God's Truth
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CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
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God's Truth
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On the Sabbath day, the law said that no one could work, not to even lift objects. Do you see the correlation from Sabbath day no works compared to no works for being saved?
Jesus is our Sabbath rest, we are saved by faith, and not of by works---not of ‘not of by obedience’---rather, not of the works of the law, such as the purification works.
We are saved by Jesus' blood making us clean and not by our doing the ceremonial/purification works, which are various external baths, adherence to a special diets, and the sacrifice of animals, going to the temple, seeing a priest, etc.
A NO WORK rule was in place for the Sabbath day. Faith and NO PURIFICATION/CEREMONIAL WORKS save us; Jesus says it is UNLAWFUL to do evil on the NO WORK day of the Sabbath, and Jesus said it was LAWFUL to do good on the NO WORK day of the Sabbath, see Luke 6:9.
That PROVES that we STILL HAVE TO OBEY JESUS AND DO RIGHT AND ABSTAIN FROM EVIL to get saved, and to stay saved.
Jesus fulfilled it just as he said.
Jesus is our Sabbath Rest, and we obey the Sabbath by obeying Jesus.
Do you really think that Jesus doesn’t want you to pick up a chair in your house according to the old law for the Sabbath? I hardly think that you are anyone is obeying the rules for the Sabbath as given in the Old Testament.
There seems to be something you did not see about the Gentile Galatians.
The JEWS were trying to get them to get circumcised and observe the Sabbath and other special days.
Read how Paul speaks of Peter being afraid of those Jews.
Galatians 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.
Galatians 2:13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
The Jews talked the Christian Galatians into observing special days. Observing special days was now worthless. Observing special days was even practiced by pagans in their form of worship to their false gods.
Read here how Paul pleads with them not to get CIRCUMCISED:
Galatians 5:2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
CONT.
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The Judizers converted the Galatians to follow the old law by observing special days and to get circumcised.
Acts 15:1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved."
Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses."
Galatians 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.
Galatians 2:13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
Paul says observing a special day is worthless.
He also says not to let anyone judge you by a Sabbath.
You are falsely judging others by the Sabbath.
You claim it is disobedience; yet, the disobedience is you judging others by a Sabbath.
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
God's Truth
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Jesus is our Sabbath Rest
Hebrews
A Sabbath-Rest for God's People
1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
"And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, who shall stand as a banner to the people; for the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious.'' Isaiah 11:10.
It is by grace that we are saved. The law has nothing to do with grace. So, of course, we can have grace without the law.
[h=1]Romans 8:2 King James Version (KJV)[/h]
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Hey again GT, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have provided some more comments below.
Ok thanks GT for the clarification. So you believe through the Spirit of God's grace we are to keep all God's 10 commandments through love like me. So where does it say JESUS is the Sabbath? As posted earlier the Sabbath according to the scriptures is a day *see Exodus 20:10 and Jesus is the lord of it *see Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28. Where is the scripture that says Jesus is a "Sabbath"? - There is none.
Which one of these scriptures say Jesus is the Sabbath? To me all I read here is that Jesus gives us rest as we believe and follow his word. Are we believing and following God's word by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments? The only ever definition I have ever found of "Sabbath" in God's 4th commandment is the 7th day of the week as shown in Exodus 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. God's 4th commandment is about remembering the God and creation and keeping the "seventh day" as a "holy day" of rest where no work is to be done. We cannot do this seven days a week or are we told to in God's 4th commandment.
Jesus is the living Word of God *John 1:1-4; 14. Can we obseve Jesus without believing and following God's Word?
GT, here I believe your mixing up the ceremonial "shadow laws" for remission of sin with God's 10 commandments as posted earlier which is what Colossians 2:11-17 and Hebrews 10:1-12 is discussing from the Mosaic book of the law *Exodus 24:7. As shown through the scriptures earlier Galatians 4 is to Gentile believers who observe the pagan practices of Astrology not God's 4th commandment as the Gentiles never had the 10 commandments before coming to JESUS. If you read all of Romans 14 you will see that there is nowhere in Romans 14 that is talking about God's 4th commandment. It is talking about days of eating and not eating (fasting) that men esteem over other days. No mention of the Sabbath there. Happy to discuss the detail of any of the scriptures we are discussing here. Just let me know? Or perhaps I will start a new thread on them latter.
Jesus is the passover. This is what I was sharing with you earlier in relation to the "annual ceremonial shadow sabbaths in feast days". Those point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant. The scriptures says in the new testament;
1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.
Now remember God's 4th commandment is not a "ceremonial shadow sabbath" it is one of God's 10 commandments that in the new covenant give us the knowledge of good and evil; Sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.
There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. Can you find me one? The Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment is only ever defined as the "seventh day" of the week that God "blessed" and set apart from all the other days of the week as a "holy day" of rest as a memorial of creation *Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 2:8-11.
Ok thanks GT for the clarification. So you believe through the Spirit of God's grace we are to keep all God's 10 commandments through love like me. So where does it say JESUS is the Sabbath? As posted earlier the Sabbath according to the scriptures is a day *see Exodus 20:10 and Jesus is the lord of it *see Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28. Where is the scripture that says Jesus is a "Sabbath"? - There is none.
Which one of these scriptures say Jesus is the Sabbath? To me all I read here is that Jesus gives us rest as we believe and follow his word. Are we believing and following God's word by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments? The only ever definition I have ever found of "Sabbath" in God's 4th commandment is the 7th day of the week as shown in Exodus 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. God's 4th commandment is about remembering the God and creation and keeping the "seventh day" as a "holy day" of rest where no work is to be done. We cannot do this seven days a week or are we told to in God's 4th commandment.
Jesus is the living Word of God *John 1:1-4; 14. Can we obseve Jesus without believing and following God's Word?
GT, here I believe your mixing up the ceremonial "shadow laws" for remission of sin with God's 10 commandments as posted earlier which is what Colossians 2:11-17 and Hebrews 10:1-12 is discussing from the Mosaic book of the law *Exodus 24:7. As shown through the scriptures earlier Galatians 4 is to Gentile believers who observe the pagan practices of Astrology not God's 4th commandment as the Gentiles never had the 10 commandments before coming to JESUS. If you read all of Romans 14 you will see that there is nowhere in Romans 14 that is talking about God's 4th commandment. It is talking about days of eating and not eating (fasting) that men esteem over other days. No mention of the Sabbath there. Happy to discuss the detail of any of the scriptures we are discussing here. Just let me know? Or perhaps I will start a new thread on them latter.
Jesus is the passover. This is what I was sharing with you earlier in relation to the "annual ceremonial shadow sabbaths in feast days". Those point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant. The scriptures says in the new testament;
1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.
Now remember God's 4th commandment is not a "ceremonial shadow sabbath" it is one of God's 10 commandments that in the new covenant give us the knowledge of good and evil; Sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.
There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. Can you find me one? The Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment is only ever defined as the "seventh day" of the week that God "blessed" and set apart from all the other days of the week as a "holy day" of rest as a memorial of creation *Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 2:8-11.
Jesus tells us how to get saved, and then after we are saved we are to continue to do what Jesus says.
There are some “must’, and “unless’ and ‘if’ things to get saved Here are just some:
Unless
…unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven;Matthew 18:3
…unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart;Matthew 18:35
…unless you repent, you too will all perish; Luke 13:3
If
...if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; Matthew 6:14
...if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins; Matthew 6:15
...If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples; John 8:31
...if you do them you will be blessed;John 13:17
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love; John 15:10
...if you do what I command you are my friends; John 15:14
...if we obey His commands---we may know that we know Him; 1 John 2:3
That is right. The commands of Jesus are how we love each other. If you break a command then it is not love.
Loving each other is the Royal Law, and Peter and Paul teach us that.
CONT.
True so if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments are we doing what God says or not doing what God says? Also, if we are not doing what God's Word says are we living by faith or not living by faith? I do beleive also that many people do things out of ignorance because they have been taught things from many churches that may not be biblical and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his word but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he then expects us to believe and follow his Word *Acts 17:30-31; James 4:17. At this point if we reject God's Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-27.
The Royal Law is Love and is why JESUS says on these two great commandments of love to God and man - HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40
James says the same linking both Love to law here in Romans 13:8-10 as does James in James 2:8-12
God bless
Hey again GT, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have provided some more comments below.
Ok thanks GT for the clarification. So you believe through the Spirit of God's grace we are to keep all God's 10 commandments through love like me. So where does it say JESUS is the Sabbath? As posted earlier the Sabbath according to the scriptures is a day *see Exodus 20:10 and Jesus is the lord of it *see Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:27-28. Where is the scripture that says Jesus is a "Sabbath"? - There is none.
Which one of these scriptures say Jesus is the Sabbath? To me all I read here is that Jesus gives us rest as we believe and follow his word. Are we believing and following God's word by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments? The only ever definition I have ever found of "Sabbath" in God's 4th commandment is the 7th day of the week as shown in Exodus 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. God's 4th commandment is about remembering the God and creation and keeping the "seventh day" as a "holy day" of rest where no work is to be done. We cannot do this seven days a week or are we told to in God's 4th commandment.
Jesus is the living Word of God *John 1:1-4; 14. Can we obseve Jesus without believing and following God's Word?
GT, here I believe your mixing up the ceremonial "shadow laws" for remission of sin with God's 10 commandments as posted earlier which is what Colossians 2:11-17 and Hebrews 10:1-12 is discussing from the Mosaic book of the law *Exodus 24:7. As shown through the scriptures earlier Galatians 4 is to Gentile believers who observe the pagan practices of Astrology not God's 4th commandment as the Gentiles never had the 10 commandments before coming to JESUS. If you read all of Romans 14 you will see that there is nowhere in Romans 14 that is talking about God's 4th commandment. It is talking about days of eating and not eating (fasting) that men esteem over other days. No mention of the Sabbath there. Happy to discuss the detail of any of the scriptures we are discussing here. Just let me know? Or perhaps I will start a new thread on them latter.
Jesus is the passover. This is what I was sharing with you earlier in relation to the "annual ceremonial shadow sabbaths in feast days". Those point to Jesus and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant. The scriptures says in the new testament;
1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, as you are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.
Now remember God's 4th commandment is not a "ceremonial shadow sabbath" it is one of God's 10 commandments that in the new covenant give us the knowledge of good and evil; Sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break anyone of them according to the scriptures we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.
There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath. Can you find me one? The Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment is only ever defined as the "seventh day" of the week that God "blessed" and set apart from all the other days of the week as a "holy day" of rest as a memorial of creation *Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 2:8-11.
True so if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments are we doing what God says or not doing what God says? Also, if we are not doing what God's Word says are we living by faith or not living by faith? I do beleive also that many people do things out of ignorance because they have been taught things from many churches that may not be biblical and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin until he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his word but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word he then expects us to believe and follow his Word *Acts 17:30-31; James 4:17. At this point if we reject God's Word in order to continue in known unrepentant sin there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come which will devour the adversaries *Hebrews 10:26-27.
The Royal Law is Love and is why JESUS says on these two great commandments of love to God and man - HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40
James says the same linking both Love to law here in Romans 13:8-10 as does James in James 2:8-12
God bless
It is true we cannot do anything to save ourselves as I have shared earlier that I believe we are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *Ephesians 2:8. Obedience to God's law (10 Commandments) is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his word by faith that works by love. For me I believe God's Word teaches that salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *Romans 6:1-23; John 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the new covenant promise to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12; Philippians 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. Therefore based on the above scriptures although we only be God's grace, through faith alone, God gives us his grace for obedience to the faith...
Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.
There is no scriputure in God's Word anywhere that says Jesus is "the Sabbath" As posted earlier God's words defines and gives it's own definition to what the Sabbath is and the Word of God alone defines "the Sabbath" as the "seventh day" of the week which Jesus is the Lord or creator of...
Exodus 20:10, But THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD..
Mark 2:27-28 And he said to them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, AND NOT MAN FOR THE SABBATH
Matthew 12:8, For THE SON OF MAN IS LORD OF THE SABBATH DAY.
As you can see through the scriptures posted above God's 4th commandment Sabbath is defined in the scriptures as THE SEVENTH DAY of the week and it was made for man and Jesus is Lord or creator of the seventh day Sabbath. So how can Jesus be the Sabbath if the Sabbath is defined in the scriptures as the "seventh day" of the week and Jesus is Lord or creator of the "seventh day" of the week? If Jesus is the Sabbath that is the same as saying that Jesus created himself for man and that he is the Lord of himself. Can you see this dear GT? There is no scripture anywhere in God's Word that says or defines Jesus as the Sabbath.
Your reponse...
Indeed. Jesus did not fulfill God's laws however so that we are now free to break them. These same laws are to be fulfilled in those who believe and follow God's Word as they are forgiven and be faith to love walk in God's Spirit *Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4; Matthew 22:36-40; James 2:8-12.
There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath (see previous sections). No one rests in Jesus by not believing and following God's Word *Matthew 11:28-30; Hebrews 4:1-5. If we break anyone of God's 10 Commandments we are not beliving and following God's Word according to the scriptures *1 John 2:3-4. Sin which is defined in the scritures as not believing God's Word or breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *Romans 14:23; 1 John 3:4 is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10.
In the days of Jesus the religious teachers of the day had placed so many man made traditions around Sabbath keeping that it had become a burden to the people. It was though in their eyes MANKIND was made for the Sabbath. It was so bad in fact that these religious teachers were constantly looking for ways to accuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-2; 10; Mark 3:2'; Luke 6:1-2).
Jesus rebuked these religious teachers by saying that the Sabbath was made for MAN and NOT MAN for the SABBATH (Mark 2:27 and that he was the CREATOR or LORD of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28) and it was LAWFUL to do GOOD on the SABBATH (Matt 12:12)
Jesus did God's WORK on the Sabbath and so should we everyday but God's WORK is not the work we are commanded NOT to do on God's Sabbath for it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.
Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them who were with him, but only for the priests?
Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
This is what God's 4th commandment says...
Exodus 20 8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: 10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> 11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.
Doing GOD'S WORK is NOT what the 4th Commandment is talking about please read it.
God's 4th Commandments says we are NOT to do OUR OWN WORK. Yep NO secular business or paid work, no unnecessary domestic work, no buying and selling, shopping. This can be done on the other days of the week. God has made the SEVENTH DAY a HOLY DAY and we are to REST in HIM by FAITH in the LORD of the SABBATH. This is the 4th Commandment and one of the God's 10.
Actually no dear friend we were dicussing Galatians 4 which is talking about observing times back before the Gentile believers were Christians which the scriptures are in reference to their old pagan practices. There is no mention whatsoever of God's 4th commandment Sabbath in the whole book of Galatians. Can you show me the scripture? You cannot because there is no scripture in relation to God's 4th commandment Sabbath.
Circumcision is a part of the "shadow ceremonial laws' that point to a new heart by faith *Romans 2:28-29. Circumcision is not one of God's 10 commandments but one of the ceremonial laws of Moses from the Mosaic book of the law *Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 31:24-26. So this is not really relevant to our discussion. Paul actually finishes elswhere in regards to circumcition by saying...
1 Corinthians 7:19, Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.
Can you see this deat GT?
Actually dear GT. You did not really address this post or answer any of the questions asked of you in relaiton to Colossians 2. You simply moved on to another topic. No problem perhaps we can revisit Colossian 2 a little latter when you have some more time to get back to it.
Let's discuss the details of ACTS 15...
Notice what the topic of conversation is to ACTS 15?
The question and the whole topic of conversation of ACTS 15 is not wheather Gentile believers are to obey God's 10 commandments. This is made clear when Paul says this.....
1 Corinthians 7:19, Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.
The CONTEXT of Acts 15 is wheather CIRCUMCISION is a requirement for the gentile believers to be saved...
Acts 15:1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: "UNLESS YOU ARE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.
This is the who discussion and subject matter of Acts 15 and it was over this question (weather circumcision was a requirement for salvation to gentile believers) that is addressed in Acts 15...
Acts 15:1-2 [1], And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brothers, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved. [2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, THEY DETERMINED THAT PAUL AND BARNABAS AND CERTAIN OTHER OF THEM SHOULD ALL GO UP TO JERUSALEM TO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.
That is the question over is "CIRCUMCISION" are requirement for the salvation of gentile believers. The question here has nothing to do with if God's 10 commandments were a requirement for christian believers.
Can you see this dear GT?
God bless
Hi again GT, where does it say in any of Hebrews 4 that Jesus is the Sabbath? There is no scriptures that says in Hebrews 4 that Jesus is the Sabbath. As shown through the scriptures earlier,
the only biblical definition I have ever found on the "Sabbath" is from God's 4th commandment which is the 7th day of the week as shown in Exodus 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God... There is no scripture that says Jesus is a Sabbath.
There is no scriputure in God's Word anywhere that says Jesus is "the Sabbath" As posted earlier God's words defines and gives it's own definition to what the Sabbath is and the Word of God alone defines "the Sabbath" as the "seventh day" of the week which Jesus is the Lord or creator of...
Exodus 20:10, But THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD..
Mark 2:27-28 And he said to them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, AND NOT MAN FOR THE SABBATH
Matthew 12:8, For THE SON OF MAN IS LORD OF THE SABBATH DAY.
As you can see through the scriptures posted above God's 4th commandment Sabbath is defined in the scriptures as THE SEVENTH DAY of the week and it was made for man and Jesus is Lord or creator of the seventh day Sabbath. So how can Jesus be the Sabbath if the Sabbath is defined in the scriptures as the "seventh day" of the week and Jesus is Lord or creator of the "seventh day" of the week? If Jesus is the Sabbath that is the same as saying that Jesus created himself for man and that he is the Lord of himself. Can you see this dear GT? There is no scripture anywhere in God's Word that says or defines Jesus as the Sabbath.
Hebrews 4 however defines very clearly that God's REST is the seventh day Sabbath and that God's people are to enter into this rest by believing and following Gods' Word. Let's look at the scriptures...
HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE (GENSIS 2:1-3) OF THE SEVENTH DAY ON THIS WISE, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.
NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD enter into that rest which God's WORD defines as the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is GOD'S REST!
HEBREWS 4:9 SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.
Hope this is helpful
God bless
I do not have an "edit" icon for some reason so please forgive my typos.
Hi there BR, thanks for your response and nice to meet you here. As to your questions? Most I think are answered in the OP, What law? This as in reference to God's law (10 commandments) and what role if any it has in God's grace. Love those scriptures in Romans 8. The Spirit of life does indeed free us from the law of sin and death which is the wages of sin. I love this scriptures as it read within..
Romans 8:1-4
[1], There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4], That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
I see the purpose of God's Spirit being revealed in v4 and supports what Paul is saying in Romans 3:31 and Romans 13:8-10 in fulfillment of God's new covenant promise in Hebrews 8:10-12 and Galatians 5:16.
.........
Indeed I believe we are only saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *Ephesians 2:8. Obedience to God's law (10 Commandments) is not how we are saved it is the fruit of God's work in us as we believe and follow his word by faith that works by love. For me I believe God's Word teaches that salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *Romans 6:1-23; John 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the new covenant promise to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12; Philippians 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. Therefore based on the above scriptures although we only be God's grace, through faith alone, God gives us his grace for obedience to the faith...
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name
Thanks for sharing your view BR,
God bless.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Paul, by revelation, tells us in Romans 10:9 what we do to receive salvation,p.
There is no reference to the law nor the ten commandments in that verse
God's Truth
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I believe being in Jesus is obeying the Sabbath.
So when you said 9/10 one is abolished, I do not claim that.
The Sabbath is a day of rest. It is a ‘type’ of Jesus, like the bronze snake is a type of Jesus, and Israel, and the Passover, and crossing the Jordan, and the washings, and the animal sacrifices, etc.
So you really don’t see how Sabbath, the day of REST is about Jesus and not about a day?
If you are in Jesus then you are not breaking the command.
The only command that is being broke is you judging others according to a Sabbath day.
Nothing is being mixed up the scriptures state plainly that observing special days which includes the Sabbath is now worthless.
The Jews were trying to get the Gentile Christian Galatians to OBSERVE THE JEWS SPECIAL DAYS and to get CIRCUMCISED in the flesh.
Paul says the judaizers should cut themselves.
He also goes to great length to explain about circumcision to the Gentiles and how it is now worthless.
Galatians 3
The Law and the Promise
15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” i meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
…and many more.
It’s about eating something the Jews were taught were unclean, and about eating meat, or not eating meat.
It’s about days, just as the Sabbath is a day. It is warning against the very thing that you are doing.
God's Truth
New member
No, the Sabbath, all Sabbaths are about Jesus, as are all special days.
The whole Bible is about Jesus. Jesus came and we have rest in him, and observe him. Special days are now worthless.
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them... And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made." Gen. 2:1-3.
John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
John 5:10 the Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. 17But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God..
Do you want to keep saying we have to obey the Sabbath day by not working, etc? Jesus told the man to pick up and carry his bed.
You preach to obey the Sabbath as God says to do it. Do you do anything for your pleasure on the Sabbath? Do you do any idle talk? Do you kindle a fire, cook or boil anything? Do you do any work at all, even pick something up and carry it?
Jesus says He and his Father work.
Jesus tells us HOW TO get saved. We have to do what Jesus says to do to get saved.
We obey all the commandments when we love, because if you murder your neighbor, then you are not loving them, and if you commit adultery with their spouse, then you are not loving your neighbor, etc.
God's Truth
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lol I completely understand.
God's Truth
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Jesus saves us all on his own, and he tells us who he saves and how to be the one he saves.
That means we don’t have to get circumcised in the flesh and do the other cleaning commands. We now only have to have faith that Jesus’ blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.
We don't have to observe special days anymore because all those special days were about Jesus and now we don't observe days but we are to observe Jesus all day every day.
The males don't have to be circumcised in the flesh; we all only have to be circumcised in the heart by Jesus when we receive his Spirit.
We are no longer separated as a people by the kind of food we eat and how we cook; we are separated now by who believes and obeys and who doesn't.
We don't have to do external baths anymore before we go to the temple to worship God; we are washed by the Spirit by obedience to the words of God.
No more sacrificing animals because Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb and his blood cleans us once and for all.
We don’t need earthly priests and a high priest, for Jesus is the High Priest and we are priests.
We don't even have to go to the temple because we become the temple.
We are all priests to the Lord.
Jesus says it is right to do good on the Sabbath and not to do evil on the Sabbath.
You are wrong, for Paul says plainly that the Jews talked them into doing things that the Jews do, even circumcision.
The Sabbath is a special day. It is a day that the Jews observe.
You fail to acknowledge that Paul tells the Galatians that Peter is afraid of some Jews who also have caused trouble trying to get the Gentiles to obey the law as given to MOSES.
The Ten Commandments is that law was given to Moses.
Acts 15:1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved."
Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses."
Galatians 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.
God's Truth
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You are failing to acknowledge that the Jews observe special days, which the SABBATH DAY IS, and it is what the JEWS convinced the Galatians to observe, along with getting circumcised.
Nowhere anywhere does Paul says 'not special days and not the Sabbath, EXCEPT for a weekly Sabbath'.
God's Truth
New member
The scriptures in Hebrews 4 speaks of the Sabbath rest and how it is about Jesus and that we are to enter his rest.
Jesus said the Sabbath day was for man. It is a type of Jesus. Do you know the bronze snake is a type of Jesus? So do you think it is calling Jesus a snake? See how your reasoning is off when you say what you did?