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Thread: Grandstand discussion: "Ghost's Views on The Nature of Christ"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

    Repentance is the common denominator of these three.
    I'm talking about what repentance actually is, what it signifies. So you aren't really raising an objection with this, only the form of one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I'm talking about what repentance actually is, what it signifies. So you aren't really raising an objection with this, only the form of one.
    Haha! Right. I'm amen-ing you with a tid bit thrown in. It came to me while I was thinking about your post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    I wasn't really asking about his salvation or lack thereof. I was asking you what you thought about this scripture; and using his actions on this forum as an example.



    I pointed out several aspects of this that your posts didn't address.

    Obviously someone's salvation is something that only God can judge. However, if a person is unwilling to follow clearly established Biblical principles; then to me it is a clear example that either they don't believe the Bible; are not saved, or are in serious need of repentance.

    One other thing.... you said this.



    Can you show me one scripture verse that demonstrates that we are only to confess our sins one time?

    And if you can, would you mind explaining why you think that Jesus commanded us to pray for the forgiveness of our sins on a daily basis, as outlined in the Lord's prayer, sometimes called the Our Father?
    I will get to this later today....I have to do some things.

    Thanks for your patience.

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    Hi Guyver:


    Originally Posted by Guyver
    I wasn't really asking about his salvation or lack thereof. I was asking you what you thought about this scripture; and using his actions on this forum as an example.
    ..and, I gave my answer, to the best of my ability.


    I pointed out several aspects of this that your posts didn't address.
    to which I had disagreement over.

    Obviously someone's salvation is something that only God can judge. However, if a person is unwilling to follow clearly established Biblical principles; then to me it is a clear example that either they don't believe the Bible; are not saved, or are in serious need of repentance.
    Are you saying that to believe in only a 'one time repentance', which is very biblical, is heretical?




    Can you show me one scripture verse that demonstrates that we are only to confess our sins one time?
    the text of 1 john says we are to confess our sins...in context, it is speaking of what a unbeliever must do...that is how I see it. There is nothing in the text that denotes it is more than once...for, he is clearly explaining the way of salvation therein.

    And if you can, would you mind explaining why you think that Jesus commanded us to pray for the forgiveness of our sins on a daily basis, as outlined in the Lord's prayer, sometimes called the Our Father?
    I believe Jesus was referring to the 'sinner's prayer...we do not say that prayer everyday as He also says that praying 'ritually' is wrong...is it not? Our sins have been removed.

    You may disagree...and, that is ok. I was not trying to argue with your viewpoint on this...there are other viewpoints..and, this is not a salvational issue, in mho...whether we repent once or many times...add's nothing to our salvation.

    We are told to confess our sins ONE to ANOTHER; no where are we told to confess them to God....over and over. I believe there is a good reason for both.

    Just sayin.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    Are you saying that to believe in only a 'one time repentance', which is very biblical, is heretical?


    the text of 1 john says we are to confess our sins...in context, it is speaking of what a unbeliever must do...that is how I see it. There is nothing in the text that denotes it is more than once...for, he is clearly explaining the wrong...is it not? Our sins have been God....over and over. I believe there is a good reason for both.
    First of all, God bless you and thanks for responding. My computer is messed up again and I can't post right.

    Yes, I think the idea of repenting once for sins is unbiblical and heretical.

    No, I do not believe that the Lords prayer is a prayer of salvation for unbelievers.

    No, I do not believe that 1 John is written to unbelievers and is a prayer of salvation. I believe it is written to believers. I think the Apostle John knows the difference between children of God and unbelievers. John wrote to his little children. Specifically, he wrote to his dear children. If the people to whom he wrote were not Christians, I don't see why he would call them his dear children.

    God bless you and regards.

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    Let me ask this question to whomever is listening or interested. What do you think your faith is?

    Do you have a relationship with God or not?

    If you have a relationship with God, what does that mean?

    Is it any different with anyone else with whom you have a relationship? Bad question. Of course it is. Yet it is the same in many ways.

    Think of someone you love. Can you imagine deeply offending someone you love and not attempting to mend that relationship, especially if the offense was your fault? I mean, even if you accidentally spill a cup of coffee on a stranger, you would bend over backwards apologizing and attempting to clean up the mess, wouldn't you?

    How would your relationship with God be any different than that? If you harm or offend anyone, you owe an apology. If you harm or offend God through your actions, especially if your actions have offended one of his children.....you have some repenting to do. That's a bottom line. Honestly, I don't see how that would be confusing. It may or may not be a salvation issue...that's debatable.

    Even if it's not a salvation issue, you think you can willfully sin before God and not offend Him? That's almost insane to even think IMO.

    Make no mistake. God is holy and he doesn't dig sin, Christian or no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    First of all, God bless you and thanks for responding. My computer is messed up again and I can't post right.

    Yes, I think the idea of repenting once for sins is unbiblical and heretical.

    No, I do not believe that the Lords prayer is a prayer of salvation for unbelievers.

    No, I do not believe that 1 John is written to unbelievers and is a prayer of salvation. I believe it is written to believers. I think the Apostle John knows the difference between children of God and unbelievers. John wrote to his little children. Specifically, he wrote to his dear children. If the people to whom he wrote were not Christians, I don't see why he would call them his dear children.

    God bless you and regards.

    I will not argue. Have a good day...and, God bless you, too.

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    Guyver:

    Let me ask this question to whomever is listening or interested. What do you think your faith is?

    Do you have a relationship with God or not?
    Faith is believing and having hope anyway in what you cannot see. A true relationship with God is based on understanding His love and grace for us...in a 'sonship', or 'daughtership' way. A true son/daughter does not have to ask over and over for her Father to forgive, what He has taken care of..once 'they' believe it has been done. Having remorse for doing wrong, is different than having to ask God to make it right again. There is an attititude of 'remorse' that is always ongoing in a christians life...this is called 'humility'. It does not require that you throw up in God's face what He has removed; however, and this is the difference, in mho. He already knows your heart.

    If you have a relationship with God, what does that mean?

    Is it any different with anyone else with whom you have a relationship? Bad question. Of course it is. Yet it is the same in many ways.
    No, it is not the same. No human relationship can take the place or be the same as that which we have with Christ.

    Humans let us down; always...no matter whom they are. Even our own spouses...will let us down from time to time. Jesus can never fit into that mold, and He wants us to know the difference. He wants us to have the peace that surpasses all understanding, and you simply cannot have that peace unless you understand that He has taken care of your sins....fully and completely. Understanding this however, is not a salvational issue, because we grow in His grace....this takes time..just as it takes time to also understand how deeply He loves each and everyone of us. He does not love as we humanly love...His is far greater, and we all know this; but sometimes we seem to have a hard time accepting it.


    Think of someone you love. Can you imagine deeply offending someone you love and not attempting to mend that relationship, especially if the offense was your fault?
    I happen to believe it offends God, whom has said it is "DONE", to bring it up to His face over and over....look at it this way. Take your spouse...for even though it cannot be compared, it is the closest thing...

    let's say you have been married for 20 years, and during the first year of your marriage you did something awful that you still regret doing. If your wife forgave you 20 years ago...does she still want you to keep bringing it up, as if it has not been forgotten?..well, that is how Jesus is...He said, ALL our sins are FORGOTTEN..not just removed; not just made white; FORGOTTEN:


    Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    Hbr 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    He wants our conscience to be clean...no guilt, simply because He wants us to grow to a point where our faith is complete. By that; I mean; it has been perfected by love and it is a process....that is why those whom claim 'babes' whom do not yet understand this and call them unsaved are in huge error. We are not supposed to judge any of God's servants...but, anyways..not getting off topic, our conscience HAS been cleansed; but faith must grow to understand what it means:

    1 Tim 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.


    2Ti 1:3 I thank God, whom I serve from [my] forefathers with pure conscience, that without ceasing I have remembrance of thee in my prayers night and day;


    Tts 1:15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

    Hbr 9:9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

    The law made nothing perfect; only bringing in of a better hope did..which is what was accomplished by Jesus Christ. That is why nothing outside of HIM is holy; sanctified; or saved.


    Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    Hbr 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

    Do you see it?

    We are to no longer be conscience of our sins....it takes FAITH; and faith perfected by love/grace will lead you to see this over time.


    (that too is written)

    Hbr 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

    We have been washed; we are CLEAN.











    I mean, even if you accidentally spill a cup of coffee on a stranger, you would bend over backwards apologizing and attempting to clean up the mess, wouldn't you?
    is spilling coffee sin, that needs to be repented of?

    How would your relationship with God be any different than that? If you harm or offend anyone, you owe an apology. If you harm or offend God through your actions, especially if your actions have offended one of his children.....you have some repenting to do. That's a bottom line. Honestly, I don't see how that would be confusing. It may or may not be a salvation issue...that's debatable.
    He said to confess our sins one to another...I will stick with that..He doesnt see my sin. I walk by faith.

    Even if it's not a salvation issue, you think you can willfully sin before God and not offend Him? That's almost insane to even think IMO.
    No; I dont believe any christian can willfully sin.

    Make no mistake. God is holy and he doesn't dig sin, Christian or no.
    But, He does forgive and remove it.
    Last edited by graceandpeace; March 18th, 2011 at 06:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    let's say you have been married for 20 years, and during the first year of your marriage you did something awful that you still regret doing. If your wife forgave you 20 years ago...does she still want you to keep bringing it up, as if it has not been forgotten?..well, that is how Jesus is...He said, ALL our sins are FORGOTTEN..not just removed; not just made white; FORGOTTEN:

    Hbr 9:9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

    The law made nothing perfect; only bringing in of a better hope did..which is what was accomplished by Jesus Christ. That is why nothing outside of HIM is holy; sanctified; or saved.

    Excellent Grace and Peace.

    Now how about those sins you commit after being saved?

    You know, like in your analogy.....let's say twenty years after marriage a woman sleeps with someone else. Does she need to repent?

    Does she need to ask God for forgiveness?

    Does she ask her husband for forgiveness?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Excellent Grace and Peace.

    Now how about those sins you commit after being saved?

    You know, like in your analogy.....let's say twenty years after marriage a woman sleeps with someone else. Does she need to repent?

    Does she need to ask God for forgiveness?

    Does she ask her husband for forgiveness?
    I'd say no. That the point of repentance in terms of her salvation is accomplished and the rest isn't found, again, in a mantra but in an intent and that intent follows anyone who has received grace. I can't love and not grieve when I offend the object of my adoration. I can't love and not desire a different methodology.

    Now that's real repentance.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Excellent Grace and Peace.

    Now how about those sins you commit after being saved?

    You know, like in your analogy.....let's say twenty years after marriage a woman sleeps with someone else. Does she need to repent?

    Does she need to ask God for forgiveness?

    Does she ask her husband for forgiveness?

    A woman that would sleep with someone else does not love her husband. A christian that would sleep with the enemy does not love Christ...I cannot see that analogy working..here.

    Let's choose one that would make sense...let's say a woman after 20 years hurts her husbands feelings, about not liking his new shirt...does the woman need to repent? No..a make up kiss will do.

    What I am trying to say is that christians do not WANT to sin..period.

    Those whom do; have never repented to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    What I am trying to say is that christians do not WANT to sin..period.

    Those whom do; have never repented to begin with.
    Have you not read I Corinthians?

    Some Christians do sin (I Jn.; Rev. 2-3). How do you explain a pastor having an affair?

    What is true at time x may not be true at time y. Using your logic, a person who divorces or grows to hate a spouse never was married and never loved them to begin with? I find your position untenable and believe it is based on wrong assumptions/conclusions.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

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    Quote Originally Posted by graceandpeace View Post
    A woman that would sleep with someone else does not love her husband. A christian that would sleep with the enemy does not love Christ...I cannot see that analogy working..here.

    Let's choose one that would make sense...let's say a woman after 20 years hurts her husbands feelings, about not liking his new shirt...does the woman need to repent? No..a make up kiss will do.

    What I am trying to say is that christians do not WANT to sin..period.

    Those whom do; have never repented to begin with.

    Whoa! Now you're opening up a can of worms there my sister. First of all, saying something that a kiss can fix is not the same thing as what I said. Big difference.

    Now you're saying that someone who willfully sins a "big" sin and thinks they're saved, is not really saved in the first place? What if they have been "saved" for twenty years? Believed and baptized, a Pastor in a church, had communion, and they do a big sin? Are they still saved? Do they need repentance again?

    Are there degrees of sin? is breaking one of the ten commandments the same thing as lying, or not loving your brother, or being angry with your brother without just cause, or judging another, or speaking evil of a brother, or getting drunk in excess, or not doing good when you know that you should?

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    Repentance is a biblical principle from Genesis to Revelation. Some seem to think it is a dirty word or Pharisaical?
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

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    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    Repentance is a biblical principle from Genesis to Revelation. Some seem to think it is a dirty word or Pharisaical?
    I know I love the Lord. I know I sin. These are both facts to me.

    When my heart is convicted of sin, I go to the Lord and ask forgiveness. I also pray for true repentance, which will give me the heart to make a change in my behavior so that I don't continue in wrongdoing. I think this is entirely scriptural, just as thanking God for all things and worshipping Him are scriptural, right, and proper.

    To me, that's what doing justly, loving mercy, and walking humbly with God is. I think this speaks to relationship, not religious works.

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