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  1. #46
    Over 500 post club nicholsmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascowboy View Post
    How many of you would say that you have changed...

    ...theologically, politically, etc....

    ...since you have been an active participator on TOL.
    Me. I have become a student of theology in my "spare" time TOL convinced me of the importance of learning more about the various theologies.

    Plus, though I was on the fence about it when I arrived, I have decided that, for the most part, OVTers are brothers and sisters in Christ.

    Politically, I haven't changed...
    Socially, I've made new friends

    Thanks.
    Thanks for asking.
    Futility: "More than at any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and hopelessness; the other, to total extinction. Let us pray that we will have the wisdom to choose correctly. I speak, by the way, not with any sense of futility, but with a panicky conviction of the absolute meaninglessness of existence."
    - Woody Allen

    Hope:
    Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
    Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthyŚmeditate on these things.
    Philippians 4:6-8

  2. #47
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    I think I'm becoming a little less combative...okay, so it's a recent shift...okay, so a really, really recent shift. You want to make something out of it?

    Well, the last time I engaged ASCon I found I wasn't half as interested in beating him with the clever stick as I was in simply answering. Maybe there's some progress there.

    And being here concentrated my religious studies while actually widening my reading net, which is a very good thing. I've learned quite a bit speaking with some of you, sharpened my own positions, altered a few misunderstandings, and confirmed my decision to remain rooted in the salvific and less actively involved in the side bar debates that split and weaken the Body, to my mind.

    Politically I'm about where I started, though I suspect I see more of the right's side than I did prior, given most of my friends were either to my left or moderates...my oldest friend notwithstanding (he'd eye John Birch with suspicion).

    I count that as a modest, but significant bit of growth owed in large part to this place and you people...
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







  3. #48
    LIFETIME MEMBER vegascowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyArnold View Post
    Knight. Sorry. Ok, so, anyways, what have I learned at TOL? Oh, I got it. This is going to sound sarcastic, but it's not. I've learned to try to stay on topic while on TOL. It is not that I try getting off-topic on purpose. I love rabbits and rabbit-trails. But I guess TOL is teaching me to better stay on topic, to better communicate, to not be too mean while arguing, to not make fun of people while talking, to not accidentally call certain people a little dirty, and to not intentionally hijack threads. So those are some of the things I'm learning on TOL, as we speak. Anybody else learning these things, too?
    This is all very good, I think. I, too, have a hard time staying on topic. (See, I'm doing it again...) This was true even when I was in school. I have far too many interests. Perhaps this is my problem. TOL is a good place to help a person refine and harness in their arguments. There are great tools to use and lessons to be learned here to enable someone to become a better writer and argumentarian. Some (myself included) don't often use the tools that are to be found, but they are there, nevertheless.

    One thing (and there are many!) that TOL has taught me is that people do not always take your meaning from your words as you intended it to be taken. You can try your mightiest to say your piece clearly, only to encounter a lot of "blank stares." And some things that you are sure will convey your idea with power and convention are barely glossed over.

    TOL is like no other forum on the internet, and that is a good thing. I truly love being here, and I find myself missing it on the days when I am away (even though I wouldn't exchange the time spent with my wife and children for anything).

    TOL has taught me about humility. Obviously I have a great deal more learning ahead of me.
    The L-rd bless you and keep you;
    The L-rd make his face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The L-rd lift up his countenance upon you,
    And give you peace.



    Abortion is murder. Period.

  4. #49
    LIFETIME MEMBER vegascowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    ...you people...
    You people?? Must you always be so accusatory?
    The L-rd bless you and keep you;
    The L-rd make his face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The L-rd lift up his countenance upon you,
    And give you peace.



    Abortion is murder. Period.

  5. #50
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascowboy View Post
    This is all very good, I think. I, too, have a hard time staying on topic. (See, I'm doing it again...)
    Rabbit trails are okay sometimes. I occasionally take them myself. In fact... sometimes the rabbit trail is the most interesting part of the thread. Yet some folks hijack every thread they participate in and that can be frustrating (you are not one of those folks).
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    He [JoeyA] isn't in the Body of Christ, so yeah, he is in danger of hell-fire.
    Clarify please.

  7. #52
    Over 1000 post club Dena's Avatar
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    I've also learned more about the atheist perspective and I tend to get along with atheists more so than Christians. It used to bother me greatly that my husband is an atheist but I really don't care anymore. I'm not sure if this had something to do with TOL or if it was just a natural progression. I honestly think the atheistic viewpoint is entirely logical it's just not my own viewpoint. I still don't like Hitchens. He's annoying and rude.

  8. #53
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholsmom View Post
    Plus, though I was on the fence about it when I arrived, I have decided that, for the most part, OVTers are brothers and sisters in Christ.
    You decided? Or God decided that you decide?

    We love you settled viewers as well.
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascowboy View Post
    This is all very good, I think. I, too, have a hard time staying on topic. (See, I'm doing it again...) This was true even when I was in school. I have far too many interests. Perhaps this is my problem. TOL is a good place to help a person refine and harness in their arguments. There are great tools to use and lessons to be learned here to enable a someone to become a better writer and argumentarian. Some (myself included) don't often use the tools that are to be found, but they are there, nevertheless.

    One thing (and there are many!) that TOL has taught me is that people do not always take your meaning from your words as you intended it to be taken. You can try your mightiest to say your piece clearly, only to encounter a lot of "blank stares." And some things that you are sure will convey your idea with power and convention are barely glossed over.

    TOL has taught me about humility. Obviously I have a great deal more learning ahead of me.


    Cowboy, right. Words have a life of their own. If I say tiger. You might start thinking about dolphins. Just kidding. I'm exaggerating, to an extent, to make a point. But for me, I get off topic because I have this ability to relate, to connect everything with everything, to see the similarities, the bonds, the connections, between each topic, between everything and everything. For example, I should just start a thread to show people how crazy I am, because I ask people, in real life, to give me two random things, and I'll connect them together with my crazy logic and my ability to connect things, together.






    Both Town Heretic and Knight have mentioned that they are both less into getting their last words in, or less into getting too consumed or too involved. I'm learning those things, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I think I'm becoming a little less combative...okay, so it's a recent shift...okay, so a really, really recent shift. You want to make something out of it?

    Well, the last time I engaged ASCon I found I wasn't half as interested in beating him with the clever stick as I was in simply answering. Maybe there's some progress there.

    And being here concentrated my religious studies while actually widening my reading net, which is a very good thing. I've learned quite a bit speaking with some of you, sharpened my own positions, altered a few misunderstandings, and confirmed my decision to remain rooted in the salvific and less actively involved in the side bar debates that split and weaken the Body, to my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Rabbit trails are okay sometimes. I occasionally take them myself. In fact... sometimes the rabbit trail is the most interesting part of the thread. Yet some folks hijack every thread they participate in and that can be frustrating (you are not one of those folks).
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    In the past 14 years I have changed dramatically. I have become far less concerned about winning every argument and more concerned about just stating my beliefs on any given topic. There was a time not so long ago that I felt I needed to have the last word in every TOL debate, but now I really don't care if I have the last word. I prefer to state my case based on the facts as I see them and then... let the chips fall where they may.


    TOL has also encouraged me to quote scripture references, like John 3:16. I mean, any verse, for that matter, because you just have to hover over the verse and the verse pops up in a small yellow box. Do you guys have that, too. Or you just click on the Bible verse and it takes you to it. Then you can read it, for those who don't want to read a real one, people like me. But that's cool. And if you want to edit the verses, go to advance, in order to keep the verses a hyperlink, so that people like me can just click on them or hover over them, and if there's more than one verse, then just use commas, like this: Romans 7:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. Instead of just Romans 7:1-17. So, I've learned these things, too, on TOL.
    Last edited by JoeyArnold; January 19th, 2011 at 06:24 PM.

  10. #55
    LIFETIME MEMBER vegascowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholsmom View Post
    OVTers
    I admit I am unfamiliar with that term...

    Thanks for asking.
    Thanks for answering!
    The L-rd bless you and keep you;
    The L-rd make his face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The L-rd lift up his countenance upon you,
    And give you peace.



    Abortion is murder. Period.

  11. #56
    Over 1000 post club Dena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascowboy View Post
    I admit I am unfamiliar with that term...
    I'm thinking it has something to do with Open Theism?

  12. #57
    Journeyman Katie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascowboy View Post
    How many of you would say that you have changed...

    ...theologically, politically, etc....

    ...since you have been an active participator on TOL.


    NOTE: This change need not be as a direct result of being on TOL (through the ideas and words of others), although those stories, I think, would be the most interesting.

    Thanks.
    I wouldn't say I have "changed" necessarily ... but I have come to realize that arguing some things are just unnecessary and kind of like the "side attractions" from the main attraction ... that being, life.

    Some of the things that are being argued over really seem rather silly to me (and I do not mean to be condescending) ... I am not sure of the point except to make those arguing them feel better about themselves (???), when in reality, we each (being 'chosen' to be in life itself) are already important enough, or so I had thought. Change for the good is at hand only when the trivial matters are let go of ... and I am almost afraid to admit that I do not see the trivial matters being let go of anytime soon (except that I let them go personally). Thus, my perspective seems to be shifting .... again. But not all change is bad, and can actually be at least for the good of the individual, ie ... me.
    May Hashem bless you and keep watch over you;
    May Hashem make His Presence enlighten you, and may He be kind to you;
    May Hashem bestow favor on you, and grant you peace.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    I wouldn't say I have "changed" necessarily ... but I have come to realize that arguing some things are just unnecessary and kind of like the "side attractions" from the main attraction ... that being, life.

    Some of the things that are being argued over really seem rather silly to me (and I do not mean to be condescending) ... I am not sure of the point except to make those arguing them feel better about themselves (???), when in reality, we each (being 'chosen' to be in life itself) are already important enough, or so I had thought. Change for the good is at hand only when the trivial matters are let go of ... and I am almost afraid to admit that I do not see the trivial matters being let go of anytime soon (except that I let them go personally). Thus, my perspective seems to be shifting .... again. But not all change is bad, and can actually be at least for the good of the individual, ie ... me.


    I'm learning that TOL has people that think that certain things are only of trivial pursuit, or of meaningless rabbit trails. I believe that most things can be trivial, to an extent, in some ways, when not connected or applied, or understood, or thought through, properly. I believe that some questions or ideas can be dumb, but only in a way, to an extent, if done in a bad way or with the wrong heart. Because I believe that God is the creator to all trivia, and that is why all trivia matters. But I am learning on TOL, that not everybody agrees with me on that.

  14. #59
    Old Timer Nydhogg's Avatar
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    I've become more of an extremist.

  15. #60
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    I used to think Christians, even fundies, were decent human beings.

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