The Doom of the Democrat Party Begins

The Barbarian

The Barbarian

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From the cited article:

Some witnesses who have been interviewed in Horowitz's investigation have said they expect the inspector general to find mistakes in the FBI's handling of the FISA process, but that those mistakes do not undermine the premise for the FBI's investigation.

American intelligence agencies and the Justice Department have not swayed from their finding that Russia interfered in the 2016 election by hacking the Democrats and spreading pro-Trump propaganda online. And even former top Trump campaign officials have corroborated special counsel Robert Mueller's finding that the Trump campaign planned some of its strategy around the Russian hacks, and had multiple contacts with Kremlin-linked individuals in 2016.

Horowitz's investigators conducted more than 100 witness interviews in their review. During one of interviews this year, they confronted the witness about the document. The witness admitted to the change, the sources said.

The lawyer, who was a line attorney, is no longer working at the bureau, said a person familiar with the matter. A line attorney is a lower level lawyer within the FBI.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/21/politics/fbi-fisa-russia-investigation/index.html
 
The Barbarian

The Barbarian

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On November 2, 2017, Page testified[58] to the House Intelligence Committee that he had kept senior officials in the Trump campaign such as Corey Lewandowski, Hope Hicks, and J. D. Gordon informed about his contacts with the Russians[59] and had informed Jeff Sessions, Lewandowski, Hicks and other Trump campaign officials that he was traveling to Russia to give a speech in July 2016.[60][61][62]

Page testified that he had met with Russian government officials during this trip and had sent a post-meeting report via email to members of the Trump campaign.[63] He also indicated that campaign co-chairman Sam Clovis had asked him to sign a non-disclosure agreement about his trip.[64] Elements of Page's testimony contradicted prior claims by Trump, Sessions, and others in the Trump administration.[60][63][65][66] Lewandowski, who had previously denied knowing Page or meeting him during the campaign, said after Page's testimony that his memory was refreshed and acknowledged that he had been aware of Page's trip to Russia.[67]

Page also testified that after delivering a commencement speech at the New Economic School in Moscow, he spoke briefly with one of the people in attendance, Arkady Dvorkovich, a Deputy Prime Minister in Dmitry Medvedev's cabinet, contradicting his previous statements not to have spoken to anyone connected with the Russian government.[68] In addition, while Page denied a meeting with Sechin as alleged in the Trump–Russia dossier, he did say he met with Andrey Baranov, Rosneft's head of investor relations.[69] The dossier alleges that Sechin offered Page the brokerage fee from the sale of up to 19 percent of Rosneft if he worked to roll back Magnitsky Act economic sanctions that had been imposed on Russia in 2012.[69][70][71] It also alleges that Page confirmed, on Trump's "full authority", that this was Trump's intent.[69][72][73][74][75][76] Page testified that he did not "directly" express support for lifting the sanctions during the meeting with Baranov, but that he might have mentioned the proposed Rosneft transaction.[6
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_Page

There's a Ukraine connection, too...

One day after the Donald Trump campaign tried to turn former adviser Carter Page into a fall guy over the Russia scandal, Page is now firing back and accusing Trump himself of having been behind it all. Page was one of at least three Trump advisers who met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the Republican Convention, which resulted in the Republican Party platform being changed in favor of Russia.

Earlier this week, former Donald Trump campaign adviser J.D. Gordon told CNN that it was Donald Trump himself who initiated the push for the change in the Republican Party platform to favor Russia over the Ukraine, and that Trump had been pushing for it for at least four months leading up to the convention. Gordon, Carter Page, and Jeff Sessions all attended the convention meeting with the Russian Ambassador. Page has changed his story several times and can no longer be seen as particularly credible in his own right, but now he’s directly backing up the claims made by the far more credible Gordon.

Carter Page’s sudden willingness to finger Donald Trump may be a result of the Trump campaign’s actions yesterday. The campaign fully disavowed itself of Page, insisting that it had been sending him cease and desist letters for months because he had been publicly misrepresenting his role in the campaign. Then today, Harvard Law Professor and political pundit Laurence Tribe revealed the following: “Trump adviser Carter Page changes story, now says Trump, despite denial, ordered Ukraine change at RNC after Sessions met w Kislyak there!”

If Donald Trump was indeed behind the Republican National Convention conspiracy to change the Republican party platform at the behest of the Russian Ambassador, then he’s 50% of the way to being inarguably guilty. The other half would involve proving Trump having made the platform change in exchange for Russia hacking his Democratic Party opponents.
https://www.palmerreport.com/opinio...behind-russia-conspiracy-gop-convention/1781/
 
eider

eider

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Jerry Shugart said:
Washington (CNN) A former FBI lawyer is under criminal investigation after allegedly altering a document related to 2016 surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser, several people briefed on the matter told CNN.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/21/politics/fbi-fisa-russia-investigation/index.html
Click to expand...

Doom of Democrat Party?
Oh dear. How dreadful.
But..... Hang on...... let's wait and see, eh?
This 'doom' may just be another 'fake news'. ....?

Come on.... get real. A party supported by millions of people won't die because various folks are bad. If that was true, just think what would happen to the Republican Party!
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
eider said:
Doom of Democrat Party?
Oh dear. How dreadful.
But..... Hang on...... let's wait and see, eh?
This 'doom' may just be another 'fake news'. ....?

Come on.... get real. A party supported by millions of people won't die because various folks are bad. If that was true, just think what would happen to the Republican Party!
Click to expand...

Because of the scandal which will be revealed about Obama's Justice Department and CIA the Democrat Party will be doomed to lose the 2020 election, including the Presidental race and both houses of Congress.

And the recovery of the Democrat Party will be a long process to return to anything resembling respectability--a long, uphill battle, especially with people like AOL hung around its neck!

That means that Trump will be able to nominate at least one more young jurist to the Supreme Court, meaning that for many years to come that court will no longer be legislating from the bench--a great victory for those who actually support the Constitution.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Barbarian said:
If Donald Trump was indeed behind the Republican National Convention conspiracy to change the Republican party platform at the behest of the Russian Ambassador, then he’s 50% of the way to being inarguably guilty.
Click to expand...

Trump has been Russia's worse nightmare! Obama gave Ukraine blankets while Trump gave them missiles which destroy Russian tanks and allow the Ukrainians to defend themselves.

Because of your Trump delusional syndrome you can't even understand these simple things!
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
eider said:
Doom of Democrat Party?
Oh dear. How dreadful.
But..... Hang on...... let's wait and see, eh?
This 'doom' may just be another 'fake news'. ....?

Come on.... get real. A party supported by millions of people won't die because various folks are bad. If that was true, just think what would happen to the Republican Party!
Click to expand...

you're British, right?
 
eider

eider

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Because of the scandal which will be revealed about Obama's Justice Department and CIA the Democrat Party will be doomed to lose the 2020 election, including the Presidental race and both houses of Congress.

And the recovery of the Democrat Party will be a long process to return to anything resembling respectability--a long, uphill battle, especially with people like AOL hung around its neck!

That means that Trump will be able to nominate at least one more young jurist to the Supreme Court, meaning that for many years to come that court will no longer be legislating from the bench--a great victory for those who actually support the Constitution.
Click to expand...

Best thing to do with the above is to log it, remember it, and tell it back to you sometime next year.
That'll be fun.
 
The Barbarian

The Barbarian

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Jerry Shugart said:
Trump has been Russia's worse nightmare!
Click to expand...

Seems unlikely.
We now know it was Trump who insisted that the republican party platform change their statement on Ukraine to suit Putin.
We now know Putin did everything he could to get Trump elected.
We saw Trump, as Putin stood by watching, obediently take Putin's word that he didn't do it, and disparaged U.S. intelligence agencies who showed that Putin was trying to get Trump elected.
We saw Trump withholding military aid from Ukraine, only releasing Congressionally-ordered support when the quid pro quo attempt was exposed.
We heard Trump asking the Russians to help him dig up dirt on Clinton.
We know of Donnie Jr.'s enthusiasm in setting up a meeting with Russian agents in Trump tower to get dirt on Clinton.
We know, contrary to Trump's claims, that he was actively seeking business ties with Russian oligarchs tied to Putin.
The CIA has recorded senior Russian intelligence agents congratulating themselves for getting Trump elected.
Kremlin-directed operatives opened champagne when Donald Trump won the presidency in 2016, according to a communication disclosed in a new Senate Intelligence Committee report outlining Russia’s sweeping social media efforts to help him win.

“We uncorked a tiny bottle of champagne ... took one gulp each and looked into each other’s eyes .... We uttered almost in unison: ‘We made America great,’” one operative at the St. Petersburg-based Internet Research Agency said in the message obtained by the Republican-led committee.
https://news.yahoo.com/senate-intelligence-panel-warns-russian-181600297.html

Trump gave them missiles
Click to expand...

After he got caught withholding them to pressure the Ukrainians to make up dirt on Biden.
Scalise argued that Trump did nothing wrong because “Ukraine got the money.” It’s true that the aid was released, but only after diplomats privately and the media publicly had begun to raise questions with Trump officials about the aid being tied to investigations, after the House intelligence committee officially learned about the existence of a whistleblower complaint, and after three House committees announced investigations into whether Trump and his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, tried to pressure Ukraine into conducting “politically-motivated investigations.”

Because of your Trump delusional syndrome you can't even understand these simple things.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Barbarian said:
After he got caught withholding them to pressure the Ukrainians to make up dirt on Biden.
Click to expand...

Ukraine bought its first Javelins in March 2018. That deal included 210 missiles and 37 launchers and cost $47 million. The Trump administration in 2017 had approved Ukraine to receive Javelins. The 2017 decision reversed the policy of the administration of Pres. Barack Obama, which placed limits on the sale to Ukraine of what it considered “offensive lethal weaponry.”

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ukraine-getting-150-deadly-javelin-anti-tank-missiles-85696

Who helped Ukraine's efforts to defend herself more, Obama or Trump?
 
The Barbarian

The Barbarian

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Jerry Shugart said:
Ukraine bought its first Javelins in March 2018. That deal included 210 missiles and 37 launchers and cost $47 million. The Trump administration in 2017 had approved Ukraine to receive Javelins. The 2017 decision reversed the policy of the administration of Pres. Barack Obama, which placed limits on the sale to Ukraine of what it considered “offensive lethal weaponry.”
Click to expand...

So to review, by the time Trump made the decision to release the aid to Ukraine, the White House would have known that the House intelligence committee had been told about the existence of the whistleblower complaint. It would have known that diplomats like Taylor had raised questions about tying the release of aid to investigation of the Bidens. It would have known that reporters were asking questions about that too, and the White House would have known three House committees announced investigations into whether Trump and Giuliani tried to pressure Ukraine into conducting “politically-motivated investigations under the guise of anti-corruption activity.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/11/scalise-spins-facts-on-security-aid/


Who helped Ukraine's efforts to defend herself more, Obama or Trump?
Click to expand...

That would depend on who weakened the republican party platform on Ukraine as demanded by Putin, Obama or Trump? And who held up aid for Ukraine in an effort to get them to find dirt on Trump's political rival, Obama or Trump.
 
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ok doser said:
in what sick way do you think that will be "fun"?
Click to expand...

Considering how blatantly obvious it is that the Trumplican Party--and its largest voting block, Evangelical Christians--are in the wrong and headed for the appropriate consequences, I can understand those who look forward to the tumbling of the crooks among us with some slight measure of glee, even though I do not necessarily share that sentiment myself.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Barbarian said:
So to review, by the time Trump made the decision to release the aid to Ukraine, the White House would have known that the House intelligence committee had been told about the existence of the whistleblower complaint. It would have known that diplomats like Taylor had raised questions about tying the release of aid to investigation of the Bidens. It would have known that reporters were asking questions about that too, and the White House would have known three House committees announced investigations into whether Trump and Giuliani tried to pressure Ukraine into conducting “politically-motivated investigations under the guise of anti-corruption activity.”
Click to expand...


Trump gave the Ukraines the anti-tank missiles before all of that happened. I keep thinking that at some time you might actually use your brain but you continue to trick your mind into believing the most ridiculous things..

The Barbarian said:
That would depend on who weakened the republican party platform on Ukraine as demanded by Putin, Obama or Trump? And who held up aid for Ukraine in an effort to get them to find dirt on Trump's political rival, Obama or Trump.
Click to expand...

So you actually think that the blankets which Obama sent the Ukraines was more effective in their war with Russia that the anti-tank missiles Trump gave them?

D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L
 
The Barbarian

The Barbarian

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eider said:
Doom of Democrat Party?
Oh dear. How dreadful.
But..... Hang on...... let's wait and see, eh?
This 'doom' may just be another 'fake news'. ....?

Come on.... get real. A party supported by millions of people won't die because various folks are bad. If that was true, just think what would happen to the Republican Party!
Click to expand...

You know, Jerry was telling us the same thing just before the 2018 elections, so that might be something to consider.
 
The Barbarian

The Barbarian

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Jerry Shugart said:
Trump gave the Ukraines the anti-tank missiles before all of that happened.
Click to expand...

No, turns out, he held up the shipment, trying to extort political help from the Ukrainians, until someone blew the whistle on him. No point in denying it.

I keep thinking that at some time you might actually use your brain but you continue to trick your mind into believing the most ridiculous things.

So you actually think that the blankets ( actually which Obama sent the Ukraines
Click to expand...

You've been lied to about that, too...
Between 2014 and 2016, the United States committed more than $600 million in security assistance to Ukraine.

Under Obama, the federal government started the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, which sent other kinds of U.S. military equipment to the country. From 2016 to 2019, Congress appropriated $850 million.

In the last year of the Obama administration, Congress authorized lethal aid, but it didn’t include the Javelins.

The 2016 National Defense Authorization Act, which became law in November 2015, called for "lethal assistance such as anti-armor weapon systems, mortars, crew-served weapons and ammunition, grenade launchers and ammunition, and small arms and ammunition."
https://www.politifact.com/florida/...aetz-says-obama-permanently-stopped-military/

Obama provided precisely what weapons the (republican) Congress authorized. Unlike Trump, who held it up, trying to extort political help from the Ukrainians.

was more effective in their war with Russia...
Click to expand...

... than the weapons that Trump refused to send them? Why yes, of course it was. If you think otherwise, youi're...

...D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L
Click to expand...

Yep.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Barbarian said:
So to review, by the time Trump made the decision to release the aid to Ukraine, the White House would have known that the House intelligence committee had been told about the existence of the whistleblower complaint. It would have known that diplomats like Taylor had raised questions about tying the release of aid to investigation of the Bidens.
Click to expand...

Are you really this uninformed? Trump gave the missiles to the Ukraines which destroy the Russian tanks BEFORE the so-called whistleblower complaint.

The whistleblower complaint happened this year while the Ukraines received those missiles last year.

The Barbarian said:
Between 2014 and 2016, the United States committed more than $600 million in security assistance to Ukraine.
Click to expand...

Obama rejected sending lethal military equipment, such as the Javelin anti-tank missiles and instead approved a $53 million aid package that included vehicles, patrol boats, body armor and night-vision goggles, as well as humanitarian assistance.

According to your uninformed ideas Obama did more that Trump did in order that the Ukraines could defend themselves against the Russians!

Nothing which Obama gave the Ukraines was effective in the slightest degree in defending themselves against Russian tanks! He didn't give them those missiles because he was scared of Russia.

Obama was and is a coward with a big yellow streak right down his back. He threatened an attack if the red line was crossed but when it was crossed he ran away as fast as he could with his tail between his legs!

That must have made you proud to be an American, didn't it?
 
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