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Thread: The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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    REPERCUSSIONS OF DEFAULT



    75:5.1 Eve's disillusionment was truly pathetic. Adam discerned the whole predicament and, while heartbroken and dejected, entertained only pity and sympathy for his erring mate.

    75:5.2 It was in the despair of the realization of failure that Adam, the day after Eve's misstep, sought out Laotta, the brilliant Nodite woman who was head of the western schools of the Garden, and with premeditation committed the folly of Eve. But do not misunderstand; Adam was not beguiled; he knew exactly what he was about; he deliberately chose to share the fate of Eve. He loved his mate with a supermortal affection, and the thought of the possibility of a lonely vigil on Urantia without her was more than he could endure.

    75:5.3 When they learned what had happened to Eve, the infuriated inhabitants of the Garden became unmanageable; they declared war on the near-by Nodite settlement. They swept out through the gates of Eden and down upon these unprepared people, utterly destroying them—not a man, woman, or child was spared. And Cano, the father of Cain yet unborn, also perished.

    75:5.4 Upon the realization of what had happened, Serapatatia was overcome with consternation and beside himself with fear and remorse. The next day he drowned himself in the great river.

    75:5.5 The children of Adam sought to comfort their distracted mother while their father wandered in solitude for thirty days. At the end of that time judgment asserted itself, and Adam returned to his home and began to plan for their future course of action.

    75:5.6 The consequences of the follies of misguided parents are so often shared by their innocent children. The upright and noble sons and daughters of Adam and Eve were overwhelmed by the inexplicable sorrow of the unbelievable tragedy which had been so suddenly and so ruthlessly thrust upon them. Not in fifty years did the older of these children recover from the sorrow and sadness of those tragic days, especially the terror of that period of thirty days during which their father was absent from home while their distracted mother was in complete ignorance of his whereabouts or fate.

    Le Paradis perdu (Paradise lost) by Thierry Caro 75:5.7 And those same thirty days were as long years of sorrow and suffering to Eve. Never did this noble soul fully recover from the effects of that excruciating period of mental suffering and spiritual sorrow. No feature of their subsequent deprivations and material hardships ever began to compare in Eve's memory with those terrible days and awful nights of loneliness and unbearable uncertainty. She learned of the rash act of Serapatatia and did not know whether her mate had in sorrow destroyed himself or had been removed from the world in retribution for her misstep. And when Adam returned, Eve experienced a satisfaction of joy and gratitude that never was effaced by their long and difficult life partnership of toiling service.

    75:5.8 Time passed, but Adam was not certain of the nature of their offense until seventy days after the default of Eve, when the Melchizedek receivers returned to Urantia and assumed jurisdiction over world affairs. And then he knew they had failed.

    75:5.9 But still more trouble was brewing: The news of the annihilation of the Nodite settlement near Eden was not slow in reaching the home tribes of Serapatatia to the north, and presently a great host was assembling to march on the Garden. And this was the beginning of a long and bitter warfare between the Adamites and the Nodites, for these hostilities kept up long after Adam and his followers emigrated to the second garden in the Euphrates valley. There was intense and lasting "enmity between that man and the woman, between his seed and her seed."


    ADAM AND EVE LEAVE THE GARDEN



    75:6.1 When Adam learned that the Nodites were on the march, he sought the counsel of the Melchizedeks, but they refused to advise him, only telling him to do as he thought best and promising their friendly co-operation, as far as possible, in any course he might decide upon. The Melchizedeks had been forbidden to interfere with the personal plans of Adam and Eve.

    75:6.2 Adam knew that he and Eve had failed; the presence of the Melchizedek receivers told him that, though he still knew nothing of their personal status or future fate. He held an all-night conference with some twelve hundred loyal followers who pledged themselves to follow their leader, and the next day at noon these pilgrims went forth from Eden in quest of new homes. Adam had no liking for war and accordingly elected to leave the first garden to the Nodites unopposed.

    75:6.3 The Edenic caravan was halted on the third day out from the Garden by the arrival of the seraphic transports from Jerusem. And for the first time Adam and Eve were informed of what was to become of their children. While the transports stood by, those children who had arrived at the age of choice (twenty years) were given the option of remaining on Urantia with their parents or of becoming wards of the Most Highs of Norlatiadek. Two thirds chose to go to Edentia; about one third elected to remain with their parents. All children of prechoice age were taken to Edentia. No one could have beheld the sorrowful parting of this Material Son and Daughter and their children without realizing that the way of the transgressor is hard. These offspring of Adam and Eve are now on Edentia; we do not know what disposition is to be made of them.

    75:6.4 It was a sad, sad caravan that prepared to journey on. Could anything have been more tragic! To have come to a world in such high hopes, to have been so auspiciously received, and then to go forth in disgrace from Eden, only to lose more than three fourths of their children even before finding a new abiding place!

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    ......195:8.8 "It is not necessary to sacrifice faith in God in order to enjoy the blessings of the modern secularistic revolt: tolerance, social service, democratic government, and civil liberties. It was not necessary for the secularists to antagonize true religion in order to promote science and to advance education.

    195:8.9 But secularism is not the sole parent of all these recent gains in the enlargement of living. Behind the gains of the twentieth century are not only science and secularism but also the unrecognized and unacknowledged spiritual workings of the life and teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.

    195:8.10 Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace.

    195:8.11 The inherent weakness of secularism is that it discards ethics and religion for politics and power. You simply cannot establish the brotherhood of men while ignoring or denying the fatherhood of God.

    195:8.12 Secular social and political optimism is an illusion. Without God, neither freedom and liberty, nor property and wealth will lead to peace.

    195:8.13 The complete secularization of science, education, industry, and society can lead only to disaster. During the first third of the twentieth century Urantians killed more human beings than were killed during the whole of the Christian dispensation up to that time. And this is only the beginning of the dire harvest of materialism and secularism; still more terrible destruction is yet to come."......

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Red face Free will liberties...........

    ~*~*~

    Continuing discussion on 'free will', linked to the 'Free Will' thread here - the idea that individual free will is 'sovereign' as far as pertains to one's own personal destiny challenges some concepts of God's sovereignty especially within Calvinist theology, where everything is predetermined by God, thus apparently limiting or wholly nullifying any sense of true libertarian freedom.

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    6. MATERIALISM


    195:6.1 Scientists have unintentionally precipitated mankind into a materialistic panic; they have started an unthinking run on the moral bank of the ages, but this bank of human experience has vast spiritual resources; it can stand the demands being made upon it. Only unthinking men become panicky about the spiritual assets of the human race. When the materialistic-secular panic is over, the religion of Jesus will not be found bankrupt. The spiritual bank of the kingdom of heaven will be paying out faith, hope, and moral security to all who draw upon it “in his name.”

    195:6.2 No matter what the apparent conflict between materialism and the teachings of Jesus may be, you can rest assured that, in the ages to come, the teachings of the Master will fully triumph. In reality, true religion cannot become involved in any controversy with science; it is in no way concerned with material things. Religion is simply indifferent to, but sympathetic with, science, while it supremely concerns itself with the scientist.

    195:6.3 The pursuit of mere knowledge, without the attendant interpretation of wisdom and the spiritual insight of religious experience, eventually leads to pessimism and human despair. A little knowledge is truly disconcerting.

    195:6.4 At the time of this writing the worst of the materialistic age is over; the day of a better understanding is already beginning to dawn. The higher minds of the scientific world are no longer wholly materialistic in their philosophy, but the rank and file of the people still lean in that direction as a result of former teachings. But this age of physical realism is only a passing episode in man's life on earth. Modern science has left true religion—the teachings of Jesus as translated in the lives of his believers—untouched. All science has done is to destroy the childlike illusions of the misinterpretations of life.

    195:6.5 Science is a quantitative experience, religion a qualitative experience, as regards man's life on earth. Science deals with phenomena; religion, with origins, values, and goals. To assign causes as an explanation of physical phenomena is to confess ignorance of ultimates and in the end only leads the scientist straight back to the first great cause—the Universal Father of Paradise.

    195:6.6 The violent swing from an age of miracles to an age of machines has proved altogether upsetting to man. The cleverness and dexterity of the false philosophies of mechanism belie their very mechanistic contentions. The fatalistic agility of the mind of a materialist forever disproves his assertions that the universe is a blind and purposeless energy phenomenon.

    195:6.7 The mechanistic naturalism of some supposedly educated men and the thoughtless secularism of the man in the street are both exclusively concerned with things; they are barren of all real values, sanctions, and satisfactions of a spiritual nature, as well as being devoid of faith, hope, and eternal assurances. One of the great troubles with modern life is that man thinks he is too busy to find time for spiritual meditation and religious devotion.

    195:6.8 Materialism reduces man to a soulless automaton and constitutes him merely an arithmetical symbol finding a helpless place in the mathematical formula of an unromantic and mechanistic universe. But whence comes all this vast universe of mathematics without a Master Mathematician? Science may expatiate on the conservation of matter, but religion validates the conservation of men's souls—it concerns their experience with spiritual realities and eternal values.

    195:6.9 The materialistic sociologist of today surveys a community, makes a report thereon, and leaves the people as he found them. Nineteen hundred years ago, unlearned Galileans surveyed Jesus giving his life as a spiritual contribution to man's inner experience and then went out and turned the whole Roman Empire upside down.

    195:6.10 But religious leaders are making a great mistake when they try to call modern man to spiritual battle with the trumpet blasts of the Middle Ages. Religion must provide itself with new and up-to-date slogans. Neither democracy nor any other political panacea will take the place of spiritual progress. False religions may represent an evasion of reality, but Jesus in his gospel introduced mortal man to the very entrance upon an eternal reality of spiritual progression.

    195:6.11 To say that mind “emerged” from matter explains nothing. If the universe were merely a mechanism and mind were unapart from matter, we would never have two differing interpretations of any observed phenomenon. The concepts of truth, beauty, and goodness are not inherent in either physics or chemistry. A machine cannot know, much less know truth, hunger for righteousness, and cherish goodness.

    195:6.12 Science may be physical, but the mind of the truth-discerning scientist is at once supermaterial. Matter knows not truth, neither can it love mercy nor delight in spiritual realities. Moral convictions based on spiritual enlightenment and rooted in human experience are just as real and certain as mathematical deductions based on physical observations, but on another and higher level.

    195:6.13 If men were only machines, they would react more or less uniformly to a material universe. Individuality, much less personality, would be nonexistent.

    195:6.14 The fact of the absolute mechanism of Paradise at the center of the universe of universes, in the presence of the unqualified volition of the Second Source and Center, makes forever certain that determiners are not the exclusive law of the cosmos. Materialism is there, but it is not exclusive; mechanism is there, but it is not unqualified; determinism is there, but it is not alone.

    195:6.15 The finite universe of matter would eventually become uniform and deterministic but for the combined presence of mind and spirit. The influence of the cosmic mind constantly injects spontaneity into even the material worlds.

    195:6.16 Freedom or initiative in any realm of existence is directly proportional to the degree of spiritual influence and cosmic-mind control; that is, in human experience, the degree of the actuality of doing “the Father's will.” And so, when you once start out to find God, that is the conclusive proof that God has already found you.

    195:6.17 The sincere pursuit of goodness, beauty, and truth leads to God. And every scientific discovery demonstrates the existence of both freedom and uniformity in the universe. The discoverer was free to make the discovery. The thing discovered is real and apparently uniform, or else it could not have become known as a thing.

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Ok Freelight ,

    You could have explained yourself on my thread, so-

    What is this UB malarkey from the pit of hell?

    Without the blood of Christ shed at the cross, none would ever be saved from the fires of hell.

    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freelight View Post
    ~*~*~

    Continuing discussion on 'free will', linked to the 'Free Will' thread here - the idea that individual free will is 'sovereign' as far as pertains to one's own personal destiny challenges some concepts of God's sovereignty especially within Calvinist theology, where everything is predetermined by God, thus apparently limiting or wholly nullifying any sense of true libertarian freedom.
    Who is our God if not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the MOST HIGH in the creation. The Son of Man, who according to our concepts of one directional linear time, is still currently developing within the great pregnant androgynous body of Eve, (Mankind).

    Just as we all are held accountable for the sins of the flesh in which we, the invisible minds/spirits are developing, so too the Son of Man Holds himself accountable for the sins of the body in which he developed.

    And it is he, who was chosen to serve the great god before the body of Adam into all eternity, and it is he and he alone, who can pay the penalty for the sinful body in which he developed.

    Thank God that the life of the woman, who gives birth to he who crushes the head of Satan, isjustified by the child that she bears.

    Psalms Psalm 51:5King James Version (KJV) The spirit cries out: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.


    It was he who descended from the ends of this age of Man, who Abraham chose as his God, and who know everything that you have done according to your own free will, which you have done in his past.

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    The God who made the agreement with Abram through Melchizedek is the one and only God of all mankind.

    The Urantia revelation was sanctioned by the Son of God, it's the latest revelation to our fallen world with its confused religions.

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caino View Post
    The God who made the agreement with Abram through Melchizedek is the one and only God of all mankind.

    The Urantia revelation was sanctioned by the Son of God, it's the latest revelation to our fallen world with its confused religions.
    No, its satanic.

    One can not live righteously pleasing to God in this life by receiving and living on the fanciful ideas of men.

    The ideas of men are a hindrance to receiving Gods life changing Word.

    Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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    Post Repentance is what is KEY.........

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    Ok Freelight ,

    You could have explained yourself on my thread, so-

    What is this UB malarkey from the pit of hell?
    Hello LA,

    I shall get to your thread when I have the time, but be assured that you will be properly and responsibly addressed - this is a very significant subject, deeply symbolic and figurative. My initial 2 part commentary on 'atonement without blood' can be found in my TOL blog here, the last 2 entries at the time I am writing this. It was originally posted in one of EE's threads but he closed the thread, so I blogged these important posts.

    I will direct you to this post here for the UB's teaching on this, some articles from Jewish sources and others about blood atonement, the Eucharist, the means of how one obtains forgiveness, etc. - important to follow/read all the links within the posts as they relate to the greater context of our study here.

    Questioning the necessity for blood-sacrifice (killing an innocent victim, animal or man) is certainly NOT an idea from the 'pit of hell'
    , but one of spiritual intelligence and a higher way to purity and God-consciousness (via the route of 'repentance' which nullifies the need for the suffering of an innocent victim!), since blood-sacrifice appeals more to the carnally-minded, even though this gesture may symbolize something psychically or spiritually taking place within the soul, figuratively speaking as I shared earlier in my 2-part dissertation. (remember what the true sacrifices acceptable to God are? a humble heart and a contrite spirit, the surrender of the soul in utmost humility, the dying of the 'self' before God, so the spirit-man can rise in newness of life, resurrect from the ashes, etc.) Its about the soul re-turning to God, re-turning to Right DOING, as this is the ONLY way back to God and his laws,...REPENTANCE. - the soul-life of the sinner is returned back to God as the ego dies, the flesh DIES, is crucified as it were, and the soul is renewed and rises in the strength of the spirit, renewed to life, restored to righteousness.

    Without the blood of Christ shed at the cross, none would ever be saved from the fires of hell.
    Well, again,...thats what can be debated, the nature of 'atonement' itself (and its various means). The shedding of blood per OT law and temple customs, did NOT atone for all sins, only unintentional ones, AND there are different examples of people having their sins 'atoned' for APART from bloodshed. All this focus on blood without proper spiritual understanding seems to be a 'carnal' fixation'. Even still...only the LIFE of God via His Spirit is our life, our salvation, our inspiration, or renewing, our resurrection-power. Spirit is Life! Furthermore, blood in and of itself has no power, besides one's faith in it to do anything (still its but figurative), so its symbolic meaning is what is important, and what it translates to within the soul, by inner transformation. One can shed all the blood he likes, slaughter a thousand animals, have dozens of demi-gods or avatars self-sacrifice themselves,....but what truly avails for a soul, is when they themselves sacrifice their own self, make their own 'at-one-ment' with God by total surrender to His will, and repent rightfully....this is WHAT AVAILS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freelight View Post
    Hello LA,

    I shall get to your thread when I have the time, but be assured that you will be properly and responsibly addressed - this is a very significant subject, deeply symbolic and figurative. My initial 2 part commentary on 'atonement without blood' can be found in my TOL blog here, the last 2 entries at the time I am writing this. It was originally posted in one of EE's threads but he closed the thread, so I blogged these important posts.

    I will direct you to this post here for the UB's teaching on this, some articles from Jewish sources and others about blood atonement, the Eucharist, the means of how one's obtains forgiveness, etc. - important to follow/read all the links within the posts as they relate to the greater context of our study here.

    Questioning the necessity for blood-sacrifice (killing an innocent victim, animal or man) is certainly NOT an idea from the 'pit of hell'
    , but one of spiritual intelligence and a higher way to purity and God-consciousness (via the route of 'repentance' which nullifies the need for the suffering of an innocent victim!), since blood-sacrifice appeals more to the carnally-minded, even though this gesture may symbolize something psychically or spiritually taking place within the soul, figuratively speaking as I shared earlier in my 2-part dissertation. (remember what the true sacrifices acceptable to God are? a humble heart and a contrite spirit, the surrender of the soul in utmost humility, the dying of the 'self' before God, so the spirit-man can rise in newness of life, resurrect from the ashes, etc.) Its about the soul re-turning to God, re-turning to Right DOING, as this is the ONLY way back to God and his laws,...REPENTANCE. - the soul-life of the sinner is returned back to God as the ego dies, the flesh DIES, is crucified as it were, and the soul is renewed and rises in the strength of the spirit, renewed to life, restored to righteousness.



    Well, again,...thats what can be debated, the nature of 'atonement' itself (and its various means). The shedding of blood per OT law and temple customs, did NOT atone for all sins, only unintentional ones, AND there are different examples of people having their sins 'atoned' for APART from bloodshed. All this focus on blood without proper spiritual understanding seems to be a 'carnal' fixation'. Even still...only the LIFE of God via His Spirit is our life, our salvation, our inspiration, or renewing, our resurrection-power. Spirit is Life! Furthermore, blood in and of itself has no power, besides one's faith in it to do anything (still its but figurative), so its symbolic meaning is what is important, and what it translates to within the soul, by inner transformation. One can shed all the blood he likes, slaughter a thousand animals, have dozens of demi-gods or avatars self-sacrifice themselves,....but what truly avails for a soul, is when they themselves sacrifice their own self, make their own 'at-one-ment' with God by total surrender to His will, and repent rightfully....this is WHAT AVAILS.
    What a great post! : Thumb: I totally agree!

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    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Urantia vs bible?


    Urantia book 186:5.2 “It was man and not God who planned and executed the death of Jesus on the cross. True, the Father refused to interfere with the march of human events on Urantia, but the Father in Paradise did not decree, demand, or require the death of his Son as it was carried out on earth.”
    Acts 2:23-25”Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; “whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. “For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
    186:5.7 “Jesus is not about to die as a sacrifice for sin. He is not going to atone for the inborn moral guilt of the human race. Mankind has no such racial guilt before God. Guilt is purely a matter of personal sin and knowing, deliberate rebellion against the will of the Father and the administration of his Sons” (bold mine).

    I choose God, himself through his word:

    Last edited by TulipBee; February 25th, 2017 at 10:09 AM.

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    “And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.”
    —Judges 1:19

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Lightbulb Recognizing VALUE......which is real worship.......

    Quote Originally Posted by TulipBee View Post
    Urantia vs bible?


    Urantia book 186:5.2 “It was man and not God who planned and executed the death of Jesus on the cross. True, the Father refused to interfere with the march of human events on Urantia, but the Father in Paradise did not decree, demand, or require the death of his Son as it was carried out on earth.”
    Its not really a matter of the UB vs. the Bible here, since there are other religious texts that do NOT support the efficacy of 'blood atonement', even verses in the Bible itself, although it uses the blood of Christ as 'symbolic' of a cleansing, redeeming life-giving sacrifice, yet there are various ways to 'interpret' it. I think you need to read all the commmentaries and the links in them that I've provided so far, instead of just cherry picking this or that just to CONTEST whatever is written. ALSO, there are various conceptual definitions or kinds of 'atonement' posited about the death of Jesus, so this isnt something written in stone,...its 'figurative', 'allegorical'.

    You might also want to read any passage 'in context' like the whole part 5 of Paper 186 here.

    Here is some more passage in the section you quote from -

    186:5.4 The gospel of the good news that mortal man may, by faith, become spirit-conscious that he is a son of God, is not dependent on the death of Jesus. True, indeed, all this gospel of the kingdom has been tremendously illuminated by the Master's death, but even more so by his life.

    ~*~*~

    186:5.8 Sin and rebellion have nothing to do with the fundamental bestowal plan of the Paradise Sons of God, albeit it does appear to us that the salvage plan is a provisional feature of the bestowal plan.

    186:5.9 The salvation of God for the mortals of Urantia would have been just as effective and unerringly certain if Jesus had not been put to death by the cruel hands of ignorant mortals. If the Master had been favorably received by the mortals of earth and had departed from Urantia by the voluntary relinquishment of his life in the flesh, the fact of the love of God and the mercy of the Son—the fact of sonship with God—would have in no wise been affected. You mortals are the sons of God, and only one thing is required to make such a truth factual in your personal experience, and that is your spirit-born faith.



    ~*~*~


    Acts 2:23-25”Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; “whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. “For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
    We might question if it was 'predetermined' or forcefully caused by God himself, the death of Jesus, but we could assume that in God's foreknowledge....all possibilities, probabilities and pontentials are known to God, - since God does know all that is knowable. The UB maintains that such a 'death' was not necessary to effect an atonement, since God's love is already fully existing and available to all his sons and daughters, and the life of Jesus, his revelation of God in the flesh, his manifesting the Father to us, was all that was essential, by the his bestowal(incarnation) of himself to us. - his gospel of the kingdom includes the revelation that God is our Father, and we are his children and this is enhanced and realized more by faith, the rebirth of the spirit thru the revelation. So,...no blood was needed by a God to merit or obtain for man, God's grace since such grace is ever available that he can access by faith.

    186:5.7 “Jesus is not about to die as a sacrifice for sin. He is not going to atone for the inborn moral guilt of the human race. Mankind has no such racial guilt before God. Guilt is purely a matter of personal sin and knowing, deliberate rebellion against the will of the Father and the administration of his Sons” (bold mine).

    Yes,...the narrative says Jesus was not just a sacrifice for sin, neither can the death of a person atone for the sins of another,...this is clearly taught in the OT, see Ezekiel for starters. Even blood of animals did not clean sins, they are only symbolic, there is no 'magic' in the blood, apart from some 'faith' of the worshipper or some spiritual transfer or psychic change within. It still holds as the prophets proclaim, and Jesus and his apostles taught,...."repent, for the kingdom of heaven is come near".

    I choose God, himself through his word:

    That might work in Sunday School,...but we've already addressed the belief and concept that 'God' wrote the bible personally as if guiding every single word of it,...a belief rather magnificient and mind-boggling, since the volume is by no means without errors, contradictions, variant readings and imperfections. - thats understandable for a collection of books written by different human authors amid varying agendas and copied translations, where some errors, glosses, ommissions, interpolations, redactions, etc. Hence my view that the book is inerrant, infallible is quite a 'stretch', and is unnecessary. This does not discount any inspiration, good or value in the Bible, of course not, it just recognizes its imperfection, limitations, human filtering. The UB recognizes and honors the truth, wisdom, good that has come down thru the Bible, and is still part of our religious heritage, as a particular 'dispensation'.

    This also goes for the UB, mind you, since the celestial authors so assumed used human knowledge of the times (20th century) to expand/expound upon in many areas, so these are somewhat limited to those conceptual frames, and its admitted in the science/cosmology given, that some info. will undergo updating and modification, as new science and discoveries unfold. The authors also admit in some places not knowings certain things and postulating on some things, so the UB does not claim infallibility or innerrancy. It represents a certain dispensation of knowledge/revelation proportionate to what was allowed during its transmission. It came thru human mediums, filtered thru human instruments more or less, so...it may bear some colouring and imperfections thereby. Such things are to be logically expected, and then again, any religious book or 'revelation' is to be weighed by its own value, meaning, quality, character and CONTENT.

    It would be a much better enterprise to take the good from every dispensation, and augment one's own religious philosophy and practice thereby, then to merely 'demonize' every thing that appears to be different, unorthodox or indifferent to one's own religion. Love integrates and includes all good synergistically, while fear divides, condemns and villifies. It might be for us to recognize love and wisdom at the fore, than merely a rigid or dogmatic theology that cramps one's spiritual freedom, rather than sets it free to value all truth, goodness and beauty wherever it is found.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    What a great post! : Thumb: I totally agree!
    Then you will be in a lot of trouble trying to live a Holy life without giving due respect to the sacrifice of Christ to make it legal to eat of the tree of life.

    Do not be taken in by all the long posts and human reasonings of Freelight.

    The truth is so simple that even a child can understand it but not Freelight and UB.

    ,....but what truly avails for a soul, is when they themselves sacrifice their own self, make their own 'at-one-ment' with God by total surrender to His will, and repent rightfully....this is WHAT AVAILS.
    It is not worth a hill of beans without the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and you have to lie to yourself and to the Lord that you are really accomplishing anything.

    Sin will hold its vice like grip on you no matter what you do by way of self sacrifice without the shed blood of Jesus Christ and your believing its worth and preaching it.

    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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