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Thread: The Late Great Urantia Revelation

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    1. THE UNIVERSE ATTITUDE OF THE FATHER


    4:1.1 For ages the inhabitants of Urantia have misunderstood the providence of God. There is a providence of divine outworking on your world, but it is not the childish, arbitrary, and material ministry many mortals have conceived it to be. The providence of God consists in the interlocking activities of the celestial beings and the divine spirits who, in accordance with cosmic law, unceasingly labor for the honor of God and for the spiritual advancement of his universe children.

    4:1.2 Can you not advance in your concept of God's dealing with man to that level where you recognize that the watchword of the universe is progress? Through long ages the human race has struggled to reach its present position. Throughout all these millenniums Providence has been working out the plan of progressive evolution. The two thoughts are not opposed in practice, only in man's mistaken concepts. Divine providence is never arrayed in opposition to true human progress, either temporal or spiritual. Providence is always consistent with the unchanging and perfect nature of the supreme Lawmaker.

    4:1.3 "God is faithful" and "all his commandments are just." "His faithfulness is established in the very skies." "Forever, O Lord, your word is settled in heaven. Your faithfulness is to all generations; you have established the earth and it abides." "He is a faithful Creator."

    4:1.4 There is no limitation of the forces and personalities which the Father may use to uphold his purpose and sustain his creatures. "The eternal God is our refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms." "He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty." "Behold, he who keeps us shall neither slumber nor sleep." "We know that all things work together for good to those who love God," "for the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers."

    4:1.5 God upholds "all things by the word of his power." And when new worlds are born, he "sends forth his Sons and they are created." God not only creates, but he "preserves them all." God constantly upholds all things material and all beings spiritual. The universes are eternally stable. There is stability in the midst of apparent instability. There is an underlying order and security in the midst of the energy upheavals and the physical cataclysms of the starry realms.

    4:1.6 The Universal Father has not withdrawn from the management of the universes; he is not an inactive Deity. If God should retire as the present upholder of all creation, there would immediately occur a universal collapse. Except for God, there would be no such thing as reality. At this very moment, as during the remote ages of the past and in the eternal future, God continues to uphold. The divine reach extends around the circle of eternity. The universe is not wound up like a clock to run just so long and then cease to function; all things are constantly being renewed. The Father unceasingly pours forth energy, light, and life. The work of God is literal as well as spiritual. "He stretches out the north over the empty space and hangs the earth upon nothing."

    4:1.7 A being of my order is able to discover ultimate harmony and to detect far-reaching and profound co- ordination in the routine affairs of universe administration. Much that seems disjointed and haphazard to the mortal mind appears orderly and constructive to my understanding. But there is very much going on in the universes that I do not fully comprehend. I have long been a student of, and am more or less conversant with, the recognized forces, energies, minds, morontias, spirits, and personalities of the local universes and the superuniverses. I have a general understanding of how these agencies and personalities operate, and I am intimately familiar with the workings of the accredited spirit intelligences of the grand universe. Notwithstanding my knowledge of the phenomena of the universes, I am constantly confronted with cosmic reactions which I cannot fully fathom. I am continually encountering apparently fortuitous conspiracies of the interassociation of forces, energies, intellects, and spirits, which I cannot satisfactorily explain.

    4:1.8 I am entirely competent to trace out and to analyze the working of all phenomena directly resulting from the functioning of the Universal Father, the Eternal Son, the Infinite Spirit, and, to a large extent, the Isle of Paradise. My perplexity is occasioned by encountering what appears to be the performance of their mysterious co-ordinates, the three Absolutes of potentiality. These Absolutes seem to supersede matter, to transcend mind, and to supervene spirit. I am constantly confused and often perplexed by my inability to comprehend these complex transactions which I attribute to the presences and performances of the Unqualified Absolute, the Deity Absolute, and the Universal Absolute.

    4:1.9 These Absolutes must be the not-fully-revealed presences abroad in the universe which, in the phenomena of space potency and in the function of other superultimates, render it impossible for physicists, philosophers, or even religionists to predict with certainty as to just how the primordials of force, concept, or spirit will respond to demands made in a complex reality situation involving supreme adjustments and ultimate values.

    4:1.10 There is also an organic unity in the universes of time and space which seems to underlie the whole fabric of cosmic events. This living presence of the evolving Supreme Being, this Immanence of the Projected Incomplete, is inexplicably manifested ever and anon by what appears to be an amazingly fortuitous co-ordination of apparently unrelated universe happenings. This must be the function of Providence—the realm of the Supreme Being and the Conjoint Actor.

    4:1.11 I am inclined to believe that it is this far-flung and generally unrecognizable control of the co- ordination and interassociation of all phases and forms of universe activity that causes such a variegated and apparently hopelessly confused medley of physical, mental, moral, and spiritual phenomena so unerringly to work out to the glory of God and for the good of men and angels.

    4:1.12 But in the larger sense the apparent "accidents" of the cosmos are undoubtedly a part of the finite drama of the time-space adventure of the Infinite in his eternal manipulation of the Absolutes." UB 1955

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    Post Absonite................

    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    PPS's friends read Urantia
    PPS has been adequately addressed here, as well as elsewhere - the philosophical, religious, spiritual statements and explanations in the UB stand on their own, just as any other writings or books on the subject, as each discourse is evaluated on the meanings and values it contains, - our approach to 'learning' is therefore a universal one, since 'God' is that infinite MIND and SPIRIT that is the source, life and energizer of all that exists. Therefore, since 'God' is the universal and infinite ONE, the First Source and Center of all reality,...of all potentials and possibilities, how could you limit 'God' to any one religious book, cult-ure, tradition, language or school of thought? Can you limit, define, describe or contain what is infinite? Does not the Infinite Spirit fill heaven and earth? Is not the Spirit of 'God' omnipresent, as well as infinite?

    ~*~*~

    { UB text below in navy blue, my commentary in black }

    1. GOD’S EVERYWHERENESS

    3:1.1 The ability of the Universal Father to be everywhere present, and at the same time, constitutes his omnipresence. God alone can be in two places, in numberless places, at the same time. God is simultaneously present “in heaven above and on the earth beneath”; as the Psalmist exclaimed: “Whither shall I go from your spirit? or whither shall I flee from your presence?”

    3:1.2 “`I am a God at hand as well as afar off,’ says the Lord. `Do not I fill heaven and earth?'” The Universal Father is all the time present in all parts and in all hearts of his far-flung creation. He is “the fullness of him who fills all and in all,” and “who works all in all,” and further, the concept of his personality is such that “the heaven universe and heaven of heavens (universe of universes) cannot contain him.” It is literally true that God is all and in all. But even that is not all of God. The Infinite can be finally revealed only in infinity; the cause can never be fully comprehended by an analysis of effects; the living God is immeasurably greater than the sum total of creation that has come into being as a result of the creative acts of his unfettered free will. God is revealed throughout the cosmos, but the cosmos can never contain or encompass the entirety of the infinity of God.



    ~*~*~


    1:3.5 God is a universal spirit; God is the universal person. The supreme personal reality of the finite creation is spirit; the ultimate reality of the personal cosmos is absonite* spirit. Only the levels of infinity are absolute, and only on such levels is there finality of oneness between matter, mind, and spirit.

    Below are some terms and their meanings unique to the UB :


    Absonite *

    'Absonite' as midway between absolute and finite. The absonite level of reality is characterized by things and beings without beginnings or endings and by the transcendence of time and space. Absonite beings are not created; they simply are. But because they are "things and beings," they have limits, or edges, and so are sub-infinite. See eventuate.

    Eventuate

    Simply, to be; not to be created, not to evolve, but simply to be. "You, being a creature... can hardly comprehend… intelligent beings who are neither Creators nor creatures." Certain things and beings "create no beings, neither were they ever created." They simply eventuate.



    ~*~*~


    Here we see that the 'absonite' is not created, but 'eventuated', and in describing various personalities in the cosmos, we see that class of 'transcendentalers' as being 'absonite' in nature -

    30:1.92 IV. EVENTUATED TRANSCENDENTAL BEINGS.

    There is to be found on Paradise a vast host of transcendental beings whose origin is not ordinarily disclosed to the universes of time and space until they are settled in light and life. These Transcendentalers are neither creators nor creatures; they are the eventuated children of divinity, ultimacy, and eternity. These “eventuators” are neither finite nor infinite—they are absonite; and absonity is neither infinity nor absoluteness.


    Furthermore we see that certain evolutional aspects of Deity 'eventuate', such as in the 'super-personality' of 'God', since the all-encompassing aspect of Deity as 'God the Supreme' includes/concludes the full space-time evolution/synthesis of all reality into Itself, and on this level of intersecting reality, the whole 'enventuates' into the manifold fullness of 'God' within the totality of creation. The 'absonite' features of the cosmos then are existential realities that while not having so called beginning or endings still appear to have their place in the unfolding and realization of life-potential as eventuals.

    30:1.99 God, as a superperson, eventuates; God, as a person, creates; God, as a preperson, fragments; and such an Adjuster fragment of himself evolves the spirit soul upon the material and mortal mind in accordance with the freewill choosing of the personality which has been bestowed upon such a mortal creature by the parental act of God as a Father.

    All 73 references to 'absonite' here.

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    Lightbulb The attitude of the Fathering Soul of creation..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Caino View Post

    1. THE UNIVERSE ATTITUDE OF THE FATHER


    4:1.1 For ages the inhabitants of Urantia have misunderstood the providence of God. There is a providence of divine outworking on your world, but it is not the childish, arbitrary, and material ministry many mortals have conceived it to be. The providence of God consists in the interlocking activities of the celestial beings and the divine spirits who, in accordance with cosmic law, unceasingly labor for the honor of God and for the spiritual advancement of his universe children.

    4:1.2 Can you not advance in your concept of God's dealing with man to that level where you recognize that the watchword of the universe is progress? Through long ages the human race has struggled to reach its present position. Throughout all these millenniums Providence has been working out the plan of progressive evolution. The two thoughts are not opposed in practice, only in man's mistaken concepts. Divine providence is never arrayed in opposition to true human progress, either temporal or spiritual. Providence is always consistent with the unchanging and perfect nature of the supreme Lawmaker.

    Here we see intrinsic to life itself is the creative impulse of creation, whose inter-acting and relating sequence is 'progressive evolution'. Since Creation itself is evolving along the lines of universal law and purpose, the Creator (and co-creators), and creation itself, share in a synthesis of transformation, so that the evolving total is ever being enhanced, augmented by the unending concert of unfolding potentials, nuanced by those conditional factors which affect how those 'actualize'.

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    Lightbulb Creator Sons who go forth from Paradise.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Caino View Post

    1. THE UNIVERSE ATTITUDE OF THE FATHER



    4:1.3 "God is faithful" and "all his commandments are just." "His faithfulness is established in the very skies." "Forever, O Lord, your word is settled in heaven. Your faithfulness is to all generations; you have established the earth and it abides." "He is a faithful Creator."

    4:1.4 There is no limitation of the forces and personalities which the Father may use to uphold his purpose and sustain his creatures. "The eternal God is our refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms." "He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty." "Behold, he who keeps us shall neither slumber nor sleep." "We know that all things work together for good to those who love God," "for the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers."

    4:1.5 God upholds "all things by the word of his power." And when new worlds are born, he "sends forth his Sons and they are created." God not only creates, but he "preserves them all." God constantly upholds all things material and all beings spiritual. The universes are eternally stable. There is stability in the midst of apparent instability. There is an underlying order and security in the midst of the energy upheavals and the physical cataclysms of the starry realms.

    We note here, the creating of the worlds of space and time, are brought forth thru the 'Creator-Sons' of God, and these Sons become the sponsors, representatives and actual administrators, lords and Saviors of their respective worlds, and so with the dawning of new worlds evolving along their own special lines of progressive evolution, all worlds strive towards perfection to enter into an 'Era of light and life'. This New Era represents a world so elavated and evolved spiritually, that it is 'settled' as it were in the divine life stream. Being 'settled in light and life' is the aspiration of all evolutionary worlds of time, whereby souls draw closer to divine perfection in love, and so secure their ascension in God.

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    “By the old way you seek to suppress, obey, and conform to the rules of living; by the new way you are first transformed by the Spirit of Truth and thereby strengthened in your inner soul by the constant spiritual renewing of your mind, and so are you endowed with the power of the certain and joyous performance of the gracious, acceptable, and perfect will of God. Forget not — it is your personal faith in the exceedingly great and precious promises of God that ensures your becoming partakers of the divine nature. Thus by your faith and the spirit’s transformation, you become in reality the temples of God, and his spirit actually dwells within you. If, then, the spirit dwells within you, you are no longer bondslaves of the flesh but free and liberated sons of the spirit. The new law of the spirit endows you with the liberty of self-mastery in place of the old law of the fear of self-bondage and the slavery of self-denial."

    Jesus of the UB

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    "The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus' death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice—mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master's love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

    188:5.3 Jesus, by the power of his personal love for men, could break the hold of sin and evil. He thereby set men free to choose better ways of living. Jesus portrayed a deliverance from the past which in itself promised a triumph for the future. Forgiveness thus provided salvation. The beauty of divine love, once fully admitted to the human heart, forever destroys the charm of sin and the power of evil.

    188:5.4 The sufferings of Jesus were not confined to the crucifixion. In reality, Jesus of Nazareth spent upward of twenty-five years on the cross of a real and intense mortal existence. The real value of the cross consists in the fact that it was the supreme and final expression of his love, the completed revelation of his mercy."

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Post The Faith of Jesus......

    Quote Originally Posted by Caino View Post


    "The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus' death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice—mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master's love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

    188:5.3 Jesus, by the power of his personal love for men, could break the hold of sin and evil. He thereby set men free to choose better ways of living. Jesus portrayed a deliverance from the past which in itself promised a triumph for the future. Forgiveness thus provided salvation. The beauty of divine love, once fully admitted to the human heart, forever destroys the charm of sin and the power of evil.

    188:5.4 The sufferings of Jesus were not confined to the crucifixion. In reality, Jesus of Nazareth spent upward of twenty-five years on the cross of a real and intense mortal existence. The real value of the cross consists in the fact that it was the supreme and final expression of his love, the completed revelation of his mercy."
    A wonderful presentation of the symbolism behind the 'cross', which moves beyond primitive concepts of 'blood atonement ritual' and into the heart of sacrificial love that gives its own soul-life in service of the Spirit

    The final paper among the Urantia Papers is Paper 196 - The Faith of Jesus. For those really wondering what the papers speak of Jesus as an essential summation and synopsis of his personality, this final paper holds to its own testimony. This final Paper on Jesus is especially addressed to modern day Christians, both in the 20th century and in our current 21st century, continuing on for centuries to come.



    The text here.

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    Ancient Hominin Skull From China Suggests Humans Didn't Evolve Just From African Ancestors


    http://www.newsweek.com/archaeology-...s-human-710973



    Urantia Book (revelation) 1911-1955


    "79:0.1 ASIA IS THE homeland of the human race. It was on a southern peninsula of this continent that Andon and Fonta were born; in the highlands of what is now Afghanistan, their descendant Badonan founded a primitive center of culture that persisted for over one-half million years. Here at this eastern focus of the human race the Sangik peoples differentiated from the Andonic stock, and Asia was their first home, their first hunting ground, their first battlefield. Southwestern Asia witnessed the successive civilizations of Dalamatians, Nodites, Adamites, and Andites, and from these regions the potentials of modern civilization spread to the world."


    5. THE FIRST HUMAN BEINGS


    62:5.1 From the year A.D. 1934 back to the birth of the first two human beings is just 993,419 years.

    62:5.2 These two remarkable creatures were true human beings. They possessed perfect human thumbs, as had many of their ancestors, while they had just as perfect feet as the present-day human races. They were walkers and runners, not climbers; the grasping function of the big toe was absent, completely absent. When danger drove them to the treetops, they climbed just like the humans of today would. They would climb up the trunk of a tree like a bear and not as would a chimpanzee or a gorilla, swinging up by the branches.


    62:5.3 These first human beings (and their descendants) reached full maturity at twelve years of age and possessed a potential life span of about seventy-five years.


    62:5.4 Many new emotions early appeared in these human twins. They experienced admiration for both objects and other beings and exhibited considerable vanity. But the most remarkable advance in emotional development was the sudden appearance of a new group of really human feelings, the worshipful group, embracing awe, reverence, humility, and even a primitive form of gratitude. Fear, joined with ignorance of natural phenomena, is about to give birth to primitive religion.


    62:5.5 Not only were such human feelings manifested in these primitive humans, but many more highly evolved sentiments were also present in rudimentary form. They were mildly cognizant of pity, shame, and reproach and were acutely conscious of love, hate, and revenge, being also susceptible to marked feelings of jealousy.


    62:5.6 These first two humans—the twins—were a great trial to their Primates parents. They were so curious and adventurous that they nearly lost their lives on numerous occasions before they were eight years old. As it was, they were rather well scarred up by the time they were twelve.


    62:5.7 Very early they learned to engage in verbal communication; by the age of ten they had worked out an improved sign and word language of almost half a hundred ideas and had greatly improved and expanded the crude communicative technique of their ancestors. But try as hard as they might, they were able to teach only a few of their new signs and symbols to their parents.


    62:5.8 When about nine years of age, they journeyed off down the river one bright day and held a momentous conference. Every celestial intelligence stationed on Urantia, including myself, was present as an observer of the transactions of this noontide tryst. On this eventful day they arrived at an understanding to live with and for each other, and this was the first of a series of such agreements which finally culminated in the decision to flee from their inferior animal associates and to journey northward, little knowing that they were thus to found the human race.


    62:5.9 While we were all greatly concerned with what these two little savages were planning, we were powerless to control the working of their minds; we did not—could not—arbitrarily influence their decisions. But within the permissible limits of planetary function, we, the Life Carriers, together with our associates, all conspired to lead the human twins northward and far from their hairy and partially tree-dwelling people. And so, by reason of their own intelligent choice, the twins did migrate, and because of our supervision they migrated northward to a secluded region where they escaped the possibility of biologic degradation through admixture with their inferior relatives of the Primates tribes.


    62:5.10 Shortly before their departure from the home forests they lost their mother in a gibbon raid. While she did not possess their intelligence, she did have a worthy mammalian affection of a high order for her offspring, and she fearlessly gave her life in the attempt to save the wonderful pair. Nor was her sacrifice in vain, for she held off the enemy until the father arrived with reinforcements and put the invaders to rout.


    62:5.11 Soon after this young couple forsook their associates to found the human race, their Primates father became disconsolate—he was heartbroken. He refused to eat, even when food was brought to him by his other children. His brilliant offspring having been lost, life did not seem worth living among his ordinary fellows; so he wandered off into the forest, was set upon by hostile gibbons and beaten to death."

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    141:4.2 In answer to Thomas's question, “Who is this God of the kingdom?” Jesus replied: “God is your Father, and religion —my gospel—is nothing more nor less than the believing recognition of the truth that you are his son. And I am here among you in the flesh to make clear both of these ideas in my life and teachings.”

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caino View Post
    141:4.2 In answer to Thomas's question, “Who is this God of the kingdom?” Jesus replied: “God is your Father, and religion —my gospel—is nothing more nor less than the believing recognition of the truth that you are his son. And I am here among you in the flesh to make clear both of these ideas in my life and teachings.”
    You're taking the Lord Jesus's name in vain in saying this. The believing recognition is of the central truth of the Christian faith, which is that He the Lord Jesus is risen from the dead, verses 6, 6, 6, from chapters 28, 16, and 24, in the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

    Mt28:6
    Mk16:6
    Lk24:6
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    You're taking the Lord Jesus's name in vain in saying this. The believing recognition is of the central truth of the Christian faith, which is that He the Lord Jesus is risen from the dead, verses 6, 6, 6, from chapters 28, 16, and 24, in the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

    Mt28:6
    Mk16:6
    Lk24:6
    There was a gospel that Jesus lived, taught and preached before the cross. That gospel was not "Christ and him crucified", obveously, because Jesus was trying to enlist the Jews to his religion. Had the Jews been largely converted to the religion of Jesus, they would be living, teaching and preaching the original gospel today from Jerusalem.

    Jesus and his original, pre-cross gospel was soundly rejected by the Jews.

    After the tragic rejection, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension, a NEW gospel, a new religion about Jesus and about the cross developed.

    Christianity is a shadow of the original.

    Eventually we will return to the original.

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Lightbulb Question your assumptions..............

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    You're taking the Lord Jesus's name in vain in saying this. The believing recognition is of the central truth of the Christian faith, which is that He the Lord Jesus is risen from the dead, verses 6, 6, 6, from chapters 28, 16, and 24, in the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

    Mt28:6
    Mk16:6
    Lk24:6
    The sayings of Jesus in the UB, hold just as much value and meaning if not in other ways or nuances than the gospels themselves, since they are but 'religious narrative' and 'allegorical' on many levels, and do NOT claim to be actual biographies....or even actual record of personal eyewitnesses....we dont even know WHO wrote the gospels, as any name or tradition can be associated with any book, and any 'assumption' made (many books were just given a well known name to give it some kind of credential). So,....just because you believe one bible (collection of books or papers) is authentic, does NOT necessarily make it so, as many different methods or 'criteria' can be applied to 'prove' or 'disprove' authenticity. My current studies in the historical or mythical Christ perspectives show this much, without going deeper into it. More to come on such points.

    Again, the simple truth that Jesus saying his 'gospel' is about the revelation that we are all children of God, and that God is our Father, is fundamental, relationally speaking, concerning our actual relationship with DEITY. The NT narrative and focus of Paul's gospel on the 'crucifixion' is merely Paul's emphasis,....a concept that h got by what he claims 'personal revelation' and what he assumed is found in the 'scriptures', but little exists in the OT about Jesus having to die and be raised the 3rd day, as Paul claims,...but if you look with a fine tooth comb, you can maybe find ALLEGORIES of 'Christ crucified' in the OT, but again...its all allegorical, esoterically hidden.

    Paul's whole gospel is his own 'experience' according to a voice and light which he assumed to be the ascended Jesus, and that is all,....and some cryptic interpretation from the so called 'scriptures' (Paul even quotes a few verses that are not found in any extant scriptures that we know, showing other records may have existed that are now lost). Later gospel narratives may be been attempts to historicize the 'celestial Jesus' of Paul's teaching, to make it palpable to the masses. How much of the gospels are embellished or just patchwork quilt? Hence the probability of some of the gospels being religious fiction. This might also cause one to look at the UB account with raised eyebrows, since it vouches for the authenticity and historicity of Jesus and much of the NT record (with some errors), although current research shows that the 'Mythicist' view of Jesus is also a possibility. See my reading of Lataster's book on Jesus existence here. Richard Carrier's book on the Historicity of Jesus is also interesting, making some waves in Academia. - I havent read it yet.

    So,....the fundamental truth of our relationship with God as it actually exists and its POTENTIAL, the soul's potential for immortality is the most important truth at hand
    (which the UB goes into great depth and detail), not so much the details of Jesus death, burial, resurrection, etc....although these are part of the Son of Man's mortal experience, which have their own teaching lessons and implications of course. Therefore your charge for 'taking the Lord Jesus name in vain' is groundless, if not presumptuous, based on so many presuppositions
    So what if God raised Jesus from the dead,....that is an important focal point in the NT of course, and in Paul's gospel,....but if you're a theist and a spiritualist at the least....you believe souls after they die...are RAISED from their physical bodies as spirits,...and enter the spirit world...and that is the first resurrection, so to speak, one that all souls undergo. Furthermore, a 'resurrection' also may refer to our spiritual transformation or ascension into a higher realm or quality of existence, so the language is 'figurative', as is the case with most language anyways.

    What really matters is how one is relating to and experiencing the presence and will of Deity in their daily lives and those choices being made which determine eternal destiny or whether a soul attains immortality, in the service of the higher ONE. It could be questioned what a mere belief in a risen Jesus even gives one, since a mere intellectual acceptance that God raised Jesus from the dead by some miraculous means, may not necessarily produce some kind of inward transformation or change of heart, unless WITH such a belief or confession....some real transformation or processs of salvation/illumination within the soul has actually TRANSPIRED, to effect anything of lasting or eternal value.

    Therefore, this thread attests to the entire question of man's relationship with 'God', whether you hold to a biblical context on its assumed authority or tradition, or within a greater cosmological context of the UB, as the lastest epochal revelation to the planet. It is what can be communicated in the books or papers given that counts, as to their deeper meaning and value, as the soul translates and interprets the texts by help of the Spirit.

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    UB,
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    196:0.5 "Theology may fix, formulate, define, and dogmatize faith, but in the human life of Jesus faith was personal, living, original, spontaneous, and purely spiritual. This faith was not reverence for tradition nor a mere intellectual belief which he held as a sacred creed, but rather a sublime experience and a profound conviction which securely held him. His faith was so real and all- encompassing that it absolutely swept away any spiritual doubts and effectively destroyed every conflicting desire. Nothing was able to tear him away from the spiritual anchorage of this fervent, sublime, and undaunted faith. Even in the face of apparent defeat or in the throes of disappointment and threatening despair, he calmly stood in the divine presence free from fear and fully conscious of spiritual invincibility. Jesus enjoyed the invigorating assurance of the possession of unflinching faith, and in each of life’s trying situations he unfailingly exhibited an unquestioning loyalty to the Father’s will. And this superb faith was undaunted even by the cruel and crushing threat of an ignominious death."

    "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

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    Lightbulb 'faith' is the subject and impetus of the soul......................

    Quote Originally Posted by Caino View Post
    196:0.5 "Theology may fix, formulate, define, and dogmatize faith, but in the human life of Jesus faith was personal, living, original, spontaneous, and purely spiritual. This faith was not reverence for tradition nor a mere intellectual belief which he held as a sacred creed, but rather a sublime experience and a profound conviction which securely held him. His faith was so real and all- encompassing that it absolutely swept away any spiritual doubts and effectively destroyed every conflicting desire. Nothing was able to tear him away from the spiritual anchorage of this fervent, sublime, and undaunted faith. Even in the face of apparent defeat or in the throes of disappointment and threatening despair, he calmly stood in the divine presence free from fear and fully conscious of spiritual invincibility. Jesus enjoyed the invigorating assurance of the possession of unflinching faith, and in each of life’s trying situations he unfailingly exhibited an unquestioning loyalty to the Father’s will. And this superb faith was undaunted even by the cruel and crushing threat of an ignominious death."
    As we've shown in the very last paper of this epochal revelation, the 'Faith of Jesus' here, this revelation or expansion on the 'faith of Jesus' ought to be of fundamental import to any believer in Jesus. The faith of Jesus is central to the whole relationahip of man and God (existentially and experientialized realized in the person of Jesus and subsequently all mortal souls evolving towards immortality status). The papers expound exponentially upon this central theme, so their meaning and value exists for those who discover such in their own study.

    My former post 'Question your assumptions' still holds, as for my own research, it matters not at this point if Jesus is a mythical character or an actual personality that incarnated on earth at some point in time, as 'evidence' for either has various supports as well as room for 'doubt' given whatever criteria is presented to verify or deem such 'probable'. What does exist is some character named Jesus whose claims and teachings, as recorded, stands on its own merit, as to any meaning or value derived therefrom, while the greater 'theology' or 'Christology' FORMED around or upon his person is 'incidental' and only 'relationally relevant' IF some framework of religious meaning and spiritual value can be accorded thereform. And that folks is all you got, beyond all the interpretations intra and super-imposed upon the template

    With that, any book or collection of books (call such tomes 'bibles' if you wish) is just as good as any other, - its the meaning and values derived from the given texts and how they are applied that matters. You cant even prove 'God' or 'gods' exists except in your own mind,....and still...whatever label you slap upon yourself, you still reap what you sow, and every 'tree' is known by its fruit, so goes the universal laws of existence, ....'karma' is still working as the unviersal lever behind all actions and their consequences, while 'free will' is at the heart of individual experience as far as choices go.

    I challenge those in theological 'grid-lock' to look outside the box, since the box they've put 'God' in, is the same 'box' they limit themselves to, since there is no real seperation between the soul and God, except for what is imposed, chosen or imagined which results in one's own experience of life or death, light or darkness, suffering or joy. Its all 'alphabet soup' at the end of the day, and you must ultimately enjoy the shade of your own tree (your own revelation, awakening to tuth, work), and reap the harvest of your own planting, here and in eternity.

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