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Thread: The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    God decreed that Adam would fall, and decreed that God the Son would be the "Lamb of God," before the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8; I Peter 1:20)

    "If anyone has an ear, let him hear." Revelation 13:9
    God did not decree the Fall. This is contrary to His intentions, purposes, will, desires. This is why He was grieved to the core when it happened. Mormons say that it was decreed and necessary. You are in bad company.

    The plan of redemption was a contingency that was implemented after vs before the Fall. It was decreed from eternity past, but only implemented in Gen. 3 (and actualized in the first century). The potential plan became certain when the Fall was actual, not before. Decretal views are philosophical, Calvinistic, not biblical (Calvinists also differ on the order of decrees...pure speculation since it is not biblical).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

  2. #47
    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    God did not decree the Fall. This is contrary to His intentions, purposes, will, desires.
    All of God's intentions, purposes, will, and desires are being achieved despite the fall of Adam.




    The plan of redemption was a contingency that was implemented after vs before the Fall. It was decreed from eternity past, but only implemented in Gen. 3
    Illogical.
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    All of God's intentions, purposes, will, and desires are being achieved despite the fall of Adam.






    Illogical.
    There is a big difference between desiring, causing, intending evil or the Fall and responding to it with a perfect plan of redemption, restoration, mitigation, etc.

    Your hang up to make everything God's will leads to impugnment of His character and ways.

    As a paramedic or a patient, I do not cause illness and injury in order to bring good out of it. I respond to the contingency that was not intentional, meritorious, desired and mitigate it to bring good out of bad. Causing or desiring bad to show off my skills is not loving, wise, good, right.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

  4. #49
    Journeyman flintstoned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    God decreed that Adam would fall, and decreed that God the Son would be the "Lamb of God," before the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8; I Peter 1:20)

    "If anyone has an ear, let him hear." Revelation 13:9
    So why then did god feel the need to kill off the world's population(except for Noah and his family)? What purpose did THAT serve?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Not if one is of the Lost Sheep of Israel. Paul declares that God hath rasied up unto Israel a Saviour acts 13:

    23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    He as Saviour giveth Israel repentace and forgiveness of sins

    Acts 5:

    31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Israel means His Chosen People, Jew or Gentile.
    Nope. Israel always means bloodline Israel and Gentile always means the rest of the people in the world.

    The elect in Mt.24 means bloodline, believing Israel, not the Jew/gentile church.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by flintstoned View Post
    So why then did god feel the need to kill off the world's population(except for Noah and his family)? What purpose did THAT serve?
    Justice and the prevention of a cancer that would have destroyed God's people and humanity.

    If a serial killer is shooting up a mall, it would be unloving and unwise for the police not to terminate him.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

  7. #52
    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godrulz View Post
    There is a big difference between desiring, causing, intending evil or the Fall and responding to it with a perfect plan of redemption, restoration, mitigation, etc.
    What I say!

    God did not "respond" to the fall with a plan of redemption, but rather decreed the fall to display and demonstrate the redemptive grace and such qualities found only in the Son of God; Jesus Christ.



    As a paramedic or a patient, I do not cause illness and injury in order to bring good out of it. I respond to the contingency that was not intentional, meritorious, desired and mitigate it to bring good out of bad. Causing or desiring bad to show off my skills is not loving, wise, good, right.
    Poor analogy, in that you are not the creator of any you deal with.

    The "victims" whom you treat, are not the original works of your hands, and so your "works of mercy" cannot possibly or legitimately be compared to those of ALMIGHTY GOD!

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

  8. #53
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainless moron View Post
    Get what? That people have doubts?
    There are no doubts, only rebellion.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    What I say!

    God did not "respond" to the fall with a plan of redemption, but rather decreed the fall to display and demonstrate the redemptive grace and such qualities found only in the Son of God; Jesus Christ.





    Poor analogy, in that you are not the creator of any you deal with.

    The "victims" whom you treat, are not the original works of your hands, and so your "works of mercy" cannot possibly or legitimately be compared to those of ALMIGHTY GOD!

    Nang

    God does not decree sin, evil, suffering. That would be Satan, not God. It is contrary to God's nature to do this. If he decreed it, why was he so grieved by it and why did it cost the cross? God is not the author of sin, sickness, suffering, evil, destruction, etc. The consequences are the result of man's free will. Likewise, God created Lucifer, not Satan. God did not make Judas a puppet to fulfill a plan.

    God demonstrates grace and redemption despite the Fall and because of it. His grace and love are still revealed and true even if Hitler does not kill millions (another thing contrary to God's will, not decreed by it).

    Calvinism is odious, not glorious. You are twisting facts to support your flawed ideas. There are better, more biblical, explanations to these things.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

  10. #55
    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    No myth!

    1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.


    By posting this scripture, I am not saying that all men will be saved, only that provision is made for all.

  11. #56
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Clueless View Post
    There are no doubts, only rebellion.
    Well that's about as reasoned and thought out a response as I would expect from you. Cos yeah Nick, everyone who doesn't believe the same as yourself are deliberately 'shaking their fists' and 'choosing' to go to eternal suffering. You really have no clue whatsoever...

    Well this is fun isn't it?


  12. #57
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    No myth!

    1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.


    By posting this scripture, I am not saying that all men will be saved, only that provision is made for all.
    That's ok. You don't need to say it. The verse says it for you.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


  13. #58
    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    What I say!

    God did not "respond" to the fall with a plan of redemption, but rather decreed the fall to display and demonstrate the redemptive grace and such qualities found only in the Son of God; Jesus Christ.





    Poor analogy, in that you are not the creator of any you deal with.

    The "victims" whom you treat, are not the original works of your hands, and so your "works of mercy" cannot possibly or legitimately be compared to those of ALMIGHTY GOD!

    Nang
    So basically God creates people predestined to be the elect and others fitted for destruction in order to display His justice to the elect? Am I getting the basic gist of this correct?

    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Journeyman horiturk's Avatar
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    i'll say it again,i'm only interested in what jesus said.....everyone else making claims in the bible is speculation. if he gave private guru initiatic instructions to the disciples there would have been more recorded.

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    steko:

    Nope. Israel always means bloodline Israel
    No it does not. Rom 9:6


    6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel[Spiritual], which are of Israel[bloodline]:
    Last edited by beloved57; February 11th, 2014 at 01:02 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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