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Thread: The virgin birth in Isaiah 7

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    The virgin birth in Isaiah 7

    Bs'd

    The prophecy of Isaiah 7:

    1: In the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, son of Uzzi'ah, king of Judah, Rezin the king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remali'ah the king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to wage war against it, but they could not conquer it. 2: When the house of David was told, "Syria is in league with E'phraim," his heart and the heart of his people shook as the trees of the forest shake before the wind. 3: And the LORD said to Isaiah, "Go forth to meet Ahaz, you and She'ar-jash'ub your son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller's Field, 4: and say to him, `Take heed, be quiet, do not fear, and do not let your heart be faint because of these two smoldering stumps of firebrands, at the fierce anger of Rezin and Syria and the son of Remali'ah. 5: Because Syria, with E'phraim and the son of Remali'ah, has devised evil against you, saying, 6: "Let us go up against Judah and terrify it, and let us conquer it for ourselves, and set up the son of Ta'be-el as king in the midst of it," 7: thus says the Lord GOD: It shall not stand, and it shall not come to pass.
    8: For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin. (Within sixty-five years E'phraim will be broken to pieces so that it will no longer be a people.) 9: And the head of E'phraim is Sama'ria, and the head of Sama'ria is the son of Remali'ah. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established.'" 10: Again the LORD spoke to Ahaz,
    11: "Ask a sign of the LORD your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven." 12: But Ahaz said, "I will not ask, and I will not put the LORD to the test." 13: And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

    We see here in Isaiah 7, that king Achaz, the king of Judah, is afraid of 2 neighboring kings.
    It is important to know that after the death of king Solomo the kingdom of Israel split up into two parts; into the kingdom of Judah, and the kingdom of Israel.
    The kingdom om Judah was made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and a part of the Levites. The kingdom of Israel was made up of the other ten tribes.
    Achaz was king over Judah, and in this prophecy the king of Israel is Pekah, the son of Remaliah.
    And Pekah had made a covenant with the king of Syria, called Resin, to attack together the kingdom of Judah.
    This news caused king Achaz considerable stress, because he had a dark suspicion that things could very well turn out not so very rosy for him.
    Therefore God sent Isaiah to Achaz, in order to tell him that things would work out just fine for him. God tells Achaz that he will give him a sign. Here is the sign: "14: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el. 15: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted."

    God says that before the child of the young woman who is pregnant will grow up, the land of the two kings, Resin of Syria, and Pekah of Israel, will be deserted, that is devoid of people. Those two nations will be led into exile.
    So this is a sign for king Achaz, who lived about 700 years before JC.

    And the Bible tells us that this prophecy came true: "27: In the fifty-second year of Azari'ah king of Judah Pekah the son of Remali'ah began to reign over Israel in Sama'ria, and reigned twenty years. 28: And he did what was evil in the sight of the LORD; he did not depart from the sins of Jerobo'am the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin. 29: In the days of Pekah king of Israel Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria came and captured I'jon, A'bel-beth-ma'acah, Jan-o'ah, Kedesh, Hazor, Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naph'tali; and he carried the people captive to Assyria. 30: Then Hoshe'a the son of Elah made a conspiracy against Pekah the son of Remali'ah, and struck him down, and slew him, and reigned in his stead, in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzzi'ah."
    II Kings 15.

    We see here that the population of Israel indeed went into exile, and that the land of king Pekah was deserted.

    And here is what happened to Resin, the king of Syria:
    "6: At that time the king of Edom recovered Elath for Edom, and drove the men of Judah from Elath; and the E'domites came to Elath, where they dwell to this day. 7: So Ahaz sent messengers to Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria, saying, "I am your servant and your son. Come up, and rescue me from the hand of the king of Syria and from the hand of the king of Israel, who are attacking me." 8: Ahaz also took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the LORD and in the treasures of the king's house, and sent a present to the king of Assyria. 9: And the king of Assyria hearkened to him; the king of Assyria marched up against Damascus, and took it, carrying its people captive to Kir, and he killed Rezin."
    II Kings 16.

    So here we see that also the inhabitants of the land of King Resin went into exile, and also his land was deserted, in the days of Achaz.

    So God gave a sign to Achaz.

    In the days of Achaz.

    About 700 years before JC.

    So this prophecy has no bearing what so ever on the messiah, and NOWHERE in this prophecy is spoken about a virgin.

    These are only misconceptions of the NT.

    However, the NT brings this prophecy to Achaz as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 1 "21: she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins." 22: All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet: 23: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel".

    So what the NT does here, is take a text which does not speak about the messiah, rip it out of context, mistranslates it, (is says "young woman", and not "virgin") and then present it to us as a messianic prophecy.

    So one of the foundations of the Christian religion, the virgin birth, is based upon a mistranslated text which is ripped out of context and does NOT speak about the messiah.


    Eliyahu light unto the nations


    "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

    "All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5

    This message is sent to you from Mount Zion, Jerusalem, Israel.

    "From Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of God from Jerusalem." Isaiah 2:3, Micah 4:2
    Last edited by Elia; January 25th, 2011 at 10:34 AM.

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    Bs'd

    No Christian any comment on this one?

    Everybody agrees I'm right and the gospel is wrong?



    Eliyahu light unto the nations


    "Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

    "All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5

    This message is sent to you from Mount Zion, Jerusalem, Israel.

    "From Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Y-H-W-H from Jerusalem." Isaiah 2:3, Micah 4:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    God says that before the child of the young woman who is pregnant will grow up, the land of the two kings, Resin of Syria, and Pekah of Israel, will be deserted, that is devoid of people. Those two nations will be led into exile.
    So this is a sign for king Achaz, who lived about 700 years before JC.

    And the Bible tells us that this prophecy came true: "27: In the fifty-second year of Azari'ah king of Judah Pekah the son of Remali'ah began to reign over Israel in Sama'ria, and reigned twenty years. 28: And he did what was evil in the sight of the LORD; he did not depart from the sins of Jerobo'am the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin. 29: In the days of Pekah king of Israel Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria came and captured I'jon, A'bel-beth-ma'acah, Jan-o'ah, Kedesh, Hazor, Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naph'tali; and he carried the people captive to Assyria. 30: Then Hoshe'a the son of Elah made a conspiracy against Pekah the son of Remali'ah, and struck him down, and slew him, and reigned in his stead, in the twentieth year of Jotham the son of Uzzi'ah."
    II Kings 15.

    We see here that the population of Israel indeed went into exile, and that the land of king Pekah was deserted.

    And here is what happened to Resin, the king of Syria:
    "6: At that time the king of Edom recovered Elath for Edom, and drove the men of Judah from Elath; and the E'domites came to Elath, where they dwell to this day. 7: So Ahaz sent messengers to Tig'lath-pile'ser king of Assyria, saying, "I am your servant and your son. Come up, and rescue me from the hand of the king of Syria and from the hand of the king of Israel, who are attacking me." 8: Ahaz also took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the LORD and in the treasures of the king's house, and sent a present to the king of Assyria. 9: And the king of Assyria hearkened to him; the king of Assyria marched up against Damascus, and took it, carrying its people captive to Kir, and he killed Rezin."
    II Kings 16.

    So here we see that also the inhabitants of the land of King Resin went into exile, and also his land was deserted, in the days of Achaz.

    So God gave a sign to Achaz.

    In the days of Achaz.
    In the fulfillment, is there any mention of a child named Immanuel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    In the fulfillment, is there any mention of a child named Immanuel?
    Bs'd

    "5The LORD spake also unto me again, saying,

    6Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah's son;

    7Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks:

    8And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel." Is 8



    Eliyahu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd

    "5The LORD spake also unto me again, saying,

    6Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah's son;

    7Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks:

    8And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel." Is 8

    Eliyahu
    Are you saying Rezin and Remaliah's son is named Immanuel?

    Is there any extra-Biblical verification of this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    Are you saying Rezin and Remaliah's son is named Immanuel?

    Is there any extra-Biblical verification of this?
    Bs'd

    I'm not saying that, and neither is Isaiah saying that.

    Immanuel, is in Judah, and not in Israel, what can be seen by reading the text well.



    Eliyahu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd

    I'm not saying that, and neither is Isaiah saying that.

    Immanuel, is in Judah, and not in Israel, what can be seen by reading the text well.

    Eliyahu
    Then whose son was named Immanuel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    Then whose son was named Immanuel?
    Bs'd

    Either Isaiah's son or Achaz's son.


    Eliyahu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd

    Either Isaiah's son or Achaz's son.


    Eliyahu
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Untellectual
    In the fulfillment, is there any mention of a child named Immanuel?

    Bs'd

    "5The LORD spake also unto me again, saying,

    6Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah's son;

    7Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks:

    8And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel." Is 8



    Eliyahu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Untellectual
    In the fulfillment, is there any mention of a child named Immanuel?

    Bs'd

    "5The LORD spake also unto me again, saying,

    6Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly, and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah's son;

    7Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, even the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks:

    8And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel." Is 8



    Eliyahu
    Bs'd

    Are you trying to say something with this copy?



    Eliyahu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd

    Are you trying to say something with this copy?

    Eliyahu
    Sorry if it was confusing. I'm just saying you answered the original question now. Your first answer was:

    Quote:

    8And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel." Is 8
    So Immanuel is a land? But Immanuel was the name of a child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    Sorry if it was confusing. I'm just saying you answered the original question now. Your first answer was:

    Quote:

    So Immanuel is a land? But Immanuel was the name of a child.
    Bs'd

    Are you by any chance related to Joey?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd

    Are you by any chance related to Joey?
    I met him on TOL before I met you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Untellectual View Post
    So Immanuel is a land? But Immanuel was the name of a child.
    Bs'd

    Immanuel is not a land, but a child.


    Eliyahu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elia View Post
    Bs'd

    Immanuel is not a land, but a child.


    Eliyahu
    Is Immanuel a land?

    Quote:
    8And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel." Is 8
    Immanuel is a child, a son.

    Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

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