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Thread: Which Gospel Preached During the Tribulation Period?

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    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    "The <adj1> <noun1> and the <adj2> <noun1>" always refers to two distinct objects - as far as I'm aware.

    Can you provide a sentence of this structure that refers to the same object?
    Heh?

    The noun remains the same but the adjectives differ? How do you get two objects out of that?

    If this approach were correct, you would not be able to define or teach the Trinity.

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Toxic Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    The noun remains the same but the adjectives differ? How do you get two objects out of that?
    Easy. "The red apple and the green apple". This sentence refers to two different objects even though the noun used (apple) is the same.

    'The gospel to Peter and the gospel to Paul' refers to two different gospels.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Easy. "The red apple and the green apple". This sentence refers to two different objects even though the noun used (apple) is the same.

    'The gospel to Peter and the gospel to Paul' refers to two different gospels.

    There is no difference between the gospel given to Peter or the gospel given to Paul.

    The only distinction made, defines the ministries of Peter and Paul.

    If there are "red/green apples" in this example, they would describe and make distinction between Peter and Paul.

    But both were disciples of the Christ crucified and both preached the Gospel of Grace.
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Toxic Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    There is no difference between the gospel given to Peter or the gospel given to Paul.
    Galatians 2:7 disagrees.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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    Journeyman *Acts9_12Out*'s Avatar
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    Hi Nang,

    You said,

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    There have been different administrations of the one gospel message, down through time.
    Can you please outline what the "one gospel message" throughout time actually is? You continue,

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang
    Noah was given a different ministry than Abraham, and Abraham was given a different ministry than Moses, and Moses was given a different ministry than King David, and King David was give a different ministry than Peter and Paul.
    What do you mean by "different ministry?" Let's try to stay on topic... What was Peter's minstry contrasted with Paul's minstry? Are you saying Peter and Paul preached the same gospel message? Are you implying that Peter, Paul, Noah, Moses and Abraham all preached / believed the same gospel? What would that be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang
    But all of these proclaimed the same, everlasting gospel promises, that were first given to Eve in the garden. (Genesis 3:15)

    A "Seed" from woman, provided by God, would destroy the devil = Christ crucified. (See the fulfillment in Hebrews 2:14-15)

    Nang
    Please clarify here... If you evangelize an unsaved person, what do you tell tell them? What did you believe to become a member of the body of Christ? Please be specific...

    Now, to open another can of worms... To answer the OP, we do have the gospel that was preached during the Tribulation. The Tribulation started on the Day of Pentecost and was suspended approximately 9 months later at the stoning of Stephen. After we clarify what you mean by "gospel" (good news?), we can dig into the Acts material and Peter's sermon at Pentecost.

    God bless,

    Jeremy
    Do you desire to make all men see what is the Dispensation of the Mystery? (Eph 3:9)

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    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Galatians 2:7 disagrees.
    Same gospel. Two different preachers.

    One of Peter's messages to the Jews, said:

    ". . Consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you." II Peter 3:15

    Paul had verified Peter's gospel and had written these Jews the same message that Peter was preaching.
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Does Whatever A Light-House Can Lighthouse's Avatar
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    Jeremy! Jeremy! Jeremy! Jeremy!


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    Quote Originally Posted by *Acts9_12Out* View Post
    Hi Nang, You said, Can you please outline what the "one gospel message" throughout time actually is? You continue, What do you mean by "different ministry?" Let's try to stay on topic... What was Peter's minstry contrasted with Paul's minstry? Are you saying Peter and Paul preached the same gospel message? Are you implying that Peter, Paul, Noah, Moses and Abraham all preached / believed the same gospel? What would that be? Please clarify here... If you evangelize an unsaved person, what do you tell tell them? What did you believe to become a member of the body of Christ? Please be specific...Now, to open another can of worms... To answer the OP, we do have the gospel that was preached during the Tribulation. The Tribulation started on the Day of Pentecost and was suspended approximately 9 months later at the stoning of Stephen. After we clarify what you mean by "gospel" (good news?), we can dig into the Acts material and Peter's sermon at Pentecost. God bless, Jeremy
    Hi, Jeremy.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    There is no difference between the gospel given to Peter or the gospel given to Paul.
    Here Paul speaks about the gospel which he preached among the Gentiles:

    "And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain" (Gal.2:2).

    If there were only "one" gospel then there would be absolutely no reason to specify that the gospel that he is speaking of is the one "which I preach among the Gentiles."

    If the gospel which Paul "preached among the Gentiles" was the same one that the other Apostles were preaching then why would Paul want those Apostles to consider its relationship to the gospel they were proclaiming? That would make no sense.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; September 18th, 2010 at 09:45 AM.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Same gospel. Two different preachers.

    One of Peter's messages to the Jews, said:

    ". . Consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you." II Peter 3:15

    Paul had verified Peter's gospel and had written these Jews the same message that Peter was preaching.
    Yes, but that was not until the Acts period had ended. In the epistle to the Galatians written during the Acts period Paul wrote that those following his teaching were no longer under the law:

    "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster" (Gal.3:23-25).

    At the same time when Paul wrote these words we can see those at the church in Jerusalem remained zealous of the law and even continued to participate in ordinances of the law in the Temple. James said the following to Paul:

    "Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law" (Acts 21:20).

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    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Acts9_12Out* View Post



    Can you please outline what the "one gospel message" throughout time actually is?
    I already did, but I will repeat. The one gospel is the Gospel of Grace that is established upon Godly Covenant promising a Savior that would destroy Satan and overcome death.

    What was Peter's minstry contrasted with Paul's minstry?
    Peter primarily ministered to Jews and Paul primarily ministered to Gentiles; however, there are incidences when their ministries overlapped and Peter taught Gentiles and Paul witnessed to Jews.

    Are you saying Peter and Paul preached the same gospel message?
    Absolutely. There is only one Gospel of Grace.


    Are you implying that Peter, Paul, Noah, Moses and Abraham all preached / believed the same gospel? What would that be?
    Absolutely. They all preached the covenant promises of salvation that would be provided by the grace of God.

    Please clarify here... If you evangelize an unsaved person, what do you tell tell them?
    Very briefly, and in a nutshell, I reiterate the Law in order to reveal to the unsaved that they are sinners before God, but then I tell them the good news that God sent His only begotten Son into this world, under the same Law, to fulfill all the Law for His people on their behalf. And then, as their Mediator and substitute, He went to the cross bearing the sins of His people, and died their death in their stead. Then He overcame death and resurrected back to glory in order to demonstrate His righteousness, victory, and powers over sin, death, and the devil so that sinners might have faith in Him and His grace, to know salvation.


    What did you believe to become a member of the body of Christ? Please be specific...
    I was regenerated by the Holy Spirit of Christ (born again from above) and was given a new heart and new ears and eyes to believe the same gospel message I just posted. When this gospel was preached to me, the Holy Spirit enabled me to believe in Christ and to repent from sin. Now, being anointed by Christ's Holy Spirit, I have been given an earnest (down-payment and guarantee) of everlasting life; Christ being my "surety."

    To answer the OP, we do have the gospel that was preached during the Tribulation. The Tribulation started on the Day of Pentecost and was suspended approximately 9 months later at the stoning of Stephen. After we clarify what you mean by "gospel" (good news?), we can dig into the Acts material and Peter's sermon at Pentecost.
    I do not accept your description of tribulation, nor your time-lines.

    But any and all your dispensational attempts to confuse, will not affect my emphasis . . . that there is only one Gospel of Grace, which is everlasting.

    The Gospel of Grace has been proclaimed by godly men since Genesis and will continue to be proclaimed by godly men until the Lord returns. II Peter 3:14-18

    Nang
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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    Which Gospel Preached During the Tribulation Period?
    The Gospel of the Kingdom, of God's Sovereignty !

    His Sovereignty in Salvation as well as providence. Matt 24:

    14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
    Col 1
    23: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

    It's all over, the end has come and gone!
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Journeyman *Acts9_12Out*'s Avatar
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    Hi Lighthouse!!
    Hi Stripe!!

    Nang,

    You keep trying to muddy the waters... It is necessary to respond to all of your points... You said,

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Same gospel. Two different preachers.

    One of Peter's messages to the Jews, said:

    ". . Consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you." II Peter 3:15

    Paul had verified Peter's gospel and had written these Jews the same message that Peter was preaching.
    No, no, no... You forgot to quote the first half of the next verse...

    2 Peter 3:15, 16a (NKJV)
    15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand,
    You claim that Paul "verified" Peter's gospel... If this is true, why does Peter say Paul's message is difficult to understand? Simple, really... Peter and Paul are preaching different gospels, but the Holy Spirit has confirmed to Peter that Paul's gospel is a valid gospel from the resurrected and ascended Lord Jesus Christ.

    Secondly, do even you know when Paul wrote to the Jews Peter addresses here? I do... If you don't know, how can you claim that Paul "verified" anything Peter preached? I would like to know if you can buttress your argument. If not, I'll show where Paul writes to these Jews and reads them the riot act for being hypocritical. It appears as if these Jews have "gotten their acts together" when Peter addresses them in his second epistle.

    I will quote your next post and respond accordingly...

    God Bless,

    Jeremy
    Do you desire to make all men see what is the Dispensation of the Mystery? (Eph 3:9)

  19. #30
    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Acts9_12Out* View Post


    You claim that Paul "verified" Peter's gospel... If this is true, why does Peter say Paul's message is difficult to understand?
    The verse does not say it was "Paul's message" that was hard to understand. The context of the passage refers to the promise of "the new heavens and new earth" and the supposed delay and "longsuffering" of God, as being hard to understand. Remember, Peter was addressing false prophets that scoffed at the delay of the Lord's return, and it was this subject that was causing distress amongst the saints.


    Simple, really... Peter and Paul are preaching different gospels,
    This is merely your assertion that violates the entire context of II Peter.

    but the Holy Spirit has confirmed to Peter that Paul's gospel is a valid gospel from the resurrected and ascended Lord Jesus Christ.
    Indeed. And I say it is the same gospel message that Peter was preaching throughout his epistle.

    Secondly, do even you know when Paul wrote to the Jews Peter addresses here? I do... If you don't know, how can you claim that Paul "verified" anything Peter preached?
    Scripture reveals Paul had written many epistles to these Jews. II Peter 3:16

    If not, I'll show where Paul writes to these Jews and reads them the riot act for being hypocritical. It appears as if these Jews have "gotten their acts together" when Peter addresses them in his second epistle.
    What do Paul's actions as an Elder have to do with the Everlasting Gospel of Grace we now discuss?



    I will quote your next post and respond accordingly...
    Go for it . . .
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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