importance and the concept behind Jesus using this word has been lost over the eons, through translation and bad theology that has been developed long after Jesus's time, by those who wouldn't have a clue because the society was so different. It's too bad because
this intimancy with God, the closeness between God and human's as illustrated by Jesus constantly refering to himself as being one, the same, with, of etc etc is a central concept to Jesus's teachings about the nature of our relationship to God.
When you think about it Christianity is an extreme carnal, fleshy religion.
Ecumenicist
New member
fool said:
This idea is generally extracted from:
Matt 22:
29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
Do angels have genitals?
Well, I suppose, if the Sons of God mated with the daughters of men before
the flood...
Jadespring
New member
granite1010 said:
Yes it can be, but not all forms of it are. I've found that literalist versions seem to focus a lot on these aspects whereas wisdom based, mystic/metaphorical versions don't. Then of course there is everyone in between.What I find interesting is the whole pagan aspect of belief that has been brought up and the differences of opinion about what is pagan belief or not. I personally find the materialistic, blood sacrifice model for salvation to be much more 'pagan" in origin. I really don't think that Jesus as a mystical teacher was trying to teach this mode, that in fact he was trying to get us away from it and more into the realm of spiritual closeness with God and what is right for all people on the earth. He was trying to get us out of a carnel existance, out of the flesh and into the realm of the spirit and the divine.
Though I can totally see how if you read scripture from a certain p.o.v that you can find support for a materialistic model.
Not that there is anything wrong with it I guess, if it works for people.
Ecumenicist
New member
granite1010 said:
Yes, Christ came, died, and was resurrected in the flesh...
But, its not about obeying the flesh so much as bringing the flesh and
Spirit back into a restored harmony or "Oneness" which was lost during the fall...
This contrasts with ideologies which deny the flesh altogether.
Dave
Ecumenicist
New member
Jadespring said:***Tangent alert***
And Dave you're avatar is freaking me out. I had that exact same image of the earth on the wall of my room growing up. It was a photograph taken from standing on the moon, made large enough to cover the entire wall so it looked as if you were there in the picture.
Nice to know I'm having impact, though not intentional.
My avatar is such because I tend to save spectacular astronomy and hurricane satellite
pictures from time to time, so that one was handy...
Dave
- Status