Does God know the future?
- Thread starter intro2faith
- Start date
:darwinsm: ROTFL.... do you have no shame? I asked this question before you even responded!Z Man said:
It must suck to be you!
I will try for a third time . . .
YES or NO, am I (as a heretic Open Theist) fulfilling God's perfect plan for me that He created a millennia ago?
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death2impiety
Maximeee's Husband
I haven't assumed anything, I've defended why I believe it is so. If my logic is wrong please refute it. (in a manner that I can understand
)I cannot :dunce: why don't you.
I'd have to read it in its context. I am not familiar with this. Let me know the verses and I'll do some reading.
death, predestine means for knwoledge. God has foreknowledge because he eternal.
Eternal is the similtaneous posseion of all life. I an similtaneos moment all life is layed before God.
We cannot comprehend this because as humans we experience existence in time. This is why you keep thinking of god as knowing something frozen in time.
he knows the choices we will make but he doesn't choose for us.
Eternal is the similtaneous posseion of all life. I an similtaneos moment all life is layed before God.
We cannot comprehend this because as humans we experience existence in time. This is why you keep thinking of god as knowing something frozen in time.
he knows the choices we will make but he doesn't choose for us.
death2impiety
Maximeee's Husband
Okay you toned down the esoteric wordage only to rush through your post and I'm having trouble deciphering it....
Why? What does one have to do with the other?
You'll have to reiterate...
I agree that as a human my knowledge is limited, There is no logical way to explain God's infinite presence in the universe. I can't attempt to understand or explain it. On this subject, my argument seems logical. I'm still waiting for a cogent rebuttal. I need examples and lengthy explanation...one sentence won't do it for me
My argument for this is clear and has yet to be refuted.
Why? What does one have to do with the other?
You'll have to reiterate...
I agree that as a human my knowledge is limited, There is no logical way to explain God's infinite presence in the universe. I can't attempt to understand or explain it. On this subject, my argument seems logical. I'm still waiting for a cogent rebuttal. I need examples and lengthy explanation...one sentence won't do it for me
My argument for this is clear and has yet to be refuted.
nancy said:
Circular reasoning/begging the question= assuming what you are trying to prove using your unique definitions and preconceptions. Catholicism is not always biblical/Scripture. Tradition and papal decree, philosophical influences from Greeks/Augustine are filters that can distort sound exegesis.
What's circular about it? It is similar to a similtaneous present moment when we watch the beginning and end of a football game.
We observe the choices the players make and outcome of the game, but as a spectator we don't handle the ball or decide the team's strategy for them.
Godrulz, you used the term corporal elect. Define what it means.
We observe the choices the players make and outcome of the game, but as a spectator we don't handle the ball or decide the team's strategy for them.
Godrulz, you used the term corporal elect. Define what it means.
Z Man
New member
Shouldn't God be the 'beauty'?death2impiety said:
Why is control important to you?
Doesn't being a Christian mean God's in control?
Why does that matter? Who cares?I'm sorry to have lost you here, I'll try to make it more cogent.
If we have free will, than there are a myriad of choices associated with each individuals existance. If God knows the future than he knows all the choices you'll be confronted with, along with what your eventual action will be. If God knows that tomorrow I'm going to witness to someone and lead them to Christ, its been predetermined. My action is already set and there is nothing I can do about (unless God's perfect foreknowledge is fallable
Does God know that in 1010 years a [specific] boy will pick up a [specific] apple?
If the answer is yes, can that boy choose not to pick it up?
If the answer is that God knows he will not pick up the apple can he choose to pick it up?
Here's my thinking; If it was predetermined for the boy to pick up the apple, he's going to do it anyways. When the time comes, the boy picks up the apple because he chose to, and yet, it was predestined long before time began. To make oneself feel more in 'control' they will say that they excersiced their 'freewill' to pick up that apple. But in all reality, God's the one in control, not us.
It's not about us; it's all about God. He's doing as He sees fit to bring about whatever it is He so desires. Freewill is simply something humans make up to make themselves feel like they are in control. But, in all reality, it doesn't exist. You have no control over your life whatsoever. You cannot stop sinning, you cannot stop working, you cannot stop eating, you cannot even stop death. You have NO CONTROL. You make choices because you HAVE to, not because you're 'free' to make them.
Z Man . . .
YES or NO, am I (as a heretic Open Theist) fulfilling God's perfect plan for me that He created a millennia ago?
YES or NO, am I (as a heretic Open Theist) fulfilling God's perfect plan for me that He created a millennia ago?
Agape4Robin
Member
:thumb: Well said!Z Man said:
Unfortuneatly it will go in one "eye" and out the other! :chuckle:
Which leads us back to . . .Z Man said:
YES or NO, am I (as a heretic Open Theist) fulfilling God's perfect plan for me that He created a millennia ago?
Agape4Robin
Member
:doh: :nono:
You can't (don't want to) answer either eh Robin?Agape4Robin said:
Z Man
New member
How many times do I have to post it before you can read it?Knight said:
Now the real discussion behind this question is the fact that you believe if God did 'control everything', you would not be responsible. Instead, God would be responsible for your actions/choices. However, I have brought in Scripture that clearly and most obviously states that even though God is in complete control, we are still held accountable.
The ball is in your court, as always Knight. And, as always, everytime I present Scripture, you back away. Are you man enough this time to stand up and accept the truth, or will you continue to be stubborn and close-minded and debate agianst the everlasting truth of God's Holy Word?
drbrumley
Well-known member
ZMan
If God is in control of us and every thing else, why did Lucifer fall? Why did Isreal reject Jesus?
God had to know what was running thru thier minds, Isreal and Lucifer, right?
Don't give me the "I don't know" answer.
I mean, it was God perfect plan wasn't it?
If God is in control of us and every thing else, why did Lucifer fall? Why did Isreal reject Jesus?
God had to know what was running thru thier minds, Isreal and Lucifer, right?
Don't give me the "I don't know" answer.
I mean, it was God perfect plan wasn't it?
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Agape4Robin
Member
Why?Knight said:
How would I know?
Why is that?Z Man said:
Only a couple posts ago you stated.....
Therefore,
YES or NO, am I (as a heretic Open Theist) fulfilling God's perfect plan for me that He created a millennia ago?
Your statement of . . .
Would certainly indicate that you would answer this question with a "YES" (Yes, I am fulfilling God's perfect plan for me) since you assert that I have no control over my life whatsoever therefore I have no control over being a heretic Open Theist.
It seems to me then that this is a highly answerable question for you but you refuse to answer the question because it demonstrates how you inherently believe in freewill. You can't help but be frustrated with my belief in open theology even though you claim I have no control over it.
So humor us Z Man . . .
YES or NO, am I (as a heretic Open Theist) fulfilling God's perfect plan for me that He created a millennia ago?
Agape4Robin
Member
So, Lucifer's fall means God is no longer in control? Didn't Jesus demonstrate this when Lazarus died? Mary said that if He'd (Jesus) been there, her brother wouldn't have died. Then He demonstrated that nothing was out of His control! Even death! Also proved in His own resurrection!drbrumley said:
Israel is a picture of the believer, but the story is not over. The end of these things has not yet come and God will be glorified!
Didn't you (just a couple posts ago) applaud Z Man for posting....Agape4Robin said:
For that post you said....
Based on that, you should be able to answer the question . . .
YES or NO, am I (as a heretic Open Theist) fulfilling God's perfect plan for me that He created a millennia ago?
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