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Thread: The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Made of a women for who ?

    Gal 4:4-6

    4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.



    The objects of redemption when Christ was made of a women, that is, when He was made Flesh and Blood, it was not for all of mankind, but for the seed of Abraham per Heb 2:14-16


    14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

    16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    His Flesh and Blood Identification, when made under the Law, born of a women [ The virgin birth] was limited to a certain segment of mankind, the seed of Abraham.

    And this seed, was not limited to a certain segment of mankind, as the jews may have thought, but it consisted in all who would believe in Christ, jew or gentile Gal 3:29

    And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    So, Christ was made under the Law, born of a women, to Redeem the seed of Abraham, all those who should believe in Him through the Spirit of adoption !

    Redemption secures unto Christ believers in Him [of the seed of Abraham], by the Working of the Spirit of Adoption !
    Last edited by beloved57; August 11th, 2011 at 10:08 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That all sounds good without the IF's. But when you add the IF's it sheds a whole new light on the subject.
    ONLY CHRISTIANS IF? ONLY LOVED IF?

    Eph 4:21
    21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
    John 6:29
    29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
    Matt 11:27
    27 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
    1 Pet 4:17-18
    17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
    18 Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?"
    Heb 3:14
    14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
    ........15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
    16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
    17 Therefore "Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you."
    18 "I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
    (NKJ)
    the 'ifs' are important. ignore them at risk of dying eternally.
    note that catholics claim or believe all the promises, yet receive not life.
    'if' one receives life, he is kicked out and is no longer a catholic, because the religious leaders cannot tolerate truth, life, nor Christ.
    (watch how many of them will argue, all to no avail - they remain dead in their trespasses and sin, deceived by ol' slewfoot)
    ......

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    In being made of a woman and made under law, He took on the seed of Abraham and not the seed of mankind in general, for all mankind is not the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

    16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    Now in taking on the seed of Abraham, Paul says that He was made sin for us !

    2 Cor 5:21

    21For he hath made him to be sin for us [The seed of Abraham], who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Who are the us in 2 Cor 5:21 that Paul is referring to ? Is it all mankind without exception ? No it is not. Let us examine the scripture to find the answer. " When the fulness of time had come, God sent forth His own Son [meaning He was God's Son before Mary's Son], made of a women, made under the law, to redeem [ not to make redemption possible] them [ His members, His body] that were under the Law [Limited redemption]that [in order that] they may receive the adoption of Sons.

    Now coming as such [ under the law] He came and took upon Him the seed of Abraham. The seed of Abraham is a chosen people !

    Ps 105:6

    O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

    Isa 41:8

    But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

    So its plain that He came and Identified with and to redeem a Chosen People, and not the whole world of mankind.

    In taking on the seed of Abraham, He took on all their Transgressions, and died for their sins !

    Isa 53:4-11

    4Surely he hath borne our [seed of Abraham] griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.


    5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

    8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed [The seed of Abraham], he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many [The seed of Abraham]; for he shall bear their [The seed of Abraham] iniquities.

    1 Cor 15:3

    3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our [The seed of Abraham] sins according to the scriptures;

    Yes, in all places above where we see the pronouns our, us, we, their, it refers to the Seed of Abraham !

    Lets not forget it is written that He took on the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

    16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
    Last edited by beloved57; October 15th, 2011 at 05:46 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    More on the accomplishment of the Atonement !

    In taking on the seed of Abraham, being made sin for us, what does this mean ? Does it mean that He actually became sin , as I understand some believe ? No, not at all; but what it does mean is that He became our sin offering, by bearing our sins Isa 53:11-12

    11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    The word bare in this verse is the hebrew word
    nasa' and means:

    to cause one to bear (iniquity)

    To receive the punishment of sin upon oneself for others !

    Heb 9:28

    28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    1 Pet 2:24

    24Who his own self bare our [seed of Abraham] sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    1 Jn 3:5

    5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our [seed of Abraham] sins; and in him is no sin.

    Like the scape goat, He bare away the sins of Israel, that is took them away cp Jn 1:29

    29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    Lets not forget in this connection that it is written that he took on the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

    16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    For it was with this seed only He stood Identified with, in lieu of the seed of the serpent !

    It was for this seed he bare their sins in His body on the tree, for it was as the seed of Abraham that he was recognized by the law and justice of God, as being responsible for their sins. So He was made a sin offering for their sins, bearing their sins in His body on the Tree.
    Last edited by beloved57; August 17th, 2011 at 11:24 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    More on the accomplishment of the Atonement !

    Heb 2:16

    16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    For it was with this seed only He stood Identified with, in lieu of the seed of the serpent !

    It was for this seed he bare their sins in His body on the tree, for it was as the seed of Abraham that he was recognized by the law and justice of God, as being responsible for their sins. So He was made a sin offering for their sins, bearing their sins in His body on the Tree.

    Think with me for a moment, if a crime is committed by ones hand, is not true that the life of the body of which that hand is a member be liable to law and justice for the crime ? For thats why it is written that Jesus is the Saviour of the body per Eph 5:23

    23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

    In line with this Truth and subject, the High Priest confessed the sins of Israel [ the seed of Abraham] only over the head of the scape goat, and it was said their [ Israel's] sins were laid upon the head of the scapegoat and borne away per Lev 16:20-22


    20And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat:

    21And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

    22And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

    It is in this way Jesus was made sin for the sins of us [ The seed of Abraham] by becoming their sin bearer; for He was also made a curse for His People Gal 3:13

    13Christ hath redeemed us [seed of Abraham] from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us [seed of Abraham]: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    Last edited by beloved57; September 26th, 2011 at 04:33 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Also made a curse !

    It is in this way Jesus was made sin for the sins of us [ The seed of Abraham] by becoming their sin bearer; for He was also made a curse for His People Gal 3:13

    13Christ hath redeemed us [seed of Abraham] from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us [seed of Abraham]: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    The first we read of any curse is Gen 3:17

    17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

    and this curse is the result of Adam's Sin who BTW is the Forefather of Abraham see Lk 3:34 which was the breaking of the Law of God, the covenant of God, that Adam broke covenant is seen here:

    Hos 6:7

    But they like men [Adam] have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

    Well Christ as the substitute on the cross for the sins of the seed of Abraham, not only bore the curse for them, but became a curse for them, so that, when Christ took away their sin on the Tree, He redeemed them out of the curse of the Law and Covenant Deut 29:21

    And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

    Gods people whom Christ died for can never be called cursed i.e Num 23:7-8

    7And he took up his parable, and said, Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel.

    8How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom the LORD hath not defied?

    cp 2 Cor 5:19 & Rom 8:33

    For Christ has become a curse for them already and has borne all their charges !

    Now, it should go without saying that those who will yet hear these words from The Saviour, the Seed of Abraham Matt 25:41

    41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    cannot be any for whom Christ died for substituted for. Those can be only cursed for this Gal 3:10

    10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

    These are born under the curse of the law and remain so, with no redemption, and so shall hear those dreadful words in the day of Judgment.

    They were not of the seed of Abraham or of the woman, but of the seed of the serpent ! see Gen 3:14-15
    Last edited by beloved57; October 2nd, 2011 at 12:30 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    More on the accomplishment of the Atonement !

    Now, regarding the substitutionary death of Christ for sinners, that in and of itself was not able to meet the righteous demands of God's Law, for to merely punish the innocent and clear the guilty was also a violation of Gods Law which Christ came to fulfill. Prov 17:15

    He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

    However, the Head being Identified with it's body may be charged for the crimes of the body i.e Eph 5:23,30

    23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

    30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

    He identified with His body in taking on the seed of Abraham ! He had the redeemers right to redeem His people as the nearest of kin to them, and holding by virtue of a higher status, as the firstborn in the seed of Abraham, because they too partook of flesh and blood Heb 2:14,16b


    14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;

    16b but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

    You see, He substituted for those who were of the seed of Abraham, they all belonged to the same seed line, He and they !
    Last edited by beloved57; December 6th, 2011 at 03:21 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    What did it [the Atonement] REALLY accomplish?
    I believe the atonement doctrine (as portrayed by traditional Christianity) fosters a God of fear, not of love.

    Jesus said, "To the ego sin means death, and so atonement is achieved through murder. Salvation is looked upon as a way by which the Son of God was killed instead of you." ("A Course in Miracles")

    * Selah *

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    Eph 2:4-6

    When did God make us alive together with Christ ?

    Eph 2:4-6



    4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

    5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

    6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    The answer to the question is in purpose and objectively we were raised up together with Christ at the same time He was raised up by The Father. That is what Paul is teaching here.

    Last edited by beloved57; November 28th, 2011 at 07:58 AM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    The Atonement of Christ accomplished the building of Christ Church !

    Matt 16:18

    18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Jesus here did not mean a literal church building, but His People, True believers in Him, upon the rock of He being the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and the shedding of His Blood..

    Within this statement Jesus ensures believers in Himself, that is all that the Father hath given Him. His building His Church produces believers, Notice Jesus states " I will build my Church " take that freewillers, for Christ depends solely on His will and not yours to build His Church.

    The word build is the greek word:

    oikodomeō and means:


    to build a house, erect a building

    a) to build (up from the foundation)

    b) to restore by building, to rebuild, repair2) metaph.

    a) to found, establish

    b) to promote growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue, holiness, blessedness

    c) to grow in wisdom and piety

    This Ideal is conveyed in Acts 15 when James quotes scripture prophecy Acts 15:13-16
    13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

    14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

    15And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

    16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

    This also means that Christ Church was in the OT as well..

    And Christ assures us that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it !

    The gates of hell cannot prevent one for whom Christ died from believing in Christ nor from going to heaven..If anyone of the church that the blood of Christ purchased as per Acts 20:28b

    to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    If anyone of them perish for their sins, then the gates of hell prevailed against the Church that Christ said He would build. If anyone of that Church dies in unbelief and perish in their sins as per Jn 8:24

    24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    Then the gates of hell prevailed against Christ building His Church.

    If one goes to hell its because the gates of hell prevailed against them, that is the devil prevailed against them.. Unbelief is due to the devil blinding us 2 Cor 4:3

    3But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

    4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,

    Lk 8:12

    12Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

    So yes, unbelief is due to the devil being victorious ! He prevails preventing one to believe and be saved..Paul says this:

    2 Thess 2:10

    And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

    Satan, the Devil, the gates of Hell is prevailing against such as these..

    But Jesus Christ by His Atoning death will build a community of believers in Him, that shall follow Him..

    He says as a complement to Matt 16:18 this Jn 12:32


    32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    Thats His building, His drawing all to Him that He was lifted up for as the Son of the Living God..
    Last edited by beloved57; December 10th, 2011 at 03:14 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    "Righteousness implies that God is the source of the moral law of the universe. Truth exhibits God as a revealer, as a teacher. But love gives and craves affection, seeks understanding fellowship such as exists between parent and child. Righteousness may be the divine thought, but love is a fatherís attitude. The erroneous supposition that the righteousness of God was irreconcilable with the selfless love of the heavenly Father, presupposed absence of unity in the nature of Deity and led directly to the elaboration of the atonement doctrine, which is a philosophic assault upon both the unity and the free-willness of God."



    Jesus taught and practiced his religion (the gospel of the kingdom of heaven) for 3 years before he ever voluntarily shared death with humanity as an act of Love. He never taught human sacrifice nor the atonement doctrine. Sacrifice minded Jewish converts to Christianity assumed the atonement doctrine.

    The atonement doctrine is a fallacy and only acts to obscure the living truth of the Father's love for mankind.


    Caino

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Beloved, how is grace applied to the believer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrivesWithGod View Post
    Beloved, how is grace applied to the believer?
    You tell me ! You do not even believe that Christ death is efficacious !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  22. #29
    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    caino:

    Righteousness implies that God is the source of the moral law of the universe.
    Christ death accomplished, that whoever He died for, they shall be made righteous..Rom 5:19m

    so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    Last edited by beloved57; October 2nd, 2011 at 12:23 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Christ death accomplished purification of sin to all He died for !

    Heb 9:13


    13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

    14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    Those who believe that the atoning death of Christ does not purify all for whom He died, you are reducing the preciuos blood of the Son of God to be even less effective than the blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of an heifer that accomplished the purifying of the flesh, which was actually a type of what the Blood of Christ does..

    Whereas the animal blood only provided outward sanctification and purification, the blood of Christ accomplished a purification of the inmost being, for it [His blood] actually purifies the conscience from dead works to serve the Living God..

    Anyone who never comes to serve the Living God, Christ did not shed His blood for them, or His blood was ineffectual ..
    Last edited by beloved57; December 12th, 2011 at 11:48 PM.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to beloved57 For Your Post:

    Nanja (January 23rd, 2018)

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