PureX needs to apologize for his lie.

Poly · Jun 29, 2005

PureX made this statement in another thread.

PureX said:
Actually, if you encourage someone to commit a violent crime, and they do, you can be prosecuted for it. It's difficult to prove, though, that someone did the crime because of your encouragement, and rightly so.

Bob Enyart should be very careful in how he talks about killing homosexuals. If one of his devotees ever actually does so, he may well be charged with complicity to commit murder.

Please show us where Bob has encouraged his "devotees" to kill homosexuals or to commit murder. If you can do so, I will publically apologize to you for creating this thread. If you cannot, I expect you to apologize for your deliberate misrepresentation of Bob Enyart.

PureX · Jun 29, 2005

I didn't say that he did. I'm only pointing out that he should be careful how he promotes his own hatred of homosexuality, because he could be held liable if one of his followers acts out on his ideas, thinking that he was being "instructed" to do so.

Poly · Jun 29, 2005

PureX said:
I didn't say that he did. I'm only pointing out that he should be careful how he promotes his own hatred of homosexuality, because he could be held liable if one of his followers acts out on his ideas, thinking that he was being "instructed" to do so.

This is what liars tend to do. Cover up one lie with another. You didn't say he should be careful how he promotes his own hatred of homosexuality, you said...

PureX said:
Actually, if you encourage someone to commit a violent crime, and they do, you can be prosecuted for it. It's difficult to prove, though, that someone did the crime because of your encouragement, and rightly so.

Bob Enyart should be very careful in how he talks about killing homosexuals. If one of his devotees ever actually does so, he may well be charged with complicity to commit murder.

PureX · Jun 29, 2005

Doesn't he talk about killing homosexuals? I've seen a dozen references on TOL about how Bob promotes the death penalty for the sin of homosexuality. I have never heard his show, but I doubt all the people who posted about it are lying.

Granite · Jun 29, 2005

He does but I can see a distinction between talking about "killing" and "executing" them.

PureX · Jun 29, 2005

granite1010 said:
He does but I can see a distinction between talking about "killing" and "executing" them.

Yes. There was a similar case here in Chicago of a racist who ran some sort of church based on racist dogma, and one of his followers went on a killing spree thinking that his "leader" wanted him to do it, and the "leader" is now sitting in prison. I don't recall the specifics, but I do know that people can be charged with promoting violent crime when one of the their followers acts on that promotion. It's tough to prove, though.

Crow · Jun 29, 2005

PureX said:
Doesn't he talk about killing homosexuals? I've seen a dozen references on TOL about how Bob promotes the death penalty for the sin of homosexuality. I have never heard his show, but I doubt all the people who posted about it are lying.

Do you see any instances in which Bob supports vigalante killings? I haven't. I have always heard Bob Enyart promote the government as the agent for administering justice. He promotes that the government recriminalize homosexual sex, and capital punishment for such, just as he promotes that the government should recriminalize abortion but does not encourage people to run out an murder abortionists.

Army of One · Jun 29, 2005

PureX said:
Yes. there was a similar case here in Chicago of a racists who ran some sort of church based on racist dogma, and one of his followers went on a killing spree thinking that his "leader" wanted him to do it, and the "leader" is now sitting in prison. I don't recall the specifics, but I do know that people can be charged with promoting violent crime when one of the their followers acts on that promotion. It's tough to prove, though.

The problem is, as often as Enyart advocates the death penalty for homosexuality, he also stresses that only the governing authorities have been delegated to power to carry out such a sentence. He never hesitates to condemn vigilantism (sp?).

Army of One · Jun 29, 2005

Crow said:
Do you see any instances in which Bob supports vigalante killings? I haven't. I have always heard Bob Enyart promote the government as the agent for administering justice. He promotes that the government recriminalize homosexual sex, and capital punishment for such, just as he promotes that the government should recriminalize abortion but does not encourage people to run out an murder abortionists.

You beat me to it.

beanieboy · Jun 29, 2005

Unfortunately, people come to the conclusion that God hates gay people, and Leviticus calls for the death penalty, so they see no reason not to kill them.

Justin (Wiccan) · Jun 29, 2005

beanieboy said:
Unfortunately, people come to the conclusion that God hates gay people, and Leviticus calls for the death penalty, so they see no reason not to kill them.

That's an awfully broad brush. Frankly, I don't think a single homosexual has been killed in the US under such circumstances: if I am correct, that also makes your statement somewhat dishonest.

Hasan_ibn_Sabah · Jun 29, 2005

Advocating genocide on a website is illegal in many countries, such illegal activity could get this site blocked in the E.U. Great Britian and Australia, and is not considered protected speech in the United States. It doesn't really matter if individuals on this board interpet it one way or another - what matter is - how the law interpets it. If the law finds that anyone was lead to commit a criminal act under the implied instruction of a authority figure - it becomes criminal conspiracy

PureX · Jun 29, 2005

Crow said:
Do you see any instances in which Bob supports vigalante killings? I haven't. I have always heard Bob Enyart promote the government as the agent for administering justice. He promotes that the government recriminalize homosexual sex, and capital punishment for such, just as he promotes that the government should recriminalize abortion but does not encourage people to run out an murder abortionists.

I don't think it matters whether or not Bob intends that someone commit a crime on his behalf. I think he can still be held liable, if the person who commits such a crime thinks he was being instructed to do the crime. I doubt that could be proven, however, if Bob doesn't directly promote such a thing. But it's a sticky area, and if I'm not mistaken this guy in Illinois was convicted for just such a thing.

Poly · Jun 29, 2005

Hasan_ibn_Sabah said:
Advocating genocide on a website is illegal in many countries, such illegal activity could get this site blocked in the E.U. Great Britian and Australia, and is not considered protected speech in the United States. It doesn't really matter if individuals on this board interpet it one way or another - what matter is - how the law interpets it. If the law finds that anyone was lead to commit a criminal act under the implied instruction of a authority figure - it becomes criminal conspiracy

Nobody is advocating genocide. This thread has to do with PureX falsely accusing Bob of encouraging his "devotees" to kill homosexuals. If you can't stay on topic your posts will be deleted.

PureX · Jun 29, 2005

Poly said:
Nobody is advocating genocide. This thread has to do with PureX falsely accusing Bob of encouraging his "devotees" to kill homosexuals.

Except that I didn't accuse Bob of "encouraging" his devotees of killing homosexuals. You should read more carefully and ASK me what I mean before you go seeking apologies.

Hasan_ibn_Sabah · Jun 29, 2005

PureX - it doesnt have to a direct instruction or promotion according to the law for it to be criminal conspriracy - all it has to be is implied according to the law. It doesn't have to be "Go kill all homos", but "I think all homos should be executed" and if a person goes out and does it under those implied instructions - that is enough according to the law.

Justin (Wiccan) · Jun 29, 2005

Poly said:
Nobody is advocating genocide. This thread has to do with PureX falsely accusing Bob of encouraging his "devotees" to kill homosexuals. If you can't stay on topic your posts will be deleted.

Poly, if PureX was "being dishonest" in his post, then this post is also "dishonest." Purex said nothing about "encouraging" people to kill homosexuals.

PureX · Jun 29, 2005

Hasan_ibn_Sabah said:
PureX - it doesnt have to a direct instruction or promotion according to the law for it to be criminal conspriracy - all it has to be is implied according to the law. It doesn't have to be "Go kill all homos", but "I think all homos should be executed" and if a person goes out and does it under those implied instructions - that is enough according to the law.

I understand. In fact, this is what I was trying to point out.

intro2faith · Jun 29, 2005

Poly said:
PureX made this statement in another thread.

Please show us where Bob has encouraged his "devotees" to kill homosexuals or to commit murder. If you can do so, I will publically apologize to you for creating this thread. If you cannot, I expect you to apologize for your deliberate misrepresentation of Bob Enyart.

Why do you want PureX to apologize so badly? Are you...holding a grudge perhaps? :chuckle:

Poly · Jun 29, 2005

Justin (Wiccan) said:
Poly, if PureX was "being dishonest" in his post, then this post is also "dishonest." Purex said nothing about "encouraging" people to kill homosexuals.

Yes he did.

PureX said:
Actually, if you encourage someone to commit a violent crime, and they do, you can be prosecuted for it. It's difficult to prove, though, that someone did the crime because of your encouragement, and rightly so.

Bob Enyart should be very careful in how he talks about killing homosexuals. If one of his devotees ever actually does so, he may well be charged with complicity to commit murder.

PureX needs to apologize for his lie.

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