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Thread: About who does Isaiah 53 speak?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd

    Shalom Friends!

    Can anybody maybe tell me about who Isaiah 53 speaks?


    Thanks in advance,


    Eliyahu
    Isaiah 53 speaks of Jesus the Christ, (Messiah),

    Isa 53:10
    (10) Yet, it was the LORD'S will to crush him with suffering. When the LORD has made his life a sacrifice for our wrongdoings, he will see his descendants for many days. The will of the LORD will succeed through him.

    Isa 53:11
    (11) He will see and be satisfied because of his suffering. My righteous servant will acquit many people because of what he has learned through suffering. He will carry their sins as a burden.

    Heb 5:8
    (8) Although Jesus was the Son of God, he learned to be obedient through his sufferings.

    Rom 5:19
    (19) Clearly, through one person's disobedience humanity became sinful, and through one person's obedience humanity will receive God's approval.

    Isa 52:13-15
    (13) My servant will be successful. He will be respected, praised, and highly honored.
    (14) Many will be shocked by him. His appearance will be so disfigured that he won't look like any other man. His looks will be so disfigured that he will hardly look like a human.
    (15) He will cleanse many nations with his blood. Kings will shut their mouths because of him. They will see things that they had never been told. They will understand things that they had never heard.

    Heb 10:29
    (29) What do you think a person who shows no respect for the Son of God deserves? That person looks at the blood of the promise (the blood that made him holy) as no different from other people's blood, and he insults the Spirit that God gave us out of his kindness. He deserves a much worse punishment.
    2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd

    Shalom Friends!

    Can anybody maybe tell me about who Isaiah 53 speaks?


    Thanks in advance,


    Eliyahu


    Who do you suppose God was speaking to? Certainly not the GENTILES!. Now who did God speak to and of? ----- God was speaking to Israel, not the Jews or the Gentiles, about a Levite who will live in Judea. That person was and is Jesus, and He was Anointed for the Gentile.

    Paul 080711
    ---Gal. 4:16.
    ---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???

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    Deutero Isaiah (40 to 55) was written during the Babylonian Exile. This is very important to keep in mind.

    Isaiah 53 speaks of Israel, but only the righteous of Israel who were carried off with the unrighteous, or that generation who was born into the Exile of Babylon.
    And they made his grave with the wicked

    wand with a rich man in his death,

    although xhe had done no violence,

    and there was no deceit in his mouth.

    10 Yet yit was the will of the Lord to crush him;

    he has put him to grief;7

    zwhen his soul makes8 an offering for guilt,

    he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;

    athe will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
    This is clearly a reference to either the righteous of Israel who were taken captive, or a generation unaffiliated with that generation whose sins caused them to be overtaken by the Babylonian army. And if that generation, or the righteous, will make an offering to G-d, they will be freed from their captivity.
    Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see9 and be satisfied;

    by his knowledge shall bthe righteous one, my servant,

    cmake many to be accounted righteous,

    dand he shall bear their iniquities.

    12 eTherefore I will divide him a portion with the many,10

    fand he shall divide the spoil with the strong,11

    because he poured out his soul to death

    and was numbered with the transgressors;

    gyet he bore the sin of many and makes intercession for the transgressors.
    This is a reiteration of the covenant made between YHWH and Israel, albeit in differing language than say, the Patriarch's covenant.

    In my opinion, the evidence points more toward the generation born within captivity, based on the first stanzas.
    Who has believed what he has heard from us?1

    And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

    2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,

    iand like a root out of dry ground;

    he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,

    and no beauty that we should desire him.
    Growing up as a root from dry ground is a strong indicator of someone born outside of the promised land, one separated from the Glory of that which had been given to Israel.
    Surely he has borne our griefs

    and carried our sorrows;

    yet we esteemed him stricken,

    nsmitten by God, and afflicted.

    5 oBut he was pierced for our transgressions;

    he was crushed for our iniquities;

    upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,

    pand with his wounds we are healed.
    This points to someone who is unaffiliated with the transgressions which brought upon Israel their captivity, again pointing more towards those who were born after the sins were committed. It is only through their suffering, which is undeserved, and their affirmation of faith that Israel can be made whole again and returned to her home.

    I do not believe that this is a messianic passage, because it is missing both sides of the Judaic Messiah formula. There is no specific mention of a re-establishment of the faith (priest) nor a mention of a conquering individual or army (king). I do believe that this is a lamentation poem, but also one that points out the hope for Israel's restoration within that generation that is apart from the sin which led to her downfall.

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    Lightbulb Is. 53

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepskyy View Post
    Deutero Isaiah (40 to 55) was written during the Babylonian Exile. This is very important to keep in mind.

    Isaiah 53 speaks of Israel, but only the righteous of Israel who were carried off with the unrighteous, or that generation who was born into the Exile of Babylon.

    This is clearly a reference to either the righteous of Israel who were taken captive, or a generation unaffiliated with that generation whose sins caused them to be overtaken by the Babylonian army. And if that generation, or the righteous, will make an offering to G-d, they will be freed from their captivity.

    This is a reiteration of the covenant made between YHWH and Israel, albeit in differing language than say, the Patriarch's covenant.

    In my opinion, the evidence points more toward the generation born within captivity, based on the first stanzas.

    Growing up as a root from dry ground is a strong indicator of someone born outside of the promised land, one separated from the Glory of that which had been given to Israel.

    This points to someone who is unaffiliated with the transgressions which brought upon Israel their captivity, again pointing more towards those who were born after the sins were committed. It is only through their suffering, which is undeserved, and their affirmation of faith that Israel can be made whole again and returned to her home.

    I do not believe that this is a messianic passage, because it is missing both sides of the Judaic Messiah formula. There is no specific mention of a re-establishment of the faith (priest) nor a mention of a conquering individual or army (king). I do believe that this is a lamentation poem, but also one that points out the hope for Israel's restoration within that generation that is apart from the sin which led to her downfall.


    Yes, I tend to agree that this chapter refers to Israel as a collective community, a 'people', rather than a person. Jesus failed to qualify as the Jewish Messiah (per their criteria) on many counts -

    Jewish Messiah Wanted


    We cover this more in this thread -

    Messianic prophecies that Jesus fulfilled




    pj

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    Woot! Thanks PJ. I love the deutro/trito Isaiah scriptures for the poetry and the imagery. Great reads!

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    Lightbulb we are Messiah......

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepskyy View Post
    Woot! Thanks PJ. I love the deutro/trito Isaiah scriptures for the poetry and the imagery. Great reads!
    You betcha

    I see that all true sons of 'God' are an expression of 'Is-Ra-El', the peoplehood of God, a community of light, serving the higher will and purpose of creation. In that sense we are called to be 'light-workers', living cells in the messianic body.... alive with the light of life, empowering and maximizing the divine potentials within and without


    Namaste,


    pj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd

    Shalom Friends!

    Can anybody maybe tell me about who Isaiah 53 speaks?


    Thanks in advance,


    Eliyahu
    Shalom.

    It speaks of Yeshua HaMashiach.

    I am on the one year Torah reading cycle.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Shalom.

    It speaks of Yeshua HaMashiach.

    I am on the one year Torah reading cycle.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    Bs"d

    Anybody can give some proof FROM THE HEBREW BIBLE that Isaiah 53 speaks about the messiah?
    Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs"d

    Anybody can give some proof FROM THE HEBREW BIBLE that Isaiah 53 speaks about the messiah?
    Shalom.

    To read about the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible is good. To recognize that the Messiah spoken of is Yeshua is something else. Not everyone can see this without reading about Yeshua.

    Shalom.

    Jacob
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

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