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Thread: Grandstand discussion: "Ghost's Views on The Nature of Christ"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost View Post
    AMR's post does not address mine (as he himself stated). He is just telling (whoever he thinks will listen) what his view of the text is. That doesn't concern me. The onus is on him to prove that what I believe is unbiblical and reflects the teachings of Docetism. His recent post is just him showing off. It's a common practice of religious people who boast in their flesh. You, more than anyone, should know that.
    I have no clue what you are talking about. I have no boast in my flesh. None at all.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

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    godrulz, ... if it is human nature to be a child of wrath, then how do you say that Jesus has a human nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    I have no clue what you are talking about. I have no boast in my flesh. None at all.
    It is an unfair, false accusation against those who reject Exchanged Life articulations/theories, sozoisms (it is true of some people who reject the true Christ/gospel).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    I have no clue what you are talking about. I have no boast in my flesh. None at all.
    You do it all the time, as you add works to faith as evidence of someone who is saved. You also judge others according to their flesh, and whether or not they meet your standard of how you think a Christian should behave, thus comparing yours behavior with others, which is what boasting in the flesh means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost View Post
    godrulz, ... if it is human nature to be a child of wrath, then how do you say that Jesus has a human nature.
    You are confusing me with Nang and others (JoeyArnold). It is not human nature to be a child of wrath. One becomes a human at conception. One becomes a sinner when one has mental/moral capacity to sin and disobey/rebel/reject truth/God.

    Adam was created innocent, not sinful/guilty. He sinned without a causative nature back of his will (just as Lucifer did without a sinful nature). Those who follow Satan are children of Satan. Those who receive Christ are children of God (Jn. 1:12). Babies don't go to hell. Why? They should if they are born sinners and objects of His wrath (hence Catholics deal with original sin through sacrament of infant baptism, the point they think one is born again....one error leads to another).

    You may not see the light yet (physical vs moral depravity), but surely you can see that I agree with you that Paul is not talking to aborted fetuses, but people with mental and moral capacity who volitionally sinned and rejected God. We agree that men are sinners. We don't support infant baptism. We know Christ is sinless. We know we need a sinless Savior and that our works are filthy rags and add nothing to His shed blood. I am on your side, honest.

    Feel free to test and reject my view, but make sure you understand it. You are confusing being human (Jesus had a body, but was sinless) with being sinful. Being human, dog, ape does not make one sinful. Misusing our good, God-given mind and will/body is why we sin and are sinners (if Adam can sin without an inherited sinful nature, then so can his progeny).

    Jesus is, was, always will be sinless. He was also fully human, but unique in that He is fully divine. Having a body does not make one a sinner. Misusing our body with our mind/will makes us sinners (something an embryo cannot do despite being fully human...hence no moral issue, no hell).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
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    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost View Post
    You do it all the time, as you add works to faith as evidence of someone who is saved. You also judge others according to their flesh, and whether or not they meet your standard of how you think a Christian should behave, thus comparing yours behavior with others, which is what boasting in the flesh means.
    You, sir, are a liar. I can say that because in another thread I went on record, with you, clearly stating that works are not required for anything. You have once again ignored that and substituted your own words and accuse me based on that. You bear false witness.

    Second, I do not judge others. At all. There is a different Judge who sits over us all who is far more qualified to judge than I. I will make comments about how a Christian behaves and I may suggest that they should examine their behaviors to see if they are in-line with scripture, but I have never once made any proclamation about a persons state of grace based solely on their behaviors. Again, you bear false witness against me.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    You, sir, are a liar. I can say that because in another thread I went on record, with you, clearly stating that works are not required for anything. You have once again ignored that and substituted your own words and accuse me based on that. You bear false witness.

    Second, I do not judge others. At all. There is a different Judge who sits over us all who is far more qualified to judge than I. I will make comments about how a Christian behaves and I may suggest that they should examine their behaviors to see if they are in-line with scripture, but I have never once made any proclamation about a persons state of grace based solely on their behaviors. Again, you bear false witness against me.
    If you are a true believer who understands grace, then is he a liar, just wrong in his accusations, or both?

    I don't know all that you believe, but I don't doubt that you know and love the same Jesus that I do. See you in the sky.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

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    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    If you are a true believer who understands grace, then is he a liar, just wrong in his accusations, or both?
    He has passed from being merely wrong in his accusations to actually lying about what I have said because I very clearly and directly stated to him that works are not required for salvation. I believe that works are a natural result of salvation. He continues to say that I preach works based salvation. That is a lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz
    I don't know all that you believe, but I don't doubt that you know and love the same Jesus that I do. See you in the sky.
    I don't know all that you believe nor do I believe all that I see you being accused of believing. I would imagine that there are a few theological issues where we will not see eye to eye. I do believe that you have confessed with your mouth what you believe in your heart and that we are indeed brothers in Christ. See you in the sky my Brother.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    You, sir, are a liar. I can say that because in another thread I went on record, with you, clearly stating that works are not required for anything. You have once again ignored that and substituted your own words and accuse me based on that. You bear false witness.

    Second, I do not judge others. At all. There is a different Judge who sits over us all who is far more qualified to judge than I. I will make comments about how a Christian behaves and I may suggest that they should examine their behaviors to see if they are in-line with scripture, but I have never once made any proclamation about a persons state of grace based solely on their behaviors. Again, you bear false witness against me.
    Then explain this...

    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    That is why the New Testament states quite clearly that the thief, the sexually immoral, the liar and the murderer will not inherit the kingdom of God. Simply put, if you accept Jesus as your savior, truly accept Him, your life will be transformed and you will not be a thief, sexually immoral, a liar or a murderer.
    Your statement implies that those who do those things are not saved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    He has passed from being merely wrong in his accusations to actually lying about what I have said because I very clearly and directly stated to him that works are not required for salvation. I believe that works are a natural result of salvation. He continues to say that I preach works based salvation. That is a lie.
    You're the one lying. Read my previous post.
    you add works to faith as evidence of someone who is saved
    It says nothing about works to be saved, but that you teach (as you just confirmed) that works are the result of being saved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabinetMaker View Post
    He has passed from being merely wrong in his accusations to actually lying about what I have said because I very clearly and directly stated to him that works are not required for salvation. I believe that works are a natural result of salvation. He continues to say that I preach works based salvation. That is a lie.

    I don't know all that you believe nor do I believe all that I see you being accused of believing. I would imagine that there are a few theological issues where we will not see eye to eye. I do believe that you have confessed with your mouth what you believe in your heart and that we are indeed brothers in Christ. See you in the sky my Brother.
    Rom. 10:9-10


    He makes the same false accusations against me despite Jn. 1:12; Jn. 3:16; Rom. 1:16; Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:5; I Jn. 5:11-13, Rom. 10:9-10, etc.

    Any rejection of his theories/articulations is seen as a rejection of the gospel (he adds his views on sanctification to the gospel of justification). I disagree with Calvinism's TULIP, but I would not say they deny justification by grace through faith (I would be wrong to do so).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost View Post
    Then explain this...

    Your statement implies that those who do those things are not saved.
    New creature in Christ is not a title divorced from reality. A lack of transformation may be an evidence for a still birth, lack of saving faith (not a works issue). Rom. 12:1-2; Rom. 6-8; I Cor. 6:9-11, etc. should be normative, not exceptional, for a new convert over time. His equation of justification/sanctification is part of the problem (rejects a straw man of our view).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost View Post
    You're the one lying. Read my previous post. It says nothing about works to be saved, but that you teach (as you just confirmed) that works are the result of being saved.
    Faith=root

    works=fruit

    We are not saying root=fruit. Rom. 10:9-10; Jn. 3:16 is true without works.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    New creature in Christ is not a title divorced from reality. A lack of transformation may be an evidence for a still birth, lack of saving faith (not a works issue). Rom. 12:1-2; Rom. 6-8; I Cor. 6:9-11, etc. should be normative, not exceptional, for a new convert over time. His equation of justification/sanctification is part of the problem (rejects a straw man of our view).
    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    Faith=root

    works=fruit

    We are not saying root=fruit. Rom. 10:9-10; Jn. 3:16 is true without works.
    Do you agree with godrulz CM?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost View Post
    How then does Paul say that the sons of disobedience are by nature children of wrath? Eph 2:3

    What makes them by nature a child of wrath?
    Good point.

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