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Thread: Changed by TOL

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    LIFETIME MEMBER vegascowboy's Avatar
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    Changed by TOL

    How many of you would say that you have changed...

    ...theologically, politically, etc....

    ...since you have been an active participator on TOL.


    NOTE: This change need not be as a direct result of being on TOL (through the ideas and words of others), although those stories, I think, would be the most interesting.

    Thanks.
    The L-rd bless you and keep you;
    The L-rd make his face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The L-rd lift up his countenance upon you,
    And give you peace.



    Abortion is murder. Period.

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    Proverbs 31:10 ebenz47037's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascowboy View Post
    How many of you would say that you have changed...

    ...theologically, politically, etc....

    ...since you have been an active participator on TOL.


    NOTE: This change need not be as a direct result of being on TOL (through the ideas and words of others), although those stories, I think, would be the most interesting.

    Thanks.
    I have. I used to believe in full-blown predestination. When my husband passed away, in 1999, I almost turned away from God because I believed that a God who would take a man away from a young wife with a nine year old daughter wasn't the God I wanted to serve. It was thanks to Knight, Sozo/ghost, Lion, Becky, Bob B, Bob Enyart, Bob Hill, Turbo, and Poly that I started to realize that God doesn't micromanage us to the last seconds of our lives. Basically, I went from a Calvinist to an open theist.

    I also changed a little politically. I was already conservative when I joined TOL. But, since joining, I've become what my family likes to call a "right-wing fanatic."
    They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles. -- Isaiah 40:31

    Vegetarian - Indian word for lousy hunter



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    LIFETIME MEMBER vegascowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebenz47037 View Post
    I have. I used to believe in full-blown predestination. When my husband passed away, in 1999, I almost turned away from God because I believed that a God who would take a man away from a young wife with a nine year old daughter wasn't the God I wanted to serve. It was thanks to Knight, Sozo/ghost, Lion, Becky, Bob B, Bob Enyart, Bob Hill, Turbo, and Poly that I started to realize that God doesn't micromanage us to the last seconds of our lives. Basically, I went from a Calvinist to an open theist.

    I also changed a little politically. I was already conservative when I joined TOL. But, since joining, I've become what my family likes to call a "right-wing fanatic."
    I am learning all about this as I make my way through your testimony. Thank you for sharing, eb!
    The L-rd bless you and keep you;
    The L-rd make his face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The L-rd lift up his countenance upon you,
    And give you peace.



    Abortion is murder. Period.

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    Over 3000 post club zoo22's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about that recently. TOL's changed me. I'm more willing to listen and try to hear other people, I'm more likely to investigate deeper before jumping to conclusions, more likely to (try to) look before I leap. I'm less willing to get involved in discussions which I know there'll be nothing but disagreement; those endless disagreements just seem increasingly pointless (though I haven't managed yet to completely strike them out). My politics have changed a bit, some further right, mostly further left, though I've changed the way I approach it. There are specific things that have changed in ways I think of people, and about the ways our minds work.

    I'm also more discouraged. But on the flipside, there's a higher encouragement level at the positive end... Meaning I'm more discouraged overall, but the places (people) I have found encouragement from are brighter.
    "There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"

    "In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education

    Don't you know
    That it ain't a crime
    If all the squares
    And the junkmen
    Think you're out of line


    TH:

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    LIFETIME MEMBER vegascowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoo22 View Post
    I'm also more discouraged. But on the flipside, there's a higher encouragement level at the positive end... Meaning I'm more discouraged overall, but the places (people) I have found encouragement from are brighter.
    Are those people that you mentioned still walking the halls of TOL?
    The L-rd bless you and keep you;
    The L-rd make his face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The L-rd lift up his countenance upon you,
    And give you peace.



    Abortion is murder. Period.

  8. #6
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Not so much changed as reinforced. I have looked at things closer. Like prophecy regarding Israel, on urging from Clete and StP. And doing a better job of seperating what Paul said from those things.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    Over 3000 post club zoo22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascowboy View Post
    Are those people that you mentioned still walking the halls of TOL?
    Some of them, yes, some no. And I'm sure more will continue to join the fray.
    "There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"

    "In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education

    Don't you know
    That it ain't a crime
    If all the squares
    And the junkmen
    Think you're out of line


    TH:

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    I have learned more about what the Bible has to say, and what men say (opinions, perspectives).
    John 1:40-41 NASB, John 1:49 NASB - 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He found first his own brother Simon and said to him, "We have found the Messiah" (which translated means Christ). 49 - Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

  12. #9
    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebenz47037 View Post
    I have. I used to believe in full-blown predestination. When my husband passed away, in 1999, I almost turned away from God because I believed that a God who would take a man away from a young wife with a nine year old daughter wasn't the God I wanted to serve. It was thanks to Knight, Sozo/ghost, Lion, Becky, Bob B, Bob Enyart, Bob Hill, Turbo, and Poly that I started to realize that God doesn't micromanage us to the last seconds of our lives. Basically, I went from a Calvinist to an open theist.

    I also changed a little politically. I was already conservative when I joined TOL. But, since joining, I've become what my family likes to call a "right-wing fanatic."
    POTD
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    How have I changed?

    Like zoo, I have learned to listen more than I used to. In the past, I thought I listened to others, but as I engaged several individuals in discussion, and debate, I found that I was mostly being defensive. There are two examples that spring to mind immediately. When I first arrived at TOL, I thought that if I could just reason with a person enough, then they would lay down their arms and accept Jesus Christ. I was quite frankly wrong. Townie was very helpful in this regard because in every thread where we engaged the unbelieving person together he would always, without fail, point out that it was impossible to objectively satisfy the inquiry and, when asked, the inquirer would be unable to produce an objective standard which would settle the matter. The second example came from discussions I had with elohiym and Selaphiel about the doctrine of hell.

    The problem in both cases (in all the cases where I've been wrong) was about the assumptions I carried into the conversation. Instead of looking at all sides of an idea, I had a tendency to keep my blinders in place because it was more comfortable. I'm convinced that changing someone's way of thinking, shifting a paradigm, is about like moving a mountain by faith.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER vegascowboy's Avatar
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    Several of you have now said that you have become, in some respects, more tolerant of diverse opinion.

    Are there any here that would say (or be willing to admit) that the opposite is true? Have any of you become less tolerant...either politically or with regard to religion?
    The L-rd bless you and keep you;
    The L-rd make his face shine upon you,
    And be gracious to you;
    The L-rd lift up his countenance upon you,
    And give you peace.



    Abortion is murder. Period.

  16. #12
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegascowboy View Post
    Are there any here that would say (or be willing to admit) that the opposite is true? Have any of you become less tolerant...either politically or with regard to religion?
    Without fail. Many are now exposed as not being just wrong or not knowing to, they do no better, and do not care. That makes them evil.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    ...then I woke up. Knight's Avatar
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    In the past 14 years I have changed dramatically. I have become far less concerned about winning every argument and more concerned about just stating my beliefs on any given topic. There was a time not so long ago that I felt I needed to have the last word in every TOL debate, but now I really don't care if I have the last word. I prefer to state my case based on the facts as I see them and then... let the chips fall where they may.
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    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
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    I have learned a lot about the bible
    but
    being a Catholic you would expect that

    I have become more tolerant of most views
    except
    those who say they are really against abortion
    but
    will not vote republican
    and
    that I will never tolerate
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

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    Patron Saint of SMACK Delmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    In the past 14 years I have changed dramatically. I have become far less concerned about winning every argument and more concerned about just stating my beliefs on any given topic. There was a time not so long ago that I felt I needed to have the last word in every TOL debate, but now I really don't care if I have the last word. I prefer to state my case based on the facts as I see them and then... let the chips fall where they may.

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