Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

Dartman said:

John's vision covers from about 90AD to the 2nd coming of Jesus, on throughout Jesus' reign, and then to infinity.

Click to expand...

John wrote the Revelation before 70AD.

It's preposterous to think that the total destruction of Jerusalem, along with the temple, wouldn't have even been mentioned by John, had he wrote it after 70AD.

There is nothing to tie the scroll in Dan 12 to the book of prophecy in Revelation.

Click to expand...

You posted a prophecy from Revelation alongside a prophecy from Daniel.

Do they both discuss the future? Yes.

Click to expand...

Not our future.

Everything written in Daniel was fulfilled by 70AD.

Does the commandment given to Daniel regarding sealing the scroll have the slightest bearing on when the prophecies are fulfilled in Revelation?

Click to expand...

That wasn't the point. The point was the 500 years and 2,000 years.

John was told not to seal his scroll because the time was near. John also said the following:

(Rev 1:1) The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Right Divider said:

Indeed, it's hard to tell when you attempt to intersperse your lame idea that a single verse of "figurative prophecy" is mixed in with ALL of those LITERAL references.

:dizzy:

Click to expand...

And, according to Tet, the Holy Spirit only works part-time

Right Divider said:

Indeed, it's hard to tell when you attempt to intersperse your lame idea that a single verse of "figurative prophecy" is mixed in with ALL of those LITERAL references.

:dizzy:

Click to expand...

Jesus used the phrase "living water", and then said He was referring to what was written in scripture.

Zech 14 is the only prophecy about "living water".

Therefore, that has to be the prophecy Jesus was referring to.

AND, it makes sense, the Holy Spirit was given in Jerusalem, and those who received it left Jerusalem, and preached the gospel.

IOW, the "living water" flowed out of Jerusalem.

Right Divider said:

And, according to Tet, the Holy Spirit only works part-time

Zec 14:8 KJV​

(8) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.​

Click to expand...

(Gen 8:22) As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night will never cease."

Still waiting for you to tell us how water flows uphill?

tetelestai said:

(Gen 8:22) As long as the earth endures, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night will never cease."

Still waiting for you to tell us how water flows uphill?

Click to expand...

There are many scriptures that Jesus could have been referring to. Also, it does NOT need to be a single verse.
Once again, it up to you to provide PROOF that Jesus is referring to the SPECIFIC verse that you claim. You are using "dictionary theology".

clefty said:

Ok it’s like this...jews worship their god WHO HAD NO SON...what part of that is too difficult...

Click to expand...

There is one God, the God of the Jews, who had a Son.

Jews worship a god who did not send a messiah yet...

Click to expand...

No. We have our Messiah. Yeshua.

Jews dont want salvation from sin but to heal the world...

Click to expand...

No.

There start with that...

Click to expand...

Okay. Did.

Just like muslims claim they worship the SAME GOD as Abraham but Abraham’s...God had a SON...muslims REJECT THAT...therefore they worship a different god...

Click to expand...

Okay. Accept the Messiah. What is the name of the God of the Muslims? The God of the Jews is YHVH the God of Christians.

Christians worship a God who had an only begotten Son...

Click to expand...

Correct.

That Son came to this world and became flesh...jewish flesh and thus of Israel/Jacob...you do understand that all OT jews were israel but not all israel were jews...yes?

Click to expand...

Not necessary but potentially a good point.

This Son came to free people NOT of politics and rule but SIN...

Click to expand...

Correct.

So you cant be jewish and goyim IN HIM...is why jews HATE Him...because of Him goyim crowded their synagogues to hear moses every Sabbath and to hear of One resurrected...and how and why He did...that is the gospel jews HATE

Click to expand...

No. I don't hate the gospel at all.

Right Divider said:

There are many scriptures that Jesus could have been referring to. Also, it does NOT need to be a single verse.

Isa 44:1-5 KJV​

(1) Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:​

(2) Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.​

(3) For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:​

(4) And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses.​

(5) One shall say, I am the LORD'S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel.

​

Isa 12:2-3 KJV​

(2) Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.​

(3) Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.​

Isa 58:9-12 KJV​

(9) Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;​

(10) And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:​

(11) And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.​

(12) And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.​

Once again, it up to you to provide PROOF that Jesus is referring to the SPECIFIC verse that you claim. You are using "dictionary theology".

Click to expand...

Nice try, but not one of those prophecies mentions "Living Water".

You yourself, said earlier, that "living water" was different than regular water.

tetelestai said:

Nice try, but not one of those prophecies mentions "Living Water".

Click to expand...

Once again, you are a "dictionary theologian".

tetelestai said:

You yourself, said earlier, that "living water" was different than regular water.

Click to expand...

I said that the "living WATERS" of Zechariah is water and not a reference to the Holy Spirit.

Right Divider said:

Once again, you are a "dictionary theologian".

Click to expand...

Here is the passage:

(John 7:37-38) On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them

John then goes on to explain that Jesus was talking about the Holy Spirit when He referred to "living water".

Now, look at verse 37. It was the last day of the Feast of Tabernacles that this event occurred.

What do we find in Zech 14? Answer: The Feast of Tabernacles. The Feast of Tabernacles is mentioned three times in Zech 14.

What did the priests do each day of the Feast of Tabernacles? Answer: Every day, the priests would go down to the Pool of Shiloach, which was fed by the Gihon Spring (Remember the Gihon Spring?) At the pool of natural running water that came from the Gihon Spring, they would fill a golden flask with water, and take it back to the temple. They would then pour it on the morning's sacrifice.

What scripture did the Jews read on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles? Answer: Zech 14 (because it was about the Feast of Tabernacles).

These events were not some sort of coincidence.

"The Feast of Tabernacles is a joyous holiday that consists of building a Sukkah (booth or tabernacle - any sort of temporary shelter) and living in the Sukkah as one would a normal home. The Feast of Tabernacles begins on the evening of October 8th this year into October 9th. The Bible readings for this special holiday are as follows:

Torah Reading: Leviticus 22:26 - 23:44; Numbers 29:12-16

Haftarah: Zechariah 14; 1Kings 8:2-21; Nehemiah 8:13-18"

Notice the Haftarah for the Feast of Tabernacles is Zechariah 14

What is Haftarah?

Answer:

"HAFTARAH (Heb. הַפְטָרָה), a portion from the Prophets read after the reading from the Torah (see Torah , Reading of) on Sabbaths, festivals, and fast days."

So, when Jesus was at the Feast of Tabernacles in John 7, Zechariah 14 had been read allowed by the priests.

Jesus was clearly referring to Zech 14 when He said what He said about "living water" in John 7

The Apostle's question to the Lord Jesus in the Olivet dicourse was in regard to what would happen at the end of the age:

Earlier the Lord Jesus told us what will happen at the "end of the age":


Here we can see that the Lord Jesus speaks of a harvest that will happen at the "end of the age." He also makes it clear that the harvest will take place in the field, and He says that the "field is the world."

This passage alone destroys the teaching of the Preterists who assert that the "end of the age" happened in Jerusalem and Judea in 70 AD because there was no world wide harvest that happened in that year or anytime since.

tetelestai said:

John wrote the Revelation before 70AD.

Click to expand...

Your proof?
John wasn't on the isle of Patmos until about 90AD.

tertelestai said:

It's preposterous to think that the total destruction of Jerusalem, along with the temple, wouldn't have even been mentioned by John, had he wrote it after 70AD.

Click to expand...

No, it's not.

tertelestai said:

You posted a prophecy from Revelation alongside a prophecy from Daniel.

Click to expand...

Of course, they are discussing the same event, as proven by the descriptions in each text. Your examples were only similar .... not discussions of the same event.

Jerry Shugart said:

The Apostle's question to the Lord Jesus in the Olivet dicourse was in regard to what would happen at the end of the age:

​

Click to expand...

Jerry Shugart said:

Earlier the Lord Jesus told us what will happen at the "end of the age":

"Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, 'Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.' He answered, 'The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 'As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Mt. 13:36-43).​

Here we can see that the Lord Jesus speaks of a harvest that will happen at the "end of the age." He also makes it clear that the harvest will take place in the field, and He says that the "field is the world."

This passage alone destroys the teaching of the Preterists who assert that the "end of the age" happened in Jerusalem and Judea in 70 AD because there was no world wide harvest that happened in that year or anytime since.

Click to expand...

True!

Dartman said:

Not quite. Jesus leaves heaven ... permanently .... comes to the "air" of the earth, resurrects the dead righteous to immortality, and changes the living righteous from mortal to immortal, then BOTH the resurrected, and the changed are "caught up together" to meet Jesus in the air. From there they ALL continue to the earth, conquer the planet, set up Jehovah's kingdom with Jesus as King over ALL the kingdoms of the earth, and THEN .... Jesus builds the temple;

Zech 6:12-13 and speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh Jehovah of hosts, saying, Behold, the man whose name is the Branch: and he shall grow up out of his place; and he shall build the temple of Jehovah;
13 even he shall build the temple of Jehovah; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne; and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Click to expand...

oh my ok...lost you at Jesus leaves heaven permanently...and something about immortality...and coming to conquer...sounds dispenSENSATIONAL...

And oh...we were never immortal not even created that way but dependent on the tree of Life...which we lost access to...had we been immortal being banned from the garden would be no big thing...ya dig?

A desire to be immortal seduced them to begin with...”you will not die”

And useful for a church to collect monies for those poor immortals locked in purgatory...

We will also not become immortal but PUT ON immortality like a coat...is why in the New Earth the tree of life is available again for the healing of ALL NATIONS...

Yup that New Jerusalem with His throne FINALLY comes down...on earth as it is in heaven...crushing any man made construct in its path...

But oh well so much more to discuss at some later point...

It would appear I disagree with you on this. Heb 4:9 is talking about the kingdom on the earth, with Israel as "the chief of all the nations", and Jesus reigning in peace for 1,000 years.

There is no requirement to keep the sabbath, since it is a commandment exclusively to Israel DURING the Mosaic Law. They were ripped out of that land, and remained exiles on the earth for about 1800 years. Their recovery has just barely started.

Click to expand...

Oh my...you got all that from ‘There remains therefore a Sabbatismos for the people of Yah”?

Sabbath was given to WHOSOEVER left egypt with them...the only commandment to list strangers as included in its keeping...the IRONY

The Lord of the Sabbath made it quite clear that Sabbath was given to MAN not just jews...

I guess no murder no stealing no coveting no LYING etc was just given to Isreal during the Mosiac Law too...lol

Lord of the Sabbath instructed prayers be said that the Sabbath be kept LONG AFTER the death burial resurrection and ascension even...you know during that future time of trouble...obviously He knew winters would continue too...

Oh and James concluded the Jerusalem council crises with the understanding that crowding goyim would hear Moses read to them NOT SUNDAYS but every Sabbath...in every city...

Oh and Isaiah concludes that from Sabbath to Sabbath ALL shall worship in the future New heavens and the new earth...

Your creator rested after six days of creation...He could have done it in 3 or 1 but chose six...there is a reason...He also modelled this rest and refreshment PRIOR the fall...imagine what GRACE that became AFTER the fall and curses when man then had to toil by the sweat of his brow...

We were created in His image...that does NOT mean just what He looks like but how He is and what He does...

Please list which commandment was NOT followed prior the fall...

Sabbath was the pre fall default...we would still be keeping it had we not fallen...

So that’s what I get from Heb 4:9 that sabbath keeping remains for His people...so enter His seventh day rest...even as He did and rest from works as He did from His...be diligent even to enter that rest lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience as those did following Joshua...

After all it ends with “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua”

Both of these the commandments and the faith of include Sabbath keeping...

Follow me...He said...

Jerry Shugart said:

The Apostle's question to the Lord Jesus in the Olivet dicourse was in regard to what would happen at the end of the age:

"'Tell us,' they said, 'when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?'" (Mt.24:3).​

Click to expand...

Keep reading chp 24:

(Matt 24:34) Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

so it will be at the end of the age[/B]. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

Click to expand...

Hey Jerry, the above passage, verse 41 shows that the kingdom already exists on earth before Jesus returns.

How is that possible Jerry?

Dartman said:

Your proof?

Click to expand...

The Revelation describes the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD as a future event that was soon to take place. It couldn't have been written after the event happened.

John wasn't on the isle of Patmos until about 90AD.

Click to expand...

You have no way of proving that claim.

No, it's not.

Click to expand...

Ya, that's right......sigh....Jerusalem and the temple are hardly ever mentioned in the New Testament....sigh... No big deal that they were wiped off the face of the earth, and over 1 million Jews killed...sigh.

That wouldn't be worth mentioning....sigh....

Jerry Shugart said:

This passage alone destroys the teaching of the Preterists who assert that the "end of the age" happened in Jerusalem and Judea in 70 AD because there was no world wide harvest that happened in that year or anytime since.

Click to expand...

The "end of the age" was the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD.

In Revelation, John said the harvest would be when Babylon "the city that crucified the Lord" was judged.

Jerusalem (Babylon) was judged in 70AD.

tetelestai said:

The "end of the age" was the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD.

In Revelation, John said the harvest would be when Babylon "the city that crucified the Lord" was judged.

Jerusalem (Babylon) was judged in 70AD.

Click to expand...

All you do is to deny the words of the Lord Jesus who said that at the end of the age there will be a harvest and "the field is the world."

To your distorted thinking Jerusalem is the "world."

tetelestai said:

Hey Jerry, the above passage, verse 41 shows that the kingdom already exists on earth before Jesus returns.

How is that possible Jerry?

Click to expand...

You confuse the Universal Kingdom (Ps.103:19) with the Messianic kingdom. Only those who are born again can enter the Messianic kingdom (Jn.3:3,5).

Jerry Shugart said:

You confuse the Universal Kingdom (Ps.103:19) with the Messianic kingdom. Only those who are born again can enter the Messianic kingdom (Jn.3:3,5).

Click to expand...

Which kingdom is verse 41 referring to?