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Thread: The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Thank God for you my Sister !
    Always Thanking Him for you my Brother !
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    By the death of Christ alone, apart from believing, repenting, accepting a gift, calling on the Name of the Lord, or anything DONE by those Christ died for, but Solely by His Death, He hath redeemed them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13

    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    There are no charges or consequences against them for all their violations of God's Law, they have a perfect clean slate , and God will not impute sin against them no matter what Rom 4:8

    8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    Yes, this man God will not charge with sin ! Not that this man is not a sinner, ungodly, an enemies by nature, all that can be true, nevertheless, if Christ has died for them, God cannot and will not charge them with sin. That's Justification and Forgiveness by Grace ! Sin is the Transgression of the Law 1 Jn 3:4

    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    Yet, those whom Christ died for, and by that death, redeemed them from the curse of the Law [ The strength of sin is the Law 1 Cor 15:56] Sin is not counted against them, they are Truly Blessed Rom 4:8.

    Those Christ did not die for, are under the curse of the law, and shall remain until they hear these words Matt 25:41

    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    So these Words can never apply to those Christ died for and Redeemed from the curse of the Law, and who Live by Faith, a fruit of the Spirit given them in New Birth Gal. 5:22.

    Gal. 3:14

    That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    John 12:32

    32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    This drawing all men to Himself is an promised Effect of Him being Lifted Up, which speaks of His Death.

    Now this drawing means that they will follow Him as His Sheep.

    The word draw is the greek word helkō and means:

    to draw, drag off

    2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

    Jesus is using the word in the metaph #2 sense. He will draw them by an inner power, the Spirit in them,He will be leading them or impelling them inwardly.

    In fact, its the same as when He said Jn 10:3-4

    3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

    4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

    Those He was lifted Up for, He knows them, and eventually He calls them by their Name and Leadeth them !

    That word leadeth is the word exago:

    to lead out and to fetch out Acts 16:37

    The word is actually Two words combined ek =out of, from, by, away from and agō = to lead, take with one

    a) to lead by laying hold of, and this way to bring to the point of destination: of an animal

    He fetches out or leads out from their Lost state and brings them to their destination.

    But notice the word lead. That is what draw means as well in Jn 12:32.

    But also Jesus said He putteth them forth Jn 10:4. Its the verb ekballō and means :

    to cause a thing to move straight on its intended goal

    to lead one forth or away somewhere with a force which he cannot resist

    This is describing His Irresistible Call of His Own Sheep by Name Jn 10:3

    After He does that, He goes before them as their Shepherd and Leader and they do follow Him ! Jn 10:4

    And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

    That word follow akoloutheō:

    to follow one who precedes, join him as his attendant, accompany him

    2) to join one as a disciple, become or be his disciple

    a) side with his party

    They become His disciples, His converts to His Teachings and ways, so Believers.

    Lets look at one more passage Jn 10:16

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    Notice, other Sheep He must bring. That word bring agō:

    to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind. This again is same as drawing Jn 12:32 metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

    So the All Men of Jn 12:32 are all of His Sheep. In the original it just reads, will draw all unto me. The word men was added by the Translators, but its all His Sheep from out of the jewish fold and the gentile fold, so He means in Jn 10:16.

    Now is this the Christ you believe in ? The Christ who says that if He be Lifted Up [speaking of His death for His Sheep Jn 10:15] that He will draw all of them to Himself, and they shall follow Him, Believe in Him, become His disciple, and be for Him and His Gospel cause. Not one of them shall be Lost, because He found them all !

    Amen, Excellent Illustration !

    Yes, this is the exact Same Christ I Believe in, My Shepherd: The Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20 !
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    All for whom Christ has died, they no more owe for sin the wages of death,for it is written Rom 6:23

    23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Just as Justice owed them death through their sin in Adam, Christ paid that debt for them, now Justice owes them Life from the dead, not because of anything they did or did not do, but strictly through the Lord Jesus Christ, what He did for them.

    You see, all for whom He died,all of their sins against God's law, past and present and future,the Penalty of Death, even Eternal Death, has already been endured and paid in full unto the uttermost farthing.

    God has been satisfied in His Justice regard to them; But now in light of this Justice Satisfied, Both God and His Law and Grace demand the bestowal of Eternal Life, or to be made alive from death ! Eph 2:1,5

    5 Even when we were dead in sins[Because of the wages of sin Rom 6:23], hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

    This word quickened is the greek word syzōopoieō which means:

    to make one alive together

    a) of Christians, with Christ

    Its made of the word zōopoieō which means:

    to produce alive, begat or bear living young

    2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

    And that is God's Justice answering to what Christ has done for them in taking away their sins which sins is what merited their death in sin in the first place. Now that that issue has been resolved [Christ died for their sins, which sins brought about their spiritual death] Justice demands that they be made alive, just as much as it did demand their death for sin !

    Lets remember, that all that perfect obedience Christ rendered to God's Law as it should be, He rendered it not for Himself, but for all those He died for, and as a Free Gift, that perfect obedience is imputed to their account, and that Righteousness of His, charged to them, demands Life, for with Righteousness is Life Prov 12:28

    In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

    John Gill writes on this verse:



    So those Christ died for are credited with Two Blessings because of Him or through Him: Full and Perfect Obedience to God's Law [Righteousness] and full satisfaction paid for every last one of their sins they did commit against God's Law, in their head Adam Rom 5:12 and in their own Persons, So Justice and Truth and Grace demands that they Live, be made alive,nd that everlastingly. For through Christ they have done what the Rich Young ruler was not able to do to enter into Life Matt 19:16-17

    16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

    17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

    Amen to your God-Glorifying post Brother, and TY also for John Gill's excellent comments!

    All for whom Christ represented as their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22 [His Sheep], they keep all God's Commandments perfectly In Him. For that's the only way any man has Eternal Life Mat. 19:16-17. So as a result of having had their sins imputed to Christ, they must be quickened, made Spiritually Alive in New Birth, because no longer are they subject to spiritual death as others Rom. 6:23a; so for them Grace Reigns unto Righteousness.

    Rom. 5:19-21

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


    Rom. 8:3-4

    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


    So the Sheep are made Just in Christ their Head Rom. 5:18-19,

    while the goats Mat. 25:41 remain unjust still Rev. 22:11.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Now Paul writes of the same thing, the great purpose of Christ's Death Rom 7:4

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


    All this transpires as a result of the Body of Christ, meaning His Death. Remember those who Christ represented when He died, when He rose from the dead it was for [because of] their Justification Rom 4:25

    25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.


    And the Just or Justified shall live by Faith Rom 1:17

    17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    All for whom He represented in His Obedience, shall be made Just or Righteous Rom 5:19


    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    That obedience includes His Death, or " The Body of Christ" and by it those He died for are made Righteous experientially by New Birth !

    So in other words, for those whom He died to bear fruit, it is He Himself bearing fruit from His dying Jn 12:24,32-33

    24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

    32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

    The fruit those bear for whom He died is Faith, for Faith in Christ is a fruit of His Death, so is Love, Love to God and our brethren in Christ, they fruits of His Death, Peace, the Peace we have is a fruit of Christ's Death, the same with Joy, its a fruit of Christ's Death. The Joy and Peace of believing is a fruit of Christ's death Rom 15:13

    Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

    Yes, the Joy, Peace, and believing are all fruits of Christ's Death. In case you have not noticed, these are all fruit of the Spirit which all for whom He died receives of in New Birth by His Resurrection from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    3 Praised (honored, blessed) be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah)! By His boundless mercy we have been born again to an ever-living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,AMP

    By New Birth we enter into the Kingdom of God Rom 14:17

    17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

    Thats the same Peace and Joy through Believing as in Rom 15:13

    13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

    Notice also the Holy Ghost is Named in both Verses, because we have been Born of Him.

    Yes, all those fruits produced out of the believer, are actually His fruit produced from His being that corn of wheat that fell to the ground and died Jn 12:24

    24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

    Now, if all for whom He died for as that corn of wheat, if they all do not bear fruit of Faith in Him Rom 7:4

    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Because Faith Joins them to Him in Fellowship 1 Cor 1:9

    9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

    That fellowship denotes that marriage of Rom 7:4, its the word koinōnia:

    fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse

    a) the share which one has in anything, participation

    b) intercourse, fellowship, intimacy

    If all do not become married in Fellowship with the Son, then His Bride is defected, and His Death failed the Purpose of God the Father !

    Amen, and TY for this most edifying post !

    May God Bless you richly my Brother !
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You see, all for whom Christ died, He died for having all their guilt and transgressions imputed to Him, So on the other hand, all that He in His suffering obedience unto death, is imputed to them. The guilt of their sins were reckoned upon Him as though He was personally guilty of them; And likewise What He did in all of His Obedience to God's Law and Justice, in their behalf, has been reckoned to them as if they personally done it themselves; Thus having Christ's Surety Righteousness charged to them as they obeyed in Christ, as they disobeyed in Adam, Adam disobeyed and made them sinners, but Christ obeyed and them Righteous Rom 5:19

    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    The reason why Paul uses the future tense " Shall be made Righteous" is Because they are born into the world experiencing first the effects of Adam's disobedience, and are born sinners, but because Christ was their Surety, they shall be born again afterwards to experience the effects of Christ's Obedience. However, it must be understood that God will not constitute anyone Righteous whom He does not first reckons as Righteous. !

    Amen to both parts !

    Those which remain unrighteous weren't any Christ died for, His Righteousness was never laid to their account, such as these:

    1 Cor. 6:9

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    Therefore, according to God's Law and Justice they are found guilty and are subject to His reprobation because Christ was not their Surety, so they remain in their sins; and the wages of sin is death Rom. 6:23a.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    nanja
    Those which remain unrighteous weren't any Christ died for, His Righteousness was never laid to their account, such as these:
    Absolutely correct !


    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    Therefore, according to God's Law and Justice they are found guilty and are subject to His reprobation because Christ was not their Surety, so they remain in their sins; and the wages of sin is death Rom. 6:23a.
    Yes their sins remained charged to them !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Christ as the Surety of His People, His Sheep, His Body the Church accomplished these two things for them in His Surety-ship obedience, He fulfilled the law for them by keeping/obeying all of its Holy Commands, and added to that He came under the Laws curse and condemnation due to their iniquities Isa 53:5 which satisfied the penalty of death due unto them by His Cross !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Christ as the Surety of His People, His Sheep, His Body the Church accomplished these two things for them in His Surety-ship obedience, He fulfilled the law for them by keeping/obeying all of its Holy Commands, and added to that He came under the Laws curse and condemnation due to their iniquities Isa 53:5 which satisfied the penalty of death due unto them by His Cross !

    Amen ! Because of Christ's Surety-ship in behalf of all God's Elect or Sheep in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, all the sins they would commit in time were imputed to Christ and His Righteousness imputed to them Rom. 5:19. So, according to God's Law and Justice, no sin of theirs could ever be Legally charged to them, including their trespass in Adam. So Christ's Death / Blood [Stripes] Is. 53:5 accomplished fulfillment of the Law on their behalf by His becoming a curse for them; providing them Legal Forgiveness from all sin Eph. 1:7.

    Gal. 3:13

    Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    Now the Elect of God which are Legally Forgiven, will in time have it revealed to them when they are born again / born of the Spirit of God and given the ability to hear Prov. 20:12 God's Words John 8:47a, the Gospel of their Salvation Eph. 1:13 when it's Preached to them.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    It delivers us from this present evil world ?

    What does ? The death of Christ, the giving of Himself for us Gal 1:4

    Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

    The purpose is here stated as to why Christ gave himself for our [believers, His Body the Church]sins, its so that, in order that, he might deliver us from the present evil world.

    The conjunction that hopos means:

    /hópōs ("so that") is stronger than simple "that," because it emphasizes the method (qualities, prerequisites) involved to accomplish the objective (purpose) at hand. https://biblehub.com/greek/3704.htm

    To deliver us from this present evil world. We werent believers prior to the deliverance, but believing is an outcome of having been delivered from the world. Remember Paul says later that it was by the Cross that:

    Gal 6:14

    14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Now lets look at the word deliver in Gal 1:4

    4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

    This word deliver is an interesting word, its the greek compound word
    exaireó its ek or ex:

    from, from out of
    Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

    And the word
    haireó :

    to take, choose
    Usage: I choose, prefer.

    This is the ideal of election,

    so it is rendered

    to take out, to deliver
    Usage: I take out, remove; sometimes (mid): I choose, sometimes: I rescue.

    hairéomai, "personally choose, prefer") – properly, remove completely ("totally out from"), i.e. bring into a "complete rescue (full removal)."


    [1807 (eksairéō) emphasizes total removal ("wholly out from"). This refers to a complete rescue, bringing a person into full deliverance.]


    It reminds me as how God rescued and removed lot from judgment

    Now this deliverance is Salvation in every facet, and its not according to the will of man, but according to the will of God Gal 1:4

    4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

    The will of God our Father, which means He was our Father before we were delivered, and serves to merciful motive why we were delivered, for Hes our Father by election in Christ first and foremost !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    The atoning work of Christ blesses us and turns us away from our sins Acts 3:25-26

    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

    Now even though Peter was speaking to jews at the time, this blessing wasnt limited to them, hence we read in vs 25 it stems from the Abrahamic Covenant which included the Gentiles.

    "the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed."

    Paul uses the same speech in speaking of the Gospel to the gentiles Gal 3:8

    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, iniquities.

    So being turned from ones iniquities is a by product of the Abrahamic promise from God "iniquities" So the blessing isnt for the jews only, though they would be the first to experience the blessing of it.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    So being turned from ones iniquities is a by product of the Abrahamic promise from God "iniquities" So the blessing isnt for the jews only, though they would be the first to experience the blessing of it.

    This is also the end in view by the redemptive death of Christ Titus 2:14

    14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  19. #1364
    Maranatha Nanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Now lets look at the word deliver in Gal 1:4

    4 [FONT="]Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

    This word deliver is an interesting word, its the greek compound word [/FONT]
    exaireó its ek or ex:

    from, from out of
    Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.

    And the word
    haireó :

    to take, choose
    Usage: I choose, prefer.

    This is the ideal of election,

    so it is rendered

    to take out, to deliver
    Usage: I take out, remove; sometimes (mid): I choose, sometimes: I rescue.

    hairéomai, "personally choose, prefer") – properly, remove completely ("totally out from"), i.e. bring into a "complete rescue (full removal)."


    [1807 (eksairéō) emphasizes total removal ("wholly out from"). This refers to a complete rescue, bringing a person into full deliverance.]


    It reminds me as how God rescued and removed lot from judgment

    Now this deliverance is Salvation in every facet, and its not according to the will of man, but according to the will of God Gal 1:4

    4 [FONT="]Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

    The will of God our Father, which means He was our Father before we were delivered, and serves to merciful motive why we were delivered, for Hes our Father by election in Christ first and foremost !
    [/FONT]

    Amen, also the word deliver in Gal. 1:4, Gr exaireō, means to pluck out, draw out, root out

    2) to choose out (for one's self, select, one person from many

    3) to rescue, deliver.

    So the overall idea is a definite redemption or deliverance; a selection from many Rev. 14:4.

    To rescue or deliver is another way of expressing Salvation.


    Christ gave Himself to rescue or deliver His Sheep [Elect] from their sins John 10:11, 15 !
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    Amen, also the word deliver in Gal. 1:4, Gr exaireō, means to pluck out, draw out, root out

    2) to choose out (for one's self, select, one person from many

    3) to rescue, deliver.

    So the overall idea is a definite redemption or deliverance; a selection from many Rev. 14:4.

    To rescue or deliver is another way of expressing Salvation.


    Christ gave Himself to rescue or deliver His Sheep [Elect] from their sins John 10:11, 15 !
    Amen Sister!
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to beloved57 For Your Post:

    Nanja (November 10th, 2018)

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