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Thread: The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

  1. #16
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    IT ain't no myth!

    Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned--every one--to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
    Where do you see in that verse where it says Christ died for all men without exception ?

    This passage is speaking about all the Sheep, Gods People.

    Isa 53:

    8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    The Prophet did not mean the amakelites, the philistines and every human being in the world.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Where do you see in that verse where it says Christ died for all men without exception ?

    This passage is speaking about all the Sheep, Gods People.

    Isa 53:

    8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    The Prophet did not mean the amakelites, the philistines and every human being in the world.
    Yes, there is no question that Isaiah is speaking of the Israelites.
    But have they all obtained salvation through HIS work of the cross?
    I don't think so. Nevertheless it says 'all'.
    So it seems to me that provision was made for all, but not all have benefited.

    What event obtains your salvation?
    Is it an event other than the one spoken of by Isaiah?
    Or is it the same one?
    Obviously it's the same one or Christ would have to make substitution more than once.
    The Church, composed of Jew and Gentile with equality is a mystery in the OT.
    Though Isaiah is speaking specifically about his brethren, the atonement is provided for all of Adam.
    If Isaiah's words mean only the sins of Israel were laid on him then you and I are yet in our sins.

    Heb 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone

    Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

    1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


    What does, "the sins of the whole world" mean?

    2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them,

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    This message is deleted and closed.
    Last edited by ThePresbyteers; November 25th, 2010 at 06:05 AM.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen/elect one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

    The Messiah/Jesus is GOD's 'elect'.

    We become part of the election when we turn to GOD and trust in Christ's work upon the cross.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen/elect one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

    The Messiah/Jesus is GOD's 'elect'.

    We become part of the election when we turn to GOD and trust in Christ's work upon the cross.

    Election is in Christ, conditional, corporate. Election is not decretal, individual, eternal.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    Journeyman Seydlitz77's Avatar
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    I think we are confusing the condition of Salvation with the offer of Salvation.

    Salvation is freely offered to everyone without price (Isaiah 55:1 KJV) but the offer of salvation does not save you the offer only gives you the ability to choose salvation and be saved.

    God is not partial nor is He a respecter persons. Christ died so that all men could be offered salvation but we know that not all men will be saved, many will exercise their freedom to choose another path.

    By giving His Son God has done all He can to save us, from that point on Salvation is completely our responsibility to accept and embrace. To say that even one man did not have the offer of salvation made to them is to call God a partial being who is not worthy of worship.

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    I concur that love is impartial.

    2 Nephi 25:23? vs Eph. 2:8-10; Titus 3:5; Jn. 3:16!

    http://carm.org/gospel-according-to-mormonism

    Minimizing the perfection/holiness of God and maximizing the goodness of man leads to works salvation vs His finished work alone.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePresbyteers View Post
    All mankind reject. Don't you see why God had to step in and save the Elects. If He didn't do that, all will go to hell. Simple truths that a child can understand. The unregenrates reject. God didn't cause them to. God caused the elects to be saved by giving them the "gift of faith". What is there not to understand? All mankind didn't want the gift of faith so God stepped in a gave the Elects the gift of faith. The rest rejects just as God foresaw and predestined. Those that reject are the ones that say all is saved and going to Heaven. They printed their own ticket to Heaven but made it for the wrong theater.
    So what's to stop God doing this for everyone then? What marks you or any of the other 'elect' so special as to warrant sparing from eternal misery while your neighbour resides in there for ever? You talk about 'simple truths' as if 'rejection' equates to 'volitional outright rebellion' since birth or some such. Without this 'gift' you'd be just as 'unregenerate' as anyone else even though according to Nang she's no more deserving 'than those predestined to hell'. Furthermore she has no concrete answer as to the fates of the unborn and infants under such a doctrine either.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    steko:

    Yes, there is no question that Isaiah is speaking of the Israelites.
    Only some of them, the remnant of the election of grace. Isaiah knew there was only a remnant in Israel that belonged to God as His People. Isa 1:

    9Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

    Except for that very small remnant, the rest of the jews had no more a relationship with God as the sodomites had.

    The rest of the sheep would be the gentile sheep as in Jn 10:16 That Christ died for, but all is still limited to His Sheep !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    sey:

    I think we are confusing the condition of Salvation with the offer of Salvation.
    Another Myth, that salvation is offered, sorry, but its given to Gods Sheep.

    Jn 10:


    27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

    28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    Jn 17:


    2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Isa 42:1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen/elect one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.

    The Messiah/Jesus is GOD's 'elect'.

    We become part of the election when we turn to GOD and trust in Christ's work upon the cross.
    Jesus election is the election of His body as well !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  12. #27
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    steko:


    Heb 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone

    Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

    1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


    What does, "the sins of the whole world" mean?

    2Co 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them,
    None of these verses states that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, in fact, they all refer to His Sheep.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seydlitz77 View Post
    I think we are confusing the condition of Salvation with the offer of Salvation.

    Salvation is freely offered to everyone without price (Isaiah 55:1 KJV) but the offer of salvation does not save you the offer only gives you the ability to choose salvation and be saved.

    God is not partial nor is He a respecter persons. Christ died so that all men could be offered salvation but we know that not all men will be saved, many will exercise their freedom to choose another path.

    By giving His Son God has done all He can to save us, from that point on Salvation is completely our responsibility to accept and embrace. To say that even one man did not have the offer of salvation made to them is to call God a partial being who is not worthy of worship.
    Spot on correct. Well put. And I will never get it. How hard is it to stand up and say I am guilty, and need a savior? I will never get it.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    False Christ's

    Matt 24:24

    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    The False Christs here means, the different denominations saying we serve and witness of the True Christ. Also the false Christ, is that Christ that is presented that He loved of all of humanity, and died for all of humanity without exception, to give them a chance at getting saved.

    Thats a False Christ. If anyone believes that lie, that Christ died for everyones sins in the world without exception, you have been deceived, and unless God gives you repentance, you are on your way to hell, forever !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to beloved57 For Your Post:

    Nanja (October 13th, 2017)

  16. #30
    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    steko:




    None of these verses states that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, in fact, they all refer to His Sheep.
    If Jesus only died for the lost sheep of Israel, then we are yet in our sins and have no hope.

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